Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

Post Reply
GhostoftheBok
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:51 pm

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by GhostoftheBok » Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:03 am

Leeds sent their 18s down, apparently. A lot of 16 year old players, according to Leeds fans.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18126
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:20 am

Ha! Imagine shipping seven at Stanley! What kind of half-arsed tinpot oh hang on yeah.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 26509
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:40 am

DJBlu wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:27 pm
I'll say this, if a neutral had watched that 2nd half they'd have been extremely entertained.

We had enough to win it. Yer the defence was ropey but we've been given turgid football for the past god knows how many years trying to defend a 1-0 lead. This team gels and we're in for one fecking ride.

Look at it this way, the defence can only get better.

Onwards and upwards.
When Miller came on we looked a decent side going forwards. Till that point...not so much.

The defence HAS to get better because we won't win any games if teams can score such basic goals against us. I do think it will and I do agree with Nichaldo that it isn't JUST the back 3 but the whole structure off the ball needs work. The actual back three though have been shocking in both games. I'd say Delaney and Baptiste the only two so far I've any confidence in being able to possibly hold their own. Certainly want to see those two start Saturday. Not sure who goes with them, I guess Santos.

But individually the back 3 need to be better - that doesn't solve every issue as I still think we're pulled out of shape too easily and aren't pressing the ball nearly enough as a unit - even when its in our own half. But cut out the schoolboy basic errors and lack of challenge and play like we did for the second part of the second half and I can see us winning plenty.

officer_dibble
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8960
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:58 am

Agreed. I think Conley has to start on Saturday as he offers more protection than the other midfielders - hopefully clever enough to sit in if say Santos gets pulled out of position wide or even further forward.

The more I think about it I would go
Crellin
Santos
Baptiste
Delaney
Comley
White
Crawford
Jones
Mascall or Gordon if the former isn’t fit enough
Doyle
Miller/ the fonz

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18126
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:30 am

I understand the exceptions made for Baptiste and Delaney, but I wonder if it’s coincidence that both have played the somewhat simpler central role. In Evatt’s system, the wide centre-backs are expected to carry a threat with the ball when midfield is crowded, but also be aware of their defensive responsibilities at the transitions (which are disarmingly sudden and worryingly often) from us being in possession to us not being.

More basically: the guy in the middle stays home while the other two are asked to bomb forward. They’re doing that bit but the problems seem to be getting back in. Hence the understandable discussions about “concentration” and “defending”. If you sit deep and never stray forward - think Wheater/Beevers/Taylor - it’s harder to get caught out. I know that not just from watching but from painful personal playing experience.

I’m not convinced that Delaney’s positional nous or Baptiste’s recovery are good enough for those wide positions. I might be wrong and I’d be delighted if so.

Oh and some of the goals we’ve conceded have NOT been about getting back into position: they’ve just been gormlessness and poor defending. Evatt has fewer excuses there, although I note he blames the linesman for their third.

I also agree that some of this is about being turned too easily in midfield. Crewe in particular, in both games, looked capable of slicing through us with quickfire forward passes, while Bradford also did it a couple of times. I don’t think a switch to 4-4-2 would change that. It’s about practice and awareness. I just hope we don’t lose too much heart (and title-race ground) before it settles in.

The_Gun
Promising
Promising
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by The_Gun » Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:43 am

I haven't been able to watch either game so am unable to give any real insight, but surely we need to have a degree of understanding that an entirely new squad, coach and system will require a bit of time to get things right?

Personnel issues are a different matter, and some of the comments made about our defenders are quite concerning. Hopefully some of the errors which have been made in these matches are down to a lack of familiarity with each other and the system rather than a lack of ability. I'd also be hopeful that Greenidge will be a good option to throw into the mix when he reaches fitness.

officer_dibble
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8960
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:03 am

We’ve conceded goals that have been free headers, Because Taft and Santos look dozy. Or Taft let some bloke run with ball and get a shot in 20 yards later! They weren’t caught up the pitch. For me Taft was that bad last night he deserves dropping...of course it’s a new system and chopping and changing at the back won’t help. I don’t think Delaney will offer as much on the ball going forward, but I Think we need to sort the defence first.

Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 20235
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by Prufrock » Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:30 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:35 pm
That was lovely. Miller has been great since he came on. Looks a good foil for Doyle.
Eoin's foil, Eoin's foil, Eoin's Eoin's foil?
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 26509
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:06 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:30 am
I understand the exceptions made for Baptiste and Delaney, but I wonder if it’s coincidence that both have played the somewhat simpler central role. In Evatt’s system, the wide centre-backs are expected to carry a threat with the ball when midfield is crowded, but also be aware of their defensive responsibilities at the transitions (which are disarmingly sudden and worryingly often) from us being in possession to us not being.

