A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:14 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:09 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:03 pm
Yup. The fact we scored three was fairly disconnected from the possession we had and what we did with it. That it could've been 5-5 was testament to how disorganised both sides looked.
Two set pieces and Doyle completely unmarked in the middle of the box. Both sides needed the other to do them favours in order to score. In a way that's typical lower-league stuff, just turned up to 11. I suppose the positive side is that we did score from a couple of set pieces. If we can keep doing that it might save our season.
There were odd signs in Kioso and Gnahoua. But when it boils down to it we've picked up 2 points from 9 from the few teams below us in the league...

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by GhostoftheBok » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:16 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:07 pm
I'm aware of that. I still think we're in big trouble and I I'd prefer us to try playing a more convential system, but this is a new squad who were in dire need of a confidence boost. We found ourselves in a right scrape early on, and we've managed to just about get ourselves out of it. For a group of players who haven't played together before, it might just strengthen their character a bit.
Hopefully.

On the trying a more conventional system bit, Evatt playing a weird system and Evatt playing Brocky on the left wing in a weird system are two different things. I think that if Brockbank started on the right of defence and we had an actual left sided player on the left we win that game of football. As bad as we were in general, Evatt's selection made life harder. That's a worry for me, as selection roulette is a really bad sign when a coach is struggling for results. It looks like disciplining players who have underperformed by making a point (you guys have been so bad I'm playing a centre back in your position), which is okay when you are doing well - it never works when you are flailing.

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by GhostoftheBok » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:25 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:14 pm
There were odd signs in Kioso and Gnahoua. But when it boils down to it we've picked up 2 points from 9 from the few teams below us in the league...
I'll take the minority position and say I thought Gnahoua was mostly garbage. His run selection is terrible and he makes really poor decisions in general play. His cross for the goal was good and he battled, so I appreciated his effort a lot, but I remain unconvinced.

Kioso looks a player at this level.

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:29 pm

Since we're all crossing our fingers for some sort of parallel

https://youtu.be/bWcsaF0O1HY

I'd forgotten an ex player scored against us in that game too
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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:30 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:25 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:14 pm
There were odd signs in Kioso and Gnahoua. But when it boils down to it we've picked up 2 points from 9 from the few teams below us in the league...
I'll take the minority position and say I thought Gnahoua was mostly garbage. His run selection is terrible and he makes really poor decisions in general play. His cross for the goal was good and he battled, so I appreciated his effort a lot, but I remain unconvinced.

Kioso looks a player at this level.
I was looking for Sammy Lee positives...

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by nicholaldo » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:37 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:16 pm
nicholaldo wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:07 pm
I'm aware of that. I still think we're in big trouble and I I'd prefer us to try playing a more convential system, but this is a new squad who were in dire need of a confidence boost. We found ourselves in a right scrape early on, and we've managed to just about get ourselves out of it. For a group of players who haven't played together before, it might just strengthen their character a bit.
Hopefully.

On the trying a more conventional system bit, Evatt playing a weird system and Evatt playing Brocky on the left wing in a weird system are two different things. I think that if Brockbank started on the right of defence and we had an actual left sided player on the left we win that game of football. As bad as we were in general, Evatt's selection made life harder. That's a worry for me, as selection roulette is a really bad sign when a coach is struggling for results. It looks like disciplining players who have underperformed by making a point (you guys have been so bad I'm playing a centre back in your position), which is okay when you are doing well - it never works when you are flailing.

For what it's worth, I thought Brockbank did alright out of position. He clearly wasn't playing as a wing-back, but he was solid enough. I find it hard to believe, on current evidence, that we'd have had more chance of winning if we'd have started Gordon. Mascoll I can't comment on as I've seen very little of him.

As unconvincing as we were, we probably could've sneaked it. Kioso had a great opportunity to score with a header just before half-time, and also a penalty shout a few minutes prior.

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by nicholaldo » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:38 pm

I'll be annoyed if he starts Baptiste on Saturday, though.

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:47 pm

I’d play
Greenidge at LWB and Brockbank in the back 3 rather than Baptiste assuming Gordon/Mascoll both written off. Baptiste looks finished.

