Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

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GhostoftheBok
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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:31 pm

At least he's aware that he will be out of a job soon if he doesn't sort it.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:39 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:24 pm
I defy anyone to watch the goals we’ve conceded this season and conclude the management team are doing a good job. A bloke has literally run the whole length of the field to score a 95th minute winner. Why did no c*nt take him out at any point?

I don’t have a fecking clue what we are trying to achieve. There is no coherent game plan. The signings are woeful. If we stay up it will be a success now!
I don't think even the management team think the management team is doing a good job.

As for the signings and staying up, yeah. I'd argue that staying up was always going to be a success and that with a wage cap and embargo the signings were always going to be mostly garbage, but that's by the by.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:57 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:31 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 5:55 pm
The first thing to do is to ban passing sideways or back. Just ban it. We are a team that needs tempo. So do everything quickly. Failing that lump it diagonally 40 yards and into touch to get us up the pitch. Simplify the game hugely. Spend as much time in the oppositions half as possible putting balls into their box from all angles. Put a big lad up the middle. There isn’t a magic solution beyond trying to make the game easier and simpler for Limited quality players.
Not at all for me. We've appointed a manager and assembled a squad to a plan of playing a certain way. It's different, and there was always a good chance it could take time.. There have been obvious steps forward for me from the start of the season, albeit we've got from absolute garbage to very bad.

We've gone from looking like conceding everytime they get the ball in the box, to only looking conceding everytime we give the ball away :D

Defensive set pieces are an example where we've gone from hapless to pretty good today.

Noone is suggesting it's fine if we have another 20 games of this, but it's still yet to click going forwards. That will take time with a team of strangers. You can see Doyle act Crawford looking for each other but on different wavelengths.
I don’t agree we are getting better. We are playing worse teams. Today was as bad as anything I can remember.

I can’t see any progress. This isn’t about fine tuning or getting to know each other. Fundamentally we aren’t trying to win games. Evatt has said that two weeks in a row. We aren’t working hard. It needs more than just trying the same thing. It’s needs a manager to get hold of them, simplify the game and find a way of getting results and building confidence. I’ve seen this time after time at this football club. What we are trying to do won’t magically click. It just won’t. We need to change shape, get players in the box and get the ball in there. And be far more compact out of possession. Surrender possession to be more a counterpunch side. The biggest issues are either that nobody knows what they are doing or can’t be bothered doing it. I don’t think there is belief and frankly I worry another 5 games of this and it may well be too late. Don’t let what Coyle did happen again and be blinded by someone talking about football and showing positivity. Evatt has for me, at least pinpointed the awful lack of effort and desire. But now he needs to show some balls and drop those not doing the work and put some in who will.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:59 pm

The suggestion by Iles is we bust the cap by going big, before it.

Embargo and the fact we’ve signed a whole squad buys time, absolutely. But we should be the biggest draw at this level - and plenty of others have signed a lot of new players. It’s an excuse but it’s not going to wash for much longer. They were in pre season training in July.

As I said above if I was a Brittan or Michael James and we are in the relegation mix in November I would summoning my ‘head of football operations’ and head coach in and there would be changes...relegation is game over for this club. We are a darlington plus.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:02 pm

I worry when I hear Evatt talk about a lack of fight and passion. They are problems but aren't responsible for players being awful in possession, lacking in speed of thought or poor positioning.

Tempting as it may be to go back to full on Parky ball, I'd resist it. No other opponents have played that way against us this season but they have pressed our defence more than we do theirs and they have got players forward when they break.

He's got until xmas for me but I think I'll give iFollow a miss for a few games. It's not good for my health. Whoever came up with the idea Stoptober obviously never sat through anything like that. #fookineedabeer
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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:13 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:59 pm
The suggestion by Iles is we bust the cap by going big, before it.

Embargo and the fact we’ve signed a whole squad buys time, absolutely. But we should be the biggest draw at this level - and plenty of others have signed a lot of new players. It’s an excuse but it’s not going to wash for much longer. They were in pre season training in July.

As I said above if I was a Brittan or Michael James and we are in the relegation mix in November I would summoning my ‘head of football operations’ and head coach in and there would be changes...relegation is game over for this club. We are a darlington plus.
Like I said before the season kicked off, the badge doesn't win games. We are a team of rejects led by a rookie manager, playing for a gutted club that needs rebuilding from the ground up.

Coaching staff, from the academy to the senior team, has changed and come from this level and lower. Our recruitment network is gone, having already been gutted to near non-existence over the past decade. Our top class facilities have been sold off.

