Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00pm

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

Post Reply
LeverEnd
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8354
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:18 pm
Location: Dirty Leeds

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by LeverEnd » Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:44 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:48 pm
"I understand it’s frustrating. I’m as frustrated as everybody and I get that. I also get that I’m in the history of managers that’s lost their first four games in charge but that doesn't bother me, because I know what’s coming. I’m more than confident in myself and my abilities and today is the day where I really thought they’re starting to gather and take on this information. We looked like a really good team, bar the goals, bar us not taking our chances. You take the goals out of that game, we completely dominated it and if you asked every supporter that watches it, I’d encourage fans to watch it, yourselves (the media) as well, you must agree with me, I thought we were fantastic today." - Ian Evatt

It's alright, everyone. We were fantastic today.
He tells everyone we all must agree with him about 4 times in that interview. I don't know if he's moved on from the Secret to some sort of Paul Mackenna hypnosis but the interviews are bizarre.

I didn't see it so don't know how accurate his comments are? There were some positive comments on here in the first half, was it better?
...

GhostoftheBok
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:51 pm

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:50 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:44 pm
He tells everyone we all must agree with him about 4 times in that interview. I don't know if he's moved on from the Secret to some sort of Paul Mackenna hypnosis but the interviews are bizarre.

I didn't see it so don't know how accurate his comments are? There were some positive comments on here in the first half, was it better?
He sounds exactly like a guy I worked with who carried a copy of The Secret in his briefcase.

"You know it's true. That's obvious to you and me, because we can see it clearly. We know, don't we? Some won't know, but we can see the truth. You know it's true. I am right."

DJBlu
Site Admin
Posts: 4141
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2005 7:38 pm

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by DJBlu » Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:50 pm

We had 2 goals disallowed for offside and a penalty for a blatent hand ball turned away. In another universe we would be worried about the 2 goals we'd conceded as we can't keep relying on scoring 3 in a game just to get the win.

GhostoftheBok
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:51 pm

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sat Sep 19, 2020 7:50 pm

In all honesty he screams Scientologist.

Bruce Rioja
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 36118
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Drifting into the arena of the unwell.

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sat Sep 19, 2020 9:32 pm

Take the goals out? Ok fair enough 👌
May the bridges I burn light your way

brommers95
Hopeful
Hopeful
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:10 pm

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by brommers95 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:55 pm

About sums it up...

A956072B-9906-4541-8259-D7DD704B8B01.png
A956072B-9906-4541-8259-D7DD704B8B01.png (3.9 MiB) Viewed 544 times

GhostoftheBok
Dedicated
Dedicated
Posts: 1097
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:51 pm

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:49 am

Okay, now that I'm less annoyed, let's talk positives from the game.

Our defensive shape and timing was better. Despite the fact that Santos has the concentration and focus of a Labrador in a park full of squirrels he was actually very good in general play. Moving him to the centre let him focus (no sniggering at the back) on the game in front of him and he actually showed some ability to dominate a centre forward and organise a back four. Likewise, having Jones play a role somewhere between a fullback and an overlapping centre half highlighted all his best traits whilst hiding his deficiencies. Baptiste defended well and saw the game, but his age is now telling and he needs to adapt to his lack of mobility and also remember he's not Pirlo.

Gordon and Hickman played their roles well. Hickman is a superb wide play maker at this level. His ability to put the ball into dangerous areas is Championship level and his lack of defensive nouse was covered by Jones in behind him. He is the kind of player that could make Doyle tick, if we can now figure out how to keep Eoin in that central area more often. Gordon showed that he could defend in key moments and also his body shape when holding the ball improved over previous outings. He and Hickman still look raw, but I thought they showed promise.

The midfield rotation improved. The players still look off the pace and as though they are trying to remember where to stand and where to run, but we were less static than in the previous games and the player in possession generally had some kind of option, even if it was too slow. Again, not great but better. White and Comley were able to disrupt the opposition when they tried to play football at the start of the game. Crawford showed he could link up and cause issues, but his lack of penetration was an issue. Once the lads are intuitively moving in this system Ali's ability to put the ball into dangerous half positions will suit us, I think.