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by nicholaldo » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:56 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:47 pm
I’d play
Greenidge at LWB and Brockbank in the back 3 rather than Baptiste assuming Gordon/Mascoll both written off. Baptiste looks finished.

If we stick with a back three I'd rather we persisted with the Brockbank, Santos, Delaney combination. That's if we stick with a back three.

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by TonyDomingos » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:56 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:47 pm
I’d play

That'll do me. Do you know your way to Cambridge?
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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by GhostoftheBok » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:03 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:37 pm
For what it's worth, I thought Brockbank did alright out of position. He clearly wasn't playing as a wing-back, but he was solid enough. I find it hard to believe, on current evidence, that we'd have had more chance of winning if we'd have started Gordon. Mascoll I can't comment on as I've seen very little of him.

As unconvincing as we were, we probably could've sneaked it. Kioso had a great opportunity to score with a header just before half-time, and also a penalty shout a few minutes prior.
Brockbank's attitude is first rate and if Evatt had any doubts about that when he arrived he shouldn't now. He stuck to it on the left, but he was obviously uncomfortable. There were plenty of times when Delaney pushed up and just needed his wingback to get beyond him for us to be in, but Brockbank hung back. Whether because he didn't trust his attacking play or just didn't understand the role I don't know, but we'd have been in a few times if Evatt had picked on of his two natural options there.

You are right that we could have won it even with Evatt's mistakes. That's my concern. We should have won that game comfortably and would have with a better team selection.

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by nicholaldo » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:49 pm

I wouldn't have made those changes to the back line tonight for a number of reasons, but while Brockbank might've been more reticent to get ahead of Delaney he's probably less likely to not track his man when defending. Swings and roundabouts.

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by Prufrock » Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:16 am

The team selection was mental but at least there was a bit of bottle.

How did the front 3 set up? Crawford in behind, or him and Tubbs wide? One thing I haven't quite been able to articulate is how a front two rather than three feck* us with the whole pressing lark. From reading only it'd be Mascoll for Baptiste, and Delf for Crawford on Sat for me.

That's a big first half hour btw. Away at top of the league. Do we kick on and make a show, or flattened by the first good side we've played in a month?
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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:41 am

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:16 am
How did the front 3 set up? Crawford in behind, or him and Tubbs wide? One thing I haven't quite been able to articulate is how a front two rather than three feck* us with the whole pressing lark. From reading only it'd be Mascoll for Baptiste, and Delf for Crawford on Sat for me.
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3-4-1-2. Gnahoua did pop up on the left, notably to cross for Doyle’s goal but on other occasions too, and we got more penetration down that flank than Saturday - but I wouldn’t say Crawford hung right.
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As for the next game - I’d stick with the back three for now. Brockbank to replace Baptiste, Mascoll left. Crawford couldn’t complain if he were dropped but I don’t think Darcy put down a marker in his few minutes. With Delfouneso presumably available Evatt could try him at 10, as he seemed to late on Saturday, but I’m not sure that’s very solid to travel to the leaders...

Meanwhile, Evatt’s reaction:

We can’t start games like that and give away goals but the third goal was at least three yards offside, we seen it back, and it baffles me how you can get that decision so wrong. It wasn’t even tight. I don’t think he was in the same postcode as our defenders,” he said.

“But I am proud of them, I have to say. For the first time this season we have shown fight, we have shown desire, we have shown a set of testicles and you need to sometimes.”

Iles: “Evatt was also involved in a verbal exchange with some of the home staff who were watching from the stands after the final whistle. Taking exception at some of the comments aimed at him through the game, the Bolton head coach felt he was within his right to celebrate Sarcevic’s late goal.”

Evatt: “I just think some people have very small memories and some of the shouts from the stands were very poor throughout the game.

“It’s football and I love Barrow AFC, always have done and always will do. The platform they gave me as a manager and what we did for each other is special and will never be taken away from us.

“I have nothing but admiration for this town, this club and its supporters and nothing will ever change that.

“Football is an emotional game. We’ll celebrate when we win and we won’t when we lose. And when you score a last-minute goal like that – it’s emotional for me because I have never had a chance to say goodbye, see the other players and celebrate the success at the end of last season because of the pandemic. It hurts.