We are not a premier league outfit. We are a division 4 outfit with a nice stadium. A club with decades of disconnection from the community and in almost terminal decline. All this has to be turned around by non-football people who are learning on the job and think they know what they are doing but clearly don't. Blaggers crewing a ghost ship.

People need a bloody reality check. This is a long, long term recuperation. Not a case of "a top club is stuck in division 4 for a bit", but rather fan base and decent ground might be able to support the building a good club again.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by CrazyHorse » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:14 pm

Yep that's what's needed. Time.
Lets give him a chance to take us down before binning the useless sack of shite off.
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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:15 pm

Also, sorry if my posts are coming across as rude. I'm not annoyed at anyone on here, I'm just sick of losing.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:37 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:15 pm
Also, sorry if my posts are coming across as rude. I'm not annoyed at anyone on here, I'm just sick of losing.
I think that we all are and have been for many years, its embarrassing to be honest we just seem to be going from bad to worse season after season. personally I think that our recruitment has been very naïve, first & foremost we needed a mix of players - some who could play & some roll your sleeves up players with attitude, players who would run through a brick wall, players who would scrap & fight and be proud to play for BWFC, we need a few nasty fcukers - but I don't see any in our squad.

Evatt is absolutely correct in his scathing post match interview - we currently have a 'spineless' soft arse team / squad who think that teams will just sit back and let us play, they hardly break into a sweat and only play at 70% and are half hearted in everything that they do, our tempo is awful our work rate equally awful - but for me our issues are in midfield, our midfield 3 is the issue they are all coasting in every game Comley, Sarcevic, Crawford none of them work hard enough and they play like they are playing pre season friendlies. I don't know the answer from a coaching perspective, but Evatt has to inject some intensity into them all.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:38 pm

Lot of teams in this division made significant squad changes by volume of incoming and outgoing players. I would agree that retaining 5/6 first teamers helps, but they're still looking at 5/6 new recruits too. There ain't many that field the same 9/10 as they had last season with a couple of marquee signings to top them off.

I'd be surprised if we were anything like bottom half on wages. Whilst we've sold some infrastructure, I'd be surprised if what was left (ignoring the stadium) was bottom half of L2.

As I said in previous post, I'm not running at this from a viewpoint of we should be top and never was. We should look better than we currently do, by some distance. Not good enough, which clearly Evatt agrees with.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:55 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:02 pm
It's not good for my health. Whoever came up with the idea Stoptober obviously never sat through anything like that. #fookineedabeer
I nearly made that mistake. Stoptober is smoking. I found out on the 3rd October, at which point I had a beer and rationalized that I'd already missed the boat on tabs. So go get some Buckie down yersel to make up for lost time.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:58 pm

Oh and I forgot to add how on earth young Regan Riley can't get into this midfield is behond me - even after only 1 game he's got size, physicality, movement, energy & desire, more than any of those three showed today. Also why are we so lacking in fitness ?, perhaps its not fitness, perhaps its desire - almost every goal we concede you can see players ambling / strolling back leaving their player free.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:59 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:15 pm
Also, sorry if my posts are coming across as rude. I'm not annoyed at anyone on here, I'm just sick of losing.
Not at all pal. FWIW I didn’t expect us to walk the league - I knew we would have the cup final syndrome v a lot of teams. Buuut I’m with worthy - what we’ve spent and our budget v others - it’s not good enough. And Evatt knows it.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:02 pm

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:58 pm
Oh and I forgot to add how on earth young Regan Riley can't get into this midfield is behond me - even after only 1 game he's got size, physicality, movement, energy & desire, more than any of those three showed today. Also why are we so lacking in fitness ?, perhaps its not fitness, perhaps its desire - almost every goal we concede you can see players ambling / strolling back leaving their player free.
Bang on...he’s shown more bollocks in one game than the rest of the midfield has all season. Unfortunately we can’t rely on him - I’d kill for a lower league Karl Henry to disrupt the opposition and organise our shower.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:15 pm

There's a difference between "not good enough" and "not expected."

It's absolutely not good enough. It is absolutely what I expected.

There is high turnover at this level, sure. Most contracts are short and players tend to be journeymen - but equally there is always the core of a team to build around and clubs have networks to utilise to get players they know through the doors.

We haven't had that. We've had a player strike, the players then walk out and been left with the kids. The coaching staff have gone and we have brought in cheaper alternatives. Evatt has come in and has had to build a squad in short order. I know I've said it before, but if half a dozen turn out to be worth having here for more than a season we'll have done okay. It takes years to establish a proper recruitment network; I'm not sure we've even started to try yet. God only knows what our academy recruitment looks like right now. We will be feeling the effects of this for a decade or more and that's if we start to rebuild now.