More basically: the guy in the middle stays home while the other two are asked to bomb forward. They’re doing that bit but the problems seem to be getting back in. Hence the understandable discussions about “concentration” and “defending”. If you sit deep and never stray forward - think Wheater/Beevers/Taylor - it’s harder to get caught out. I know that not just from watching but from painful personal playing experience.

I’m not convinced that Delaney’s positional nous or Baptiste’s recovery are good enough for those wide positions. I might be wrong and I’d be delighted if so.

Oh and some of the goals we’ve conceded have NOT been about getting back into position: they’ve just been gormlessness and poor defending. Evatt has fewer excuses there, although I note he blames the linesman for their third.

I also agree that some of this is about being turned too easily in midfield. Crewe in particular, in both games, looked capable of slicing through us with quickfire forward passes, while Bradford also did it a couple of times. I don’t think a switch to 4-4-2 would change that. It’s about practice and awareness. I just hope we don’t lose too much heart (and title-race ground) before it settles in.
Both Delaney and Baptiste have been poor but at least both of them TRIED to track runners. And yes they had the central berth but I think we should let the back three be a back three and expect less of the wide centre halves Saturday and pick the best three to defend. If that means its 0-0 then fine by me. But what is clear is that Taft - whether its the role confusing him or whatever is a liability and we need to stop being so easy to score against. Confidence can very easily evaporate if you are always conceding goals - we've seen it before. The back three in time will get better but lets pick our best defenders for now and ask them to defend - they still might not be very good but that's what we've got.

Branagan
Hopeful
Hopeful
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:55 am

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by Branagan » Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:09 am

For me, certainly in the first half, our passing was the bit that was really scuppering us. Every third pass was too short or just wayward. I agree with all the criticism of the defence whole heatedly but, when you give away possession in the middle of the park without warning, its that much harder for everyone else who has to suddenly switch mindset and get into defence mode. Especially in a system where defenders have to contribute to attacks, you don't want those attacks suddenly turning into counter attacks. Not saying we'll never get tackled but far too many unforced errors last night.

GhostoftheBok
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:51 pm

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by GhostoftheBok » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:20 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:03 am
Or Taft let some bloke run with ball and get a shot in 20 yards later! They weren’t caught up the pitch. For me Taft was that bad last night he deserves dropping...of course it’s a new system and chopping and changing at the back won’t help. I don’t think Delaney will offer as much on the ball going forward, but I Think we need to sort the defence first.
Worth noting that if by the 20 yard run and shot you mean their second goal that was Delaney, not Taft. Delaney got his position wrong and should have shown him down the line, but the lad cut inside nicely and Delaney was recovering until Gordon came back in. Delaney eased back to avoid running into Gordon when Gordon crossed his line and that gave the lad the yards to get a shot in. Taft was actually where he should be, marking on Mandron.

That's the second time we've seen Gordon run past a player to regain position because he simply didn't see the threat. That'll hopefully come with experience.

GhostoftheBok
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:51 pm

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by GhostoftheBok » Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:32 pm

My view, just on what we've seen in the two games, is that we'll probably line up with exactly the same 11 that started against Bradford.

I'd not mind seeing Mascoll come in if Gordon has run himself to death, but the lad looks like he has amazing engine. Jak did really well but I think we'll want the solidity and engine of Jones in the league. Sarc is the only big call in that midfield 3, but he's the captain. Doyle will start assuming that limp vs Crewe was just his natural gait. You could argue Miller earned a start, but I think Evatt will give his mate plenty of time to show his quality.

In a way, it's good that we really could play a very different 11 and not seem too much weaker. I think the lads who got in vs Crewe had to impress to get in the 11 and they didn't (bar Hickman, who may get in but apparently isn't up to fitness yet).

officer_dibble
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8960
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:02 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:20 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:03 am
Or Taft let some bloke run with ball and get a shot in 20 yards later! They weren’t caught up the pitch. For me Taft was that bad last night he deserves dropping...of course it’s a new system and chopping and changing at the back won’t help. I don’t think Delaney will offer as much on the ball going forward, but I Think we need to sort the defence first.
Worth noting that if by the 20 yard run and shot you mean their second goal that was Delaney, not Taft. Delaney got his position wrong and should have shown him down the line, but the lad cut inside nicely and Delaney was recovering until Gordon came back in. Delaney eased back to avoid running into Gordon when Gordon crossed his line and that gave the lad the yards to get a shot in. Taft was actually where he should be, marking on Mandron.