Once we lost our heads is was abysmal, but the earlier phases of the game showed that this group of players can play "Brand Evatt" (quiet at the back!) to some degree. I expected this all to take time and I thought we were in for a very rough start to the season, so I'm bouncing back from these losses fairly quickly. I actually think we can do something against Newport County. They have started the season well, but they are a side that likes to play and come forward - so assuming they stick to that and don't bank-up - we should be afforded the space we need. If the players can keep their shit together and not let their heads drop I think there's a result to be had there, if we build on the positives from yesterday.

Delfouneso and Doyle looked like they've figured out how they're going to try and play together. Delf was all over the pitch and offered an out ball when the other lads were not up to speed. He also took men on and finally showed that he can be the man who will stand a player up and beat him. We desperately need that and he dragged us up the pitch at times. I know we are all used to watching Premier League stars who can do amazing things with a ball, but I think Delf showed that at this level he can produce moments of genuine quality. Doyle tried to stick to his role leading the line and he was fractions away from good chances a few times. He needs to get back down to attacking space and he'll be okay.

officer_dibble
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8960
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by officer_dibble » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:43 am

I think it was better. Go in 0-0 at half time (as we should) and start the second half like we did and we could have scored first and won, or taken a point.

It feels like we need some luck in the area, a ball to drop in the right place or a shot to take a deflection and go in. I thought we got in more dangerous crosses yesterday but we also wasted a few good positions as well. I also think having Miller on the bench would have been useful - Lockett who they brought on wasn’t good enough.

Were it not for that prick of a centre back falling asleep (I agree he played ok apart from that!) we would have a point I think. Useless bastard I still want to give him a right good kicking!

Bertie Wooster
Promising
Promising
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:49 am

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:28 am

Young Hickman MOM by some distance yesterday I thought.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18126
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:44 am

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:28 am
Young Hickman MOM by some distance yesterday I thought.
I would agree that he played pleasingly well, particularly as he was in a new role I suspect he's never played before. (There are some arguments over what that role was - Iles thinks wide midfielder in a 4-3-1-2, others think more attacking in a 4-2-3-1, but that's by the by - we signed him as an outcast right-back.)

I would also give a warm handshake to Nathan Delfouneso, who tried his best to grab hold of the game, dropped deep to help out his mates (which is why I think it was more 4-2-3-1 than 4-3-1-2), was willing to run at opponents (unlike many of his team-mates) and ran himself into the ground. Different players in different roles but he has looked more like the "cut above" player than Eoin, Ali or Sarce so far.

Bertie Wooster
Promising
Promising
Posts: 419
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:49 am

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sun Sep 20, 2020 11:19 am

Yes Delfouneso played well, and he can come deep or wide and he can also run at players with the ball - but then if he's being asked to do that then we need another out & out striker to partner Doyle.

When he's played for other teams, I always thought of Delfouneso as a winger more than a central striker.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18126
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:02 pm

Let's not pretend the trip to Colchester was a success. We lost, again, and by two goals rather than the one we shipped at home to Forest Green.

However, there were glints in the gloom – arguably rather more than that: a pleasant period before the rains came. Evatt switched his formation to a back four, explaining that against FGR “We weren’t quite dominating the ball as I would have liked. Sometimes when you've got three centre backs they're not as comfortable building attacks as a full-back or a midfield player, for example. So I wanted to take a centre-back out of the team, put an extra forward in there who would drop back into pockets of space and enable our full-backs to get higher up the pitch, use their pace and energy. I thought we could build attacks better using the midfield pivot and I thought we did that really well. We've only been working at it a week but I thought the results were good."

A back four might sound more defensive than a back three but the starting formation is just that: a starting formation. The new layout seemed to give us a better balance and before Santos's inexcusable brainfart gifted Colchester the lead just before the oranges, we had looked a markedly better team than the floundering failures who barely laid a glove on FGR. I've had a dip into the figures (per WhoScored) for evidence that might help me sleep at night.

First off, we made more passes than against FGR (553 v 433) and had even more possession (63.8% v 55.8%). But as has been noted and noticed, passing and possession means nothing if it's in your own half.

However, whether by formation or determination or both, we moved higher up the pitch at Colchester. Whereas v FGR the ball only spent 21% of the time in our opponents' defensive third (and 37% in ours), at Colchester this was 30% (and 26% in our bit).
.
1 zones.jpg
1 zones.jpg (112.71 KiB) Viewed 360 times
.
This is reflected in our players' average positions: whereas against FGR only three players (Doyle, Fonz and Sarce) were over the halfway line, at Colchester it was six players as both full-backs bombed on to take higher positions than they had in the 3-4-1-2.

