Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

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Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:47 am

Wholesale changes for this one then? We all know the definition of insanity - does the same rule apply to stubbornness? I think so. Will Evatt admit that he needs to try something different and/or with different players, or might this present an unpalatable climbdown to a man who was oh so very quick to ramp up the early breast-beating?

I claim a full-house on the thread title, by the way :)
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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by DJBlu » Mon Sep 28, 2020 10:42 am

Zero confidence, zero anticipation, zero chance.

1-0 win to Bolton.

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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:08 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 9:47 am
Wholesale changes for this one then? We all know the definition of insanity - does the same rule apply to stubbornness? I think so. Will Evatt admit that he needs to try something different and/or with different players, or might this present an unpalatable climbdown to a man who was oh so very quick to ramp up the early breast-beating?

I claim a full-house on the thread title, by the way :)
Discovered this week while researching that the "insanity definition" is misattributed. It wasn't Einstein, who's a quote-hoover (like Twain, Wilde and Jefferson) often give credit for what he didn't say; intriguingly the first printed/recorded use of it was in 1981 by addiction-recovery support groups - Al-Anon and Narcotics Anonymous. Well, we here are all hopelessly addicted to BWFC, but is Evatt addicted to didacticism? Can he change his spots? He's already threatened to change his team - "If we have to make changes then we will because everyone has had an opportunity now – whether it was in pre-season or over the last few games. It’s now about who shows me they want it the most this week.”

That claim that everyone has had an opportunity might surprise Mascoll, who's played 9 minutes of real games plus 56 and 9 of the last two friendlies, while Darcy hasn't had a minute in a month now. But Evatt has already shown himself willing to make changes, and he must surely now drop Santos, who again looked at best ponderous and at worst dangerous to us. There was dark humour in Prufrock's suggestion that Reekz is the worst player he's seen in any game organised enough to feature a referee, but at some point the chuckling has to stop.

It's fair to say that Harrogate have adapted to the Football League better than Evatt: they're sixth, 16 places above us. (That's right: wake up and smell the manure.) I don't know what formation or football they play but our games this season have shown that you don't need to be brilliant to beat us. That's got to stop too.

So for me, I'd send for experience and a touch of simplicity. I'd bring Tutte into midfield (and drop Comley because White has a better range of passing and more determination to gain territory). I'd have Delaney back in the middle of defence: maybe he can't thread a pass, but maybe just now he doesn't have to. I'd persevere with Taft, because he's not as dopey as Santos. I'd consider Gethin at right centre-back because, as I've noted on the Newport thread, I think to maximise Doyle we need two up top (and no, I don't fancy 4-4-2 right now). Taft-Delaney-Jones with Hickman on the right and Mascoll on the left to see what he can do. Tutte sitting, behind White and Crawford (no point having a No 10 isolated). Get the midfielders wanting the ball and wanting to get forward to meet Delf and Fonz. That XI could morph into a 4-2-3-1 if need be - Jones shuffles over, Hickman forward - but it's been hired to play 3-5-2 and I still think it could work, with minor changes and major attitude shift. Because if anyone doesn't want this fight, we need to get rid.

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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:49 am

I take it Jon Stead is up top still for this lot?

I’ve put my stab at a formation and team elsewhere - 451 stop them playing first and foremost and hopefully we can sneak a goal. We really need to reset this season and get points on the board by any means necessary. If we lose every game in October like we did September Evatt has to be a goner. National league is not in the business plan.

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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by Athertonian » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:57 pm

A poor show and a defeat to Harrogate will be one of the lowest of lows for me being a Bolton fan.

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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:49 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:08 am
Discovered this week while researching that the "insanity definition" is misattributed. It wasn't Einstein, who's a quote-hoover (like Twain, Wilde and Jefferson) often give credit for what he didn't say; intriguingly the first printed/recorded use of it was in 1981 by addiction-recovery support groups - Al-Anon and Narcotics Anonymous. Well, we here are all hopelessly addicted to BWFC, but is Evatt addicted to didacticism? Can he change his spots? He's already threatened to change his team - "If we have to make changes then we will because everyone has had an opportunity now – whether it was in pre-season or over the last few games. It’s now about who shows me they want it the most this week.”