“But I am manager of a fantastic football club now and I am extremely proud of the way my players fought.”

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by The_Gun » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:00 am

I wouldn't profess to be a tactical expert, but I didn't see much wrong with Delaney, Santos and Brockbank at CB, then Mascoll at LWB and Hickman (or now Kioso) at RWB.

Am I wide of the mark in thinking that was actually quite a decent back five?

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by Bertie Wooster » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:29 am

The_Gun wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:00 am
I wouldn't profess to be a tactical expert, but I didn't see much wrong with Delaney, Santos and Brockbank at CB, then Mascoll at LWB and Hickman (or now Kioso) at RWB.

Am I wide of the mark in thinking that was actually quite a decent back five?
If he wants to continue playing his preferred system, then I agree that those 5 are ok - personally however I would like to try Greenidge instead of Brockbank on the right side of the 3, but Brockbank has been steady (ish) as part of the back 3.

However, as was said last night by me & others Evatt seriously needs to stop playing his mate Baptiste - he's past it, his legs have gone and he makes a lot more individual mistakes than any other player, which he also did last time he played with us.

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:48 am

TonyDomingos wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:56 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:47 pm
I’d play

That'll do me. Do you know your way to Cambridge?
I’m quicker than Baptiste and about 5 stone heavier than him!

I’m convinced his selection yesterday was based on character - but to have a bench containing two left wing backs, two left sided centre halves, no keeper and no striker just strikes me as odd.

If Mascoll isn’t up to it - fine. I’ve seen nothing to suggest he should be banging the managers door down. I suspect it’s only because Gordon has started more games that we think Mascoll should start. I said last week I was confused with signing a right wing back when we had Hickman and Jones supposedly not out for too long. I think left wing back has been our poorest attempt at recruitment (alongside the lack of a target man striker).

Personally I would go back to the back four - play Taft, Greenidge or Gordon at left back and Delaney/Santos with Peter K at right back. Comley/Tutte holding and Sarcevic and Crawford/Darcy pushing on. Doyle, the fonz and Hickman or Gnouha (probably Jak at Cambridge) wider.

It gives you a decent right hand side but not much penetration down the left. However it’s preferable than playing Brockbank out of position in my opinion.

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:20 am

The_Gun wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:00 am
I wouldn't profess to be a tactical expert, but I didn't see much wrong with Delaney, Santos and Brockbank at CB, then Mascoll at LWB and Hickman (or now Kioso) at RWB.

Am I wide of the mark in thinking that was actually quite a decent back five?
The problem with it is we're playing 3 centre backs who aren't a solid unit defensively unless the wing backs drop in. Or midfield helps out. And that means we're restricted out wide when we attack. To me its quite clear the system isn't working.

I'd play...

Brockbank Santos Delaney Mascoll
Tutte Comley Sarcevic
Kioso Doyle Gnaouha(or Fonz)

A basic 4-3-3 - get Kioso up there to win headers and use his obvious pace to get at teams.

You can if you like put Hickman in for Brockbank if you want a more attacking full back set up. Tutte and Comley peg down midfield and Sarcevic runs and runs like the old Josh Vela role.

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:31 am

Prufrock wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:16 am
The team selection was mental but at least there was a bit of bottle.

How did the front 3 set up? Crawford in behind, or him and Tubbs wide? One thing I haven't quite been able to articulate is how a front two rather than three feck* us with the whole pressing lark. From reading only it'd be Mascoll for Baptiste, and Delf for Crawford on Sat for me.

That's a big first half hour btw. Away at top of the league. Do we kick on and make a show, or flattened by the first good side we've played in a month?
Crawford was predominantly left mid centre between the HW and the 18 yard area according to his WhoScored heat map. He pops up more advanced on the right, but I suspect that was pretty much all the free-kicks and corners he was taking.

Doyle's heat-map is also more prevalent on the left of centre mid and centre circle.

Arthur popped up both left and right around the 18 yard box line.

No idea how accurate WhoScored heat maps is at an individual level, but that ties in roughly with what I thought I saw :-)

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Re: A Barrow load of trouble. Barrow (A) League 2. 20/10/20 KO 7pm

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