Evatt clearly doesn't know most of these lads from Adam. He has brought in a few mates whose attitudes he trusts and then other lads who those mates have recommended. We have then signed a couple of "player of the year" sorts to buck the fans up. The rest have been hit and hope. Proper recruitment looks at character, lifestyle etc as well as ability - even at this level. If recruitment has done its job properly then a head coach shouldn't be surprised by the character of his players - he should have been fully briefed on everything from social media use to information got out of the lad's youth coaches over a pint and rumours about how he treats his wife. We don't have that, so here we are with a manager who says he is shocked by who his players are as men; even though he says they are what he expects in training. This is why managers like Dyche and Wilder don't recruit much from outside the UK. Aside from Dyche's seeming xenophobia, there's also the fact that they simply don't have the network to properly appraise a player from abroad and thus they can't trust their money will buy them the men they want, even if they get the technical ability.

I don't think Phoenix understands football recruitment. It seems like he thinks data tells you all you need to know. It's not even close. Hopefully I am wrong.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:16 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:02 pm
Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:58 pm
Oh and I forgot to add how on earth young Regan Riley can't get into this midfield is behond me - even after only 1 game he's got size, physicality, movement, energy & desire, more than any of those three showed today. Also why are we so lacking in fitness ?, perhaps its not fitness, perhaps its desire - almost every goal we concede you can see players ambling / strolling back leaving their player free.
Bang on...he’s shown more bollocks in one game than the rest of the midfield has all season. Unfortunately we can’t rely on him - I’d kill for a lower league Karl Henry to disrupt the opposition and organise our shower.
I'd kill for any of the players to show just a modicum of passion & desire to win a game of football. Also I'm not sure what you mean by 'we can't we rely on him' - how do we know if we don't play him, he could become the next McAteer ? we need energy & drive in midfield and this lad looks like he has it.

We are talking League 2 here, if he can't get a game or two in our current bottle less, slow as feck midfield then he should be asking his agent for a move ASAP.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by irie Cee Bee » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:38 pm

We have been found out by all the teams. They will press us high because they know we don't have the ability to play the way the coach is coaching us to play. Press and we will lose the ball. If we dont lose it, we will play safe without any penetration as we have no #9 to hold the ball up as an outlet so that players can get close to him.

I saw effort today, but not ability. I believe we have we have a coach who is data driven in training and picks a team accordingly. I see a team trying to play how the coach wants them to play but can't. I see a coach who is out of his depth at this level and is on a learning curve. He needs to learn quickly that data isn't everything. If he doesn't, get someone in who knows the rope to save us from relegation.

PS.. the new lad looked miles better than everyone else in our team despite training once with his teammates. Hope he gets better and not worse as he adopt's to Evatts method.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:42 pm

Any player that was showing "standout" in training Bertie , you'd expect might figure in Evatt's thinking. He (Evatt) pretty much has nowt to lose...so I'd guess whatever we saw, Evatt isn't seeing enough of on a day to day basis...

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:49 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:38 pm
Lot of teams in this division made significant squad changes by volume of incoming and outgoing players. I would agree that retaining 5/6 first teamers helps, but they're still looking at 5/6 new recruits too. There ain't many that field the same 9/10 as they had last season with a couple of marquee signings to top them off.

I'd be surprised if we were anything like bottom half on wages. Whilst we've sold some infrastructure, I'd be surprised if what was left (ignoring the stadium) was bottom half of L2.

As I said in previous post, I'm not running at this from a viewpoint of we should be top and never was. We should look better than we currently do, by some distance. Not good enough, which clearly Evatt agrees with.
Yeah. Anyone who makes out that with the signings we’ve made that we should be in the lower reaches of league two...sorry but now. A solid start with us mid table would be fine. But we are miles away from that. Miles from beating teams like Grimsby and Oldham. Let’s not pretend this is anywhere close to acceptable.

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Re: Oldham or fold em, but no full house in sight..

Post by GhostoftheBok » Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:52 pm

Asking a lad of 17 to step in and run the midfield isn't fair, to be honest. If it were a case of needing to add some enthusiasm to an already functioning group then yeah,throw him in. Throwing him in at the minute risks ruining him and it relies on the psychology of the players around him as to whether it'd make or break him. Do we have lads in the current starting pack who Evatt can pull to one side and say "look after this kid on the pitch for 90 minutes"? Judging by some reactions to younger lads misplacing passes etc I'd say not - we seem to have a lot of players who are selfish.

You don't see a lot of support for Gordon when he makes a mistake.

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