That's the second time we've seen Gordon run past a player to regain position because he simply didn't see the threat. That'll hopefully come with experience.
Apologies, I thought they said it was Taft on the commentary. Cheers for pointing that out!

Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 23813
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:36 pm

My view fwiw, is we were overall better last night, taken as a whole, than we were against Bradford. Against a team from a higher division than Bradford. In that sense, I'd think that it's some of the Bradford contingent that need to "make the case", albeit, the defensive pick 3 from 5 could go into <insert managers name here> magic selection hat for me. Looking at the players who started last night, I think Hickman did more than enough to make his case. We looked way more dangerous on that right and I don't think our weakness at the back was particularly down to anything Hickman did/didn't do.

Delaney probably did enough for me (compared to the other 4 CD's I've seen) to just about get a spot.

Miller - we looked good with him on the pitch - but, Delfouneso done nowt wrong and I can't see Doyle getting dropped so I suspect it's an either/or between Miller and Delfouneso but over two games Delfouneso has showed more than Doyle for me, but equally not sure the Fonz and Miller is the right pick as not seen them in the same game...Dilemma.

Crawford starts for me, assuming fit.

I think I'd be disappointed if there were no changes from Bradford game - we were pretty woeful - although I could see that this might happen.

GhostoftheBok
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:51 pm

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by GhostoftheBok » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:41 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:02 pm
Apologies, I thought they said it was Taft on the commentary. Cheers for pointing that out!
I think they did, but they were also commentating on Hickman's defending 10 minutes after he'd gone off...that time they meant Brockbank.

Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 23813
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:54 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:41 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:02 pm
Apologies, I thought they said it was Taft on the commentary. Cheers for pointing that out!
I think they did, but they were also commentating on Hickman's defending 10 minutes after he'd gone off...that time they meant Brockbank.
True dat.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18126
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:01 pm

I don’t easily criticise my fellow journalists but the commentary was awful.

On selection - the big decision is whether he drops (or “rotates”) the captain. Comley/White behind Crawford feels best at the mo.

The_Gun
Promising
Promising
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by The_Gun » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:02 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:36 pm
My view fwiw, is we were overall better last night, taken as a whole, than we were against Bradford. Against a team from a higher division than Bradford. In that sense, I'd think that it's some of the Bradford contingent that need to "make the case", albeit, the defensive pick 3 from 5 could go into <insert managers name here> magic selection hat for me. Looking at the players who started last night, I think Hickman did more than enough to make his case. We looked way more dangerous on that right and I don't think our weakness at the back was particularly down to anything Hickman did/didn't do.

Delaney probably did enough for me (compared to the other 4 CD's I've seen) to just about get a spot.

Miller - we looked good with him on the pitch - but, Delfouneso done nowt wrong and I can't see Doyle getting dropped so I suspect it's an either/or between Miller and Delfouneso but over two games Delfouneso has showed more than Doyle for me, but equally not sure the Fonz and Miller is the right pick as not seen them in the same game...Dilemma.

Crawford starts for me, assuming fit.

I think I'd be disappointed if there were no changes from Bradford game - we were pretty woeful - although I could see that this might happen.
Surely very little chance that Doyle doesn't start on Saturday? Again, with the caveat of me not having watched last night's game, I'd also think there's not much chance of the Fonz getting dropped at this stage. Those two very much look like IE's starting forwards for the foreseeable unless Doyle doesn't find his shooting boots or Nathan puts in a number of poor showings.

GhostoftheBok
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:51 pm

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by GhostoftheBok » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:05 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:01 pm
I don’t easily criticise my fellow journalists but the commentary was awful.

On selection - the big decision is whether he drops (or “rotates”) the captain. Comley/White behind Crawford feels best at the mo.
Definitely the best balance.

Worthy4England
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 23813
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 6:45 pm

Re: Wrecking Crewe - In search of a Tin Pot to piss in. Crewe Alex (H). FL Trophy 7PM 8/9/2020

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:26 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:05 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 4:01 pm
I don’t easily criticise my fellow journalists but the commentary was awful.

On selection - the big decision is whether he drops (or “rotates”) the captain. Comley/White behind Crawford feels best at the mo.
Definitely the best balance.
Me three.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 6 guests