That claim that everyone has had an opportunity might surprise Mascoll, who's played 9 minutes of real games plus 56 and 9 of the last two friendlies, while Darcy hasn't had a minute in a month now. But Evatt has already shown himself willing to make changes, and he must surely now drop Santos, who again looked at best ponderous and at worst dangerous to us. There was dark humour in Prufrock's suggestion that Reekz is the worst player he's seen in any game organised enough to feature a referee, but at some point the chuckling has to stop.

It's fair to say that Harrogate have adapted to the Football League better than Evatt: they're sixth, 16 places above us. (That's right: wake up and smell the manure.) I don't know what formation or football they play but our games this season have shown that you don't need to be brilliant to beat us. That's got to stop too.

So for me, I'd send for experience and a touch of simplicity. I'd bring Tutte into midfield (and drop Comley because White has a better range of passing and more determination to gain territory). I'd have Delaney back in the middle of defence: maybe he can't thread a pass, but maybe just now he doesn't have to. I'd persevere with Taft, because he's not as dopey as Santos. I'd consider Gethin at right centre-back because, as I've noted on the Newport thread, I think to maximise Doyle we need two up top (and no, I don't fancy 4-4-2 right now). Taft-Delaney-Jones with Hickman on the right and Mascoll on the left to see what he can do. Tutte sitting, behind White and Crawford (no point having a No 10 isolated). Get the midfielders wanting the ball and wanting to get forward to meet Delf and Fonz. That XI could morph into a 4-2-3-1 if need be - Jones shuffles over, Hickman forward - but it's been hired to play 3-5-2 and I still think it could work, with minor changes and major attitude shift. Because if anyone doesn't want this fight, we need to get rid.
To be honest, I'm now immediately sceptical in the extreme when I hear of phrases being attributed to Einstein, Twain or Wilde, added to me also raising a questioning eyebrow at mentions of Groucho Marx and W. C. Fields.

No such hiding places for Revels Evatt though and his forthright, abrasive even, take on all matters BWFC and fourth division footy. We saw ya and we 'eard ya!

Individual players aside (though I'm not sure Prufrock's comment re Santos was quite meant entirely in the humorous vein you detect ;) ) the one thing which sounded like a your-system's-not-working Claxon on Saturday to me was when I saw Doyle, a player who's been brought in to do one thing and one thing alone in getting onto the end of balls into the box, dropping deep into midfield to fetch the ball for himself due to a total absence of service.

It's all well and good saying the players "don't want it enough" - I suspect we're in for an absolute shitload more of this blame deflection from a man who up to now is humanifying the 'empty vessels' phrase (Quick, add Plato to that list ;) ) I'm not so sure these players lack effort - they lack ability for sure, and hey, they're here for a reason etc., but for Evatt not to recognise that his system in it's current form simply isn't working, and his claim that the problems are down to the effort levels of players exhibits what I fear is possibly the dawn of a level of pig-headedness I find unnerving.

I'd be absolutely delighted to see him shuffle things as per your design, before any of us find ourselves learning first-hand any further support group originated expressions.
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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:57 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:49 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Mon Sep 28, 2020 11:08 am
Discovered this week while researching that the "insanity definition" is misattributed. It wasn't Einstein, who's a quote-hoover (like Twain, Wilde and Jefferson) often give credit for what he didn't say; intriguingly the first printed/recorded use of it was in 1981 by addiction-recovery support groups - Al-Anon and Narcotics Anonymous. Well, we here are all hopelessly addicted to BWFC, but is Evatt addicted to didacticism? Can he change his spots? He's already threatened to change his team - "If we have to make changes then we will because everyone has had an opportunity now – whether it was in pre-season or over the last few games. It’s now about who shows me they want it the most this week.”

That claim that everyone has had an opportunity might surprise Mascoll, who's played 9 minutes of real games plus 56 and 9 of the last two friendlies, while Darcy hasn't had a minute in a month now. But Evatt has already shown himself willing to make changes, and he must surely now drop Santos, who again looked at best ponderous and at worst dangerous to us. There was dark humour in Prufrock's suggestion that Reekz is the worst player he's seen in any game organised enough to feature a referee, but at some point the chuckling has to stop.