Note that against FGR, White's 14 is almost hidden behind Comley's 8; at Colchester, the two of them took a step to the side of each other and few steps forward. They both got more involved, with White shooting up from 37 touches v FGR to 80, and Comley from 28 to 72.

Although each of those central midfielders was withdrawn in the home game, White's FGR touches would average up to 48 touches over the 90 minutes, Comley's to 46.
.
2 positions.jpg
2 positions.jpg (52.21 KiB) Viewed 360 times
.
By notable contrast, Santos's number of touches went down to 75 at Colchester from a match-leading 87 vs FGR. That might not seem a lot (and there is a serious conversation to be had about Santos defensively) but it indicates that Santos was not our go-to possession guy, as he shouldn't be: the central midfielders stepped up, literally and figuratively, as they were fed by the centre-backs.

Cutting out the longer balls, Baptiste's passing average went up from 78.3% to 91.4%, Santos's from 72.6% to 89.7%. Again, those higher numbers can come from risk-free safe passes; however, notwithstanding the idea of overloading centre-backs, ideally you don't want your Big Lads At The Back to me making all your key decisions. If they were good enough at that, they'd be midfielders...
Last edited by Dave Sutton's barnet on Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 18126
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:03 pm

3 heatmap.jpg
3 heatmap.jpg (68.75 KiB) Viewed 359 times
.
Perhaps the most immediately obvious representation of the upfield progress is the heatmaps above – us v FGR, then us v Colchester. Instead of shuddering to a halt just over halfway as if unable to leave the giant maternal mammary of the centre-circle, we got some penetration goin' on.

Sure, we didn't quite manage to inveigle our way at will into Colchester's inner sanctum, but heat maps rarely light up the opponent's penalty box. The touch-maps from the two games (with shots as lines) show we were, at least, getting up the garden path: gone is the gaping hole 20-30 yards out, while there's notably more touches in the last 20 yards or so. We also had more crosses (up from 15 to 18) and key passes, ie those leading to an attempt, from 6 to 8.

As Evatt said of his formation switch, “I think the decision has paid off. I know we lost another game, I know that’s tough to take, but that’s the best we have played for a long time. I’d challenge any Bolton fan to say we didn’t play well and didn’t deserve to win. We have to stay positive. It doesn’t matter where we are now, it matters in May. If we play like that for 44 games we’ll win a lot more than we lose.”
.
4 touches.jpg
4 touches.jpg (142.3 KiB) Viewed 359 times
.
All this movement up the pitch should help Doyle do the job he was brought to, ie score goals. On last night's MOTD, the pundits applaud Dominic Calvert-Lewin's newfound (and richly rewarded) determination to focus on working the penalty box, which sounds bleedin' obvious for a striker but all too often we see our main man removed from his principle theatre of operations.

Comparing Doyle's touch-maps against FGR and Colchester shows that he was notably more involved in the final 25 yards, as he should be.
.
5 doyle.jpg
5 doyle.jpg (43.82 KiB) Viewed 359 times
.
Doyle is a finisher, a box-fox, and he needs to concentrate his efforts on being in the penalty area and the central strip 10 or so yards behind it. Obviously he can't just stand in the D and wait – he'd be offside most of the time – and the temptation for any good footballer is to drop deep (or wide) and get involved when his team is struggling, but Evatt needs to enforce restrictions on Doyle and keep him up the top end; not only will we get more from him now, but that kind of specialisation should prolong his career. Even if he's the 1 in a 4-2-3-1, he needs to leave the running to others. That might be the next little detail if Evatt, the eternal optimist who saw plenty to be pleased with in this game, is to keep the fans – and players – with him on the happy bus.

LeverEnd
Legend
Legend
Posts: 8354
Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:18 pm
Location: Dirty Leeds

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by LeverEnd » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:30 pm

Interesting analysis DSB. Looking forward to next Saturday's game, especially to see Hickman have a go at them.
Also, can I say how much I enjoyed 'giant maternal mammary' as a metaphor for the centre circle? Lovely stuff.
...


nicholaldo
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 783
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by nicholaldo » Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:51 pm

I'm pleased we changed to a back four, and relieved that Evatt confirmed it was a tactical change rather than a change forced upon him by a mounting injury list. It comes as no surprise to me we were better able to play higher up the pitch with a more convential shape and I hope we persist with it.

