BWFC Squad 20'-21'

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:44 pm

Barnettos article points out 3 of the 4 who went up had young keepers last year. Did not know that. Fact is I know nowt about league two - trust in Evatt I guess, but I wouldn’t mind an older head at least pushing Crellin...maybe that’s Gilkes but he hasn’t had any game time in pre season which would suggest it isn’t.

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by GhostoftheBok » Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:17 pm

There's nothing necessarily wrong with having a young keeper in League Two, or anywhere else; but I don't think it's as easy as saying Palmer, Benda and Jaaskelainen were also youngsters. Palmer isn't actually that young, for a start, at 24. He and Benda couldn't break into teams at a higher level and with much better keepers than Fleetwood. They've also both had top level footballing educations. Will has been brought through at Crewe and has made the grade there after we released him, so he's shown himself able to get first team football at his home club.

I think there's a difference between relying on a 20-year-old on loan from Fleetwood and the examples of promoted clubs last season.

Again, that doesn't mean he won't do well for us; but it looks more like a "that'll do" than "we have to get him" deal. He will learn on the job. The only issue is that if he does well he's someone else's player. I do, however, agree with the idea that it's better than getting in a 34-year-old we know is dross. Being crap isn't better if you're old and crap.

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:25 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:34 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:16 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 3:52 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 2:06 pm
It’s the keeper that worries me. Would prefer a more experienced number one.
I'd rather have the best keeper we can get regardless of age.
That doesn't answer Dibble's concern at all. As it happens, it's one I share.
I guess without seeing the lad play or anyone else its all guesswork. But a 38 year old keeper making mistakes is same as a 23 year old one. Experience is relevant but not if you're no good. And I'd say we just need to trust in what we're trying to do. We had Remi who was a great shotstopper but prone to error - I think we're fishing in a pool where you have to either go for promise or dodgy experience in the main....
Oh indeed. I'm old enough to remember Mervyn Day - A brilliant youngster who actually got worse with age. However, we seem to have both ends of the age spectrum covered by keeper's who I'm, to date, less than enthralled by. I do hope to be proven wrong, of course. ;)
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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:31 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:25 pm
Oh indeed. I'm old enough to remember Mervyn Day - A brilliant youngster who actually got worse with age. However, we seem to have both ends of the age spectrum covered by keeper's who I'm, to date, less than enthralled by. I do hope to be proven wrong, of course. ;)
Oh I dunno - I've been enjoying The Big Match Revisited on ITV37 and the other night, in the process of letting in a 40-yard lob, he managed to actually reduce his height :mrgreen:

(start at 1.44)

There was one game West Ham played at Sunderland which was a start-to-finish clownshow - obviously I enjoyed that, and not just because it's nice to see it's not just us... :D

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:38 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:17 pm
There's nothing necessarily wrong with having a young keeper in League Two, or anywhere else; but I don't think it's as easy as saying Palmer, Benda and Jaaskelainen were also youngsters. Palmer isn't actually that young, for a start, at 24. He and Benda couldn't break into teams at a higher level and with much better keepers than Fleetwood. They've also both had top level footballing educations. Will has been brought through at Crewe and has made the grade there after we released him, so he's shown himself able to get first team football at his home club.

I think there's a difference between relying on a 20-year-old on loan from Fleetwood and the examples of promoted clubs last season.

Again, that doesn't mean he won't do well for us; but it looks more like a "that'll do" than "we have to get him" deal. He will learn on the job. The only issue is that if he does well he's someone else's player. I do, however, agree with the idea that it's better than getting in a 34-year-old we know is dross. Being crap isn't better if you're old and crap.
Slightly picky there, Ghost: Palmer was 22 when he signed on loan for Plymouth - he turned 24 three weeks ago. Also, you say that Benda and Palmer coming from higher up the leagues than Fleetwood is notable, yet you also laud Jaaskelainen (released, dropped to Division Four). And Crellin's no cretin – you don't play for England U17, England U18, England U19 and England U20 if you're shit, *especially* if you're not at one of the big clubs' academies. Not his fault his club manager's a knobhead – and given Gilks worked with him almost every day last season, you'd imagine he'd have to be confident in tipping the new boss off about him.

That said, I am slightly surprised we've gone for quite such a callow youth. I quite liked the look of Aaron Chapman, the 30-year-old released by Posh who was promoted with Accy two years ago (winning the divisional Golden Glove) and, before that, was at Chesterfield with Evatt; he also looked comfortable on the ball. But they may know more than me.

What is interesting regarding age is that the classic squad-demographic model – if a little oversimplified - would have a veteran goalkeeper, wily old defenders, prime-of-career midfielders and exciting young strikers. We've got that almost precisely reversed: the goalkeeper's 20, the first-choice back five averages 24 (with Delaney; 26 with Baptiste), the first-choice midfield trio 27 and the front two 30.5...

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by brommers95 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:59 pm

Something that’s been picked up on Twitter. All the squad numbers and Amoateng are now on the home kit personalisation section of the online shop.

0813D961-606F-43A2-B10D-35EDF4F8DC5C.png
0813D961-606F-43A2-B10D-35EDF4F8DC5C.png (229.8 KiB) Viewed 311 times


I’m sure this will be a busy week for announcements with new signings and the away kit still to be unveiled.