It's fair to say that Harrogate have adapted to the Football League better than Evatt: they're sixth, 16 places above us. (That's right: wake up and smell the manure.) I don't know what formation or football they play but our games this season have shown that you don't need to be brilliant to beat us. That's got to stop too.

So for me, I'd send for experience and a touch of simplicity. I'd bring Tutte into midfield (and drop Comley because White has a better range of passing and more determination to gain territory). I'd have Delaney back in the middle of defence: maybe he can't thread a pass, but maybe just now he doesn't have to. I'd persevere with Taft, because he's not as dopey as Santos. I'd consider Gethin at right centre-back because, as I've noted on the Newport thread, I think to maximise Doyle we need two up top (and no, I don't fancy 4-4-2 right now). Taft-Delaney-Jones with Hickman on the right and Mascoll on the left to see what he can do. Tutte sitting, behind White and Crawford (no point having a No 10 isolated). Get the midfielders wanting the ball and wanting to get forward to meet Delf and Fonz. That XI could morph into a 4-2-3-1 if need be - Jones shuffles over, Hickman forward - but it's been hired to play 3-5-2 and I still think it could work, with minor changes and major attitude shift. Because if anyone doesn't want this fight, we need to get rid.
To be honest, I'm now immediately sceptical in the extreme when I hear of phrases being attributed to Einstein, Twain or Wilde, added to me also raising a questioning eyebrow at mentions of Groucho Marx and W. C. Fields.

No such hiding places for Revels Evatt though and his forthright, abrasive even, take on all matters BWFC and fourth division footy. We saw ya and we 'eard ya!

Individual players aside (though I'm not sure Prufrock's comment re Santos was quite meant entirely in the humorous vein you detect ;) ) the one thing which sounded like a your-system's-not-working Claxon on Saturday to me was when I saw Doyle, a player who's been brought in to do one thing and one thing alone in getting onto the end of balls into the box, dropping deep into midfield to fetch the ball for himself due to a total absence of service.

It's all well and good saying the players "don't want it enough" - I suspect we're in for an absolute shitload more of this blame deflection from a man who up to now is humanifying the 'empty vessels' phrase (Quick, add Plato to that list ;) ) I'm not so sure these players lack effort - they lack ability for sure, and hey, they're here for a reason etc., but for Evatt not to recognise that his system in it's current form simply isn't working, and his claim that the problems are down to the effort levels of players exhibits what I fear is possibly the dawn of a level of pig-headedness I find unnerving.

I'd be absolutely delighted to see him shuffle things as per your design, before any of us find ourselves learning first-hand any further support group originated expressions.
There is an element that we're simply not competing. That for me isn't so much tactical or system based but just confidence and feeling comfortable knowing what you're doing. So I do think it is Evatt's fault but I also don't think changing system automatically changes anything UNLESS Evatt has the skill to drill and organise this group into some sort of shape and system they are capable of playing. My worry is no matter how you want to play, or shape you want there are fundamental basics we've got wrong and that does show problems in coaching for me.....

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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by brommers95 » Mon Sep 28, 2020 2:00 pm

In some ways they are the antithesis to us; they entered the season with no real expectation to do well after a fairly meteoric rise from the National League North to League Two in three seasons, they've no 'star' names for this division (unless you count a 37 year old Jon Stead who's only played 74 mins in the league so far) compared to our Doyles, Delfs and Sarcevics and a tiny ground that has 28,223 fewer seats than our own.

Also, rather worryingly, unlike us they seem to do the basics well - hard running, fighting for every ball and supporting teammates when in possession.

I'm pinning my hopes of us getting at least a point on the law of averages. Surely we're due a result soon, right?

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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:00 am

Things to read and consider, from people other than me.