I can't escape the thought, however, that aspiring to be quite so dominant in possession is having the effect of constraining us. It's most obvious when the opposition take the lead and can afford to cede territory and crowd the area in front of their penalty area, but even before going behind I think it might be to our advantage for the play to more open, simply because it would likely result in us having more space to exploit. The risk is that the opposition would have more space to work with also, but then 1. Evatt's 3-4-1-2 has thus far been too easy to undo on the counter anyway, and 2. I think we should have enough confidence in our forward players to be comfortable inviting teams on to us and going toe-to-toe. An added benefit could be that Doyle would be afforded the room in and around the six-yard box that he's been so desperately short of.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the logic behind dominating posession and creating space by dragging the opposition out of shape, and if we do ever take the lead I can see that approach being devastatingly effective against a team having to take risks in an effort to find an equaliser, so I don't want us to abandon that approach altogether. However, I just think we end up overcomplicating things by doing it from the outset. It's good to have more than one string to one's bow.

nicholaldo
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 783
Joined: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:23 pm

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by nicholaldo » Sun Sep 20, 2020 10:24 pm

Toe-to-toe is too extreme. I don't want us to lose control, just not be concerned if a more direct passing intent results in a more equal share of possession. The consequence would hopefully be that the opposition open up and we find it easier to create goal scoring opportunities.

If we score first, then by all means dominate possession and wait for the mistake.

BWFC_Insane
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 26509
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 4:07 pm

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Sep 21, 2020 9:43 am

Dominating possession works if a) you can score goals by doing so and/or b) you can stretch the opposition and work them to tire them out.

It doesn't work if a) you're not creating too much and b) the opposition can sit in a nice compact shape behind the ball and watch you pass it sideways.

I feel that our issue is simply that we're too obvious to sit deep against wait for us to lose it and then even with 30-40% of the ball any team would fancy scoring against us. If by having 60% of the ball we were bound to create a string of chances then teams wouldn't be so comfortable sitting and the game would be different entirely. But until we look dangerous in possession (right now I'd say we have as much chance of giving it away and conceding when in possession as we do of scoring) or are more able to move teams around the pitch and wear out legs on the opposition I'd say we're going to have a lot of games like Saturday. Of course being more clinical with the chance we were gifted and half chances we were gifted would change things but that is the case no matter how you play. And in fact the whole point of having so much possession should be that you aren't reliant on 2 or 3 chances going in - a critique of Parky I guess where we were never going to created 10 chances a game so the ones we did had to go in the net.

The_Gun
Promising
Promising
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by The_Gun » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:03 am

I think with the improvement which can be expected week-to-week from a brand new squad, the goal scoring chances should increase for Newport (dependent upon their style of play of course). Things clearly began to click for us much more on Saturday, as evidenced in the graphical analysis provided by DSB above, and I am personally reasonably confident that further progression is likely with another week on the training ground under our belts.

As Evatt gains more of an understanding of players' strengths he will be able to settle on his preferred formation and best lineups, which in turn should allow players to develop combinations amongst themselves and greater confidence of what is required of them individually. All of this takes time, and as long as we keep stepping forwards I would like to think we'll be one of the better teams in this division.

The_Gun
Promising
Promising
Posts: 327
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Can we be-a-tad little shellfish and make this the U-turn of the season? Colchester United Away 19th Sep 2020 15:00p

Post by The_Gun » Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:06 am

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:03 am
I think with the improvement which can be expected week-to-week from a brand new squad, the goal scoring chances should increase for Newport (dependent upon their style of play of course). Things clearly began to click for us much more on Saturday, as evidenced in the graphical analysis provided by DSB above, and I am personally reasonably confident that further progression is likely with another week on the training ground under our belts.

As Evatt gains more of an understanding of players' strengths he will be able to settle on his preferred formation and best lineups, which in turn should allow players to develop combinations amongst themselves and greater confidence of what is required of them individually. All of this takes time, and as long as we keep stepping forwards I would like to think we'll be one of the better teams in this division.
And I'm scared of the alternative to the above, so I'll keep buying into Brand Evatt for the time being... :o

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: bedwetter2 and 7 guests