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by GhostoftheBok » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:03 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:38 pm
Slightly picky there, Ghost: Palmer was 22 when he signed on loan for Plymouth - he turned 24 three weeks ago. Also, you say that Benda and Palmer coming from higher up the leagues than Fleetwood is notable, yet you also laud Jaaskelainen (released, dropped to Division Four). And Crellin's no cretin – you don't play for England U17, England U18, England U19 and England U20 if you're shit, *especially* if you're not at one of the big clubs' academies. Not his fault his club manager's a knobhead – and given Gilks worked with him almost every day last season, you'd imagine he'd have to be confident in tipping the new boss off about him.
I don't expect Crellin to be shit, but I do think we had a look at budgets and decided to put our money into other areas of the pitch.

I think IE and his staff decided Crellin will be good enough for what they need, rather than thinking they've signed a worldie.

It's a big risk. I hope it works out and I'll be giving the lad plenty of time to settle and develop. Maybe I'm wrong and Gilks sees him as ready to be a big player from day one, we shall see.

Honestly, my biggest concern is what I said in another thread and what you pointed out here. There's a lack of experience at the back. If the back 3 get shaky there's not an experienced defensive mid or keeper to set them right and if the keeper has a nightmare there's not much experience in front of him in the three to talk him through it. I'm not worried about Crellin, the back three or Comley....I am worried about the combination. If we are under the cosh or a game is getting out of hand I am not sure who steps up and sorts it. Barrow's spine had Quigley, Rooney and Hird sorting things out in the three departments when it wasn't going right. Hopefully someone at the back turns out to have those qualities.

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by GhostoftheBok » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:09 pm

brommers95 wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 5:59 pm
Something that’s been picked up on Twitter. All the squad numbers and Amoateng are now on the home kit personalisation section of the online shop.
Interesting to see Gilks at 13 and 18 unassigned. Striker's number.

Also pleased to see Darcy drop 10 places to 17.

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:21 pm

Squad numbers accidentally leaked via the online club shop's shirt-personalisation options.

1 Crellin
2 Jones
3 Gordon
4 Taft
5 Santos
6 Delaney
7 Delfouneso
8 Comley
9 Doyle
10 Sarcevic
11 Crawford
12 Hickman
13 Gilks
14 White
15 Mascoll
16 Greenidge
17 Darcy
18 -
19 Amoateng
20 -
21 Brockbank
22 Politic
23 -
24 -
25 -
26 -
27 Baptiste
28 -
29 -
30 -
31 -
32 -
33 Faal
34 Senior

Darcy moves in from 27 to 17, but Faal moves out to 33 from 19 - which is occupied by the guy we still haven't signed.

Sarce at 10 because Fonz wants the 7.

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:45 pm

I wonder if they are not announcing amoateng because they are thinking he might get loaned out if we can get someone more first team ready in?

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:50 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:45 pm
I wonder if they are not announcing amoateng because they are thinking he might get loaned out if we can get someone more first team ready in?
If that's the case, it's really daft thinking. You announce the signing; then later, if you get more players in, you loan him out. i don't think anyone would say they were selling season tickets under false pretences - "I wanted to see the guy who played three FA Youth Cup games for Bury!" It's very odd – I assumed there was somehow still contract haggling going on, or perhaps disagreement one way or the other between Evatt and Phoenix. But if they've gone to the bother of giving him a shirt number, and turfing Faal out of it to make way, what gives?

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Sep 01, 2020 6:53 pm

Dunno, it’s odd. That’s all I could think of! Like he wouldn’t count in the squad quota if they didn’t announce it? Just guessing!

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:11 pm

Will be technical reason they’ve not announced him. Some sort of clearance or awaiting documentation or whatever....loads of times this summer players have been training weeks and only then announced. Not sure it matters much.

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:13 pm

Yeah it’s weird enough to prompt weird theories :D

I hear you on the quota but then it’d be a SNAFU to tell the club shop his number... and besides, presumably we’d register him with the League, they might notice... (note that there’s no number options for the loaned Thomason or King-Harmes)

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by GhostoftheBok » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:35 pm

How old is he? Could it be that we have signed him to a youth contract and we are only announcing full contracts?

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:26 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:35 pm
How old is he? Could it be that we have signed him to a youth contract and we are only announcing full contracts?
Possibly (although I don’t see why the silence when he’s getting a squad number). I haven’t been able to confirm his age but he made a couple of appearances for LFC U18s in 2017/18 and then played the 2018/19 season for Bury U18s. I have seen one forum poster describe him as born in “late 02” which would make him 18 round about now. He seems to have spent the entirety of last season without club. What’s the story?
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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by irie Cee Bee » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:29 pm

No number for Edwards either and is it that we expect Politic to play before the season ends?

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by GhostoftheBok » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:39 pm

Bury's collapse and coronavirus probably explains that Amoateng gap year well enough.

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:25 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:39 pm
Bury's collapse and coronavirus probably explains that Amoateng gap year well enough.
Plenty of football between those two events, though. Not to be mercenary but plenty of the Bury lads got football - feels like a dozen ended up at Plymouth. I’m surprised that as a free agent he wasn’t taken on by *anybody*.

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Re: BWFC Squad 20'-21'

Post by GhostoftheBok » Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:12 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 10:25 pm
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:39 pm
Bury's collapse and coronavirus probably explains that Amoateng gap year well enough.
Plenty of football between those two events, though. Not to be mercenary but plenty of the Bury lads got football - feels like a dozen ended up at Plymouth. I’m surprised that as a free agent he wasn’t taken on by *anybody*.
I dunno. A mate of mine was talking to Andy Bishop a bit ago when people were still hoping to get the club back somehow and he was saying that a lot of their academy lads were going to fall out of the game because other local clubs were struggling. Seems like the North West has been hit particularly hard by the issues in the game. Must have been a difficult period for a lot of younger lads.

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