1. Sarce is back and a man possessed, Ian Evatt tells Marc Iles.
https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... back-bang/

2. His game - energetic running and short passes, we’re told - might be a big improvement on the wasteful passing choices of many others, given the examples listed by BWFC Analysis.
https://twitter.com/analysis_bwfc

3. We’re almost always bobbins in September, and now it’s gone, says The Burnden Way.
https://theburndenway.org/2020/09/30/wa ... mber-ends/

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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:29 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:00 am

3. We’re almost always bobbins in September, and now it’s gone
I liken that to Boris's 10:00pm Covid curfew. ;)
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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:31 am

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:29 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:00 am
3. We’re almost always bobbins in September, and now it’s gone
I liken that to Boris's 10:00pm Covid curfew. ;)
Ha! Well he makes some interesting points and is worth cocking an ear to. Burnden, not Boris, obviously. :mrgreen:

Dunno if your Twitter ban is still in effect while working from home, Bruce, but do have a look at the BWFC Analysis stuff if you can. Some enlightening clips. In short: they're all guilty of going Hollywood instead of passing and moving.

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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:25 am

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:31 am
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:29 am
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:00 am
3. We’re almost always bobbins in September, and now it’s gone
I liken that to Boris's 10:00pm Covid curfew. ;)
Ha! Well he makes some interesting points and is worth cocking an ear to. Burnden, not Boris, obviously. :mrgreen:

Dunno if your Twitter ban is still in effect while working from home, Bruce, but do have a look at the BWFC Analysis stuff if you can. Some enlightening clips. In short: they're all guilty of going Hollywood instead of passing and moving.
Cheers, Fella - will do. All good on the domestic Twitter front, too. :)
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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:02 pm

At this juncture - a draw would be an improvement. Would be cock-a-hoop with anything approaching a win...(like a draw where we hit the bar more times than them) :-)

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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:48 pm

"Bolton boss Ian Evatt tips Antoni Sarcevic to come back with a bang"

That's a stinker, conceded penalty and probable red card coming up then if his trailing of Greenidge's debut is anything to go by.

Stop it Ian, just shush a bit.
...

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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by Bruce Rioja » Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:08 pm

I wasn't going to bother shelling out for any of the away streams this season, but this game's really imbued the 'must see' spirit within me, and for two quite different reasons. The first being that I don't want to miss it when we come good, but the second, more disturbing attraction is that I truly feel a need to see just how shit we are on a 'first hand' basis at the moment. There's this hollow feeling of somehow having 'missed out' when people have to describe how truly fecking awful we were. :?
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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:28 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:08 pm
There's this hollow feeling of somehow having 'missed out' when people have to describe how truly fecking awful we were. :?
Yes - most folks, myself included just don't have a sufficiently sized lexicon to describe how bad it has been - I ended up following a text stream for Colchester, at one point, I thought "we're in this" :-)

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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by TonyDomingos » Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:03 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:28 pm
Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:08 pm
There's this hollow feeling of somehow having 'missed out' when people have to describe how truly fecking awful we were. :?
Yes - most folks, myself included just don't have a sufficiently sized lexicon to describe how bad it has been - I ended up following a text stream for Colchester, at one point, I thought "we're in this" :-)

I often follow the club's twitter feed: we're in every game until the final whistle, then it's "[insert name of opposition] take the points in a hard fought match." Every week.
Às armas, às armas!
Sobre a terra, sobre o mar,
Às armas, às armas!
Pela Pátria lutar!
Contra os canhões marchar, marchar!

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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:09 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:08 pm
I wasn't going to bother shelling out for any of the away streams this season, but this game's really imbued the 'must see' spirit within me, and for two quite different reasons. The first being that I don't want to miss it when we come good, but the second, more disturbing attraction is that I truly feel a need to see just how shit we are on a 'first hand' basis at the moment. There's this hollow feeling of somehow having 'missed out' when people have to describe how truly fecking awful we were. :?
I agree. There is another part of me though that can take the view of, if I’m not watching it’s not happening...

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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by officer_dibble » Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:44 pm

Saturday has the hallmarks of the Scarborough game that I have heard about, but am not old enough to remember! Even then we were not rock bottom of the football league. Could be an I was there moment. Except none of us are!

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Re: Up Against the Elements. A Match Springs to Life. Their No. 16 is Atomic. Harrogate Town (A) 03/10/20 15:00

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:55 am

officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:44 pm
Saturday has the hallmarks of the Scarborough game that I have heard about, but am not old enough to remember! Even then we were not rock bottom of the football league. Could be an I was there moment. Except none of us are!
Stop it! I'm starting to feel obliged now, to stump up.

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