Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by Bruce Rioja » Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:54 pm

Bertie Wooster wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:24 am
Mansfield haven't won a game yet this season, so we all know what's going to happen.
Winless AND Manager-less too, I hear. Ah well.
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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:02 pm

Genuinely no idea what Evatt will do, what the players will do, what I would do, what Mansfield will do or what will happen. Except that I’ll be paying my tenner and watching along with hope in my heart.

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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by TonyDomingos » Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:46 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 11:02 pm
Genuinely no idea what Evatt will do, what the players will do, what I would do, what Mansfield will do or what will happen. Except that I’ll be paying my tenner and watching along with hope in my heart.

I paid my first tenner of the season on Saturday. As I expected, I found it very stressful. So much so that I didn't watch the second half. I can't imagine the circumstances in which I'd do that again in a hurry. I can just about put up with the poor displays and losses (I've had almost 50 years of it), but that constant nauseous feeling I get every time the opposition get in our half is too much. :vomit:
Às armas, às armas!
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Às armas, às armas!
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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:13 am

The_Gun wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:38 pm
Does what the fans think matter? Erm...
Does it matter in terms of the decision-making process of the club when we are now having very little financial impact and are unable to voice dissent at games? We can moan on social media, but that's much less likely to force a reaction from the board than booing in the stadium or threats of match boycotts.

Right now, the fans matter far less than they ever have before in terms of immediate actions by the club.

That may well save Evatt, even if his terrible start continues for a bit.

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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by LeverEnd » Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:54 am

I think what saves Evatt is the sunk cost fallacy. They've gambled massively on this 'project' and 'brand' nonsense and can't (I imagine) afford to just rip it up.
I think they'll try to get him some help first, and if he can't accept he's a struggling rookie and accept it, he deserves to go immediately.
Other option is that they bin him and let TP bring his mate Sol in. Not my first choice but my Macc ST holder friend rates him highly as a defensive organiser.
All speculation of course and, even in a worst case scenario, weeks away from action I'd say.

In the meantime, I like to see a boxer struggle back up off the canvas, so we'll shit em etc etc :oyea:
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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by The_Gun » Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:04 am

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:13 am
The_Gun wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:38 pm
Does what the fans think matter? Erm...
Does it matter in terms of the decision-making process of the club when we are now having very little financial impact and are unable to voice dissent at games? We can moan on social media, but that's much less likely to force a reaction from the board than booing in the stadium or threats of match boycotts.

Right now, the fans matter far less than they ever have before in terms of immediate actions by the club.

That may well save Evatt, even if his terrible start continues for a bit.
You're telling me that the 8,000+ who bought season tickets had 'very little financial impact'? With little prospect of being able to return to stadiums in the near future, you've got more than 8,000 fans who have shelled out decent sums of money for the pleasure of watching a poor team getting beaten on a low quality streaming service. At some point in the not too distant future, the spectre of refunds is likely to rear its head, so I would suggest that FV very much need to be doing what they can to keep the fans on side.

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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by nicholaldo » Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:28 am

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:04 am
GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:13 am
The_Gun wrote:
Sun Nov 01, 2020 5:38 pm
Does what the fans think matter? Erm...
Does it matter in terms of the decision-making process of the club when we are now having very little financial impact and are unable to voice dissent at games? We can moan on social media, but that's much less likely to force a reaction from the board than booing in the stadium or threats of match boycotts.

Right now, the fans matter far less than they ever have before in terms of immediate actions by the club.

That may well save Evatt, even if his terrible start continues for a bit.
You're telling me that the 8,000+ who bought season tickets had 'very little financial impact'? With little prospect of being able to return to stadiums in the near future, you've got more than 8,000 fans who have shelled out decent sums of money for the pleasure of watching a poor team getting beaten on a low quality streaming service. At some point in the not too distant future, the spectre of refunds is likely to rear its head, so I would suggest that FV very much need to be doing what they can to keep the fans on side.

I don't think performances on the pitch would be grounds for a refund, no matter how much people complain. If it were, I can't think of many seasons over the last decade where we'd have had to pay.

I'm generally sceptical about the idea poor performances has a meaningful impact on season ticket sales, as I think the league we play in is a much bigger factor. There aren't very many people who signed up for a season ticket this season who wouldn't sign up regardless in my opinion. The number of season tickets sold must be pretty close to our core support at this level.

However, what I think is different this time is there's the prospect we might not be allowed to physically attend at the start of next season either, in which case it'll be more difficult than ever to convince people to part with their hard earned money. Having a good football team to watch might make a difference. There's plenty of time yet, though.
Last edited by nicholaldo on Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:38 am

Surely the misery of the last 11 years ends at some point? Heads have gone, we need a goal from an unlikely source tomorrow...someone like Brandon Comley shinning a rebound in for a late 1-0 win, after Mansfield have hit the post 46 times...

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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by Bruce Rioja » Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:43 am

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:04 am
At some point in the not too distant future, the spectre of refunds is likely to rear its head
Hmmm, not so sure about that. Let us not forget that the majority of STH's, we hear, forfeited a refund at the end of last season for games which didn't happen.

I'm not sure how the land lies for either party though if those paying in installments decide to stop paying.

As a STH I'm no more inclined to ask for a refund / cancel payments because we're shit than I am to throw a few more Quid in when times are good. Yer pays yer money etc.
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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:11 am

The_Gun wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 9:04 am
You're telling me that the 8,000+ who bought season tickets had 'very little financial impact'? With little prospect of being able to return to stadiums in the near future, you've got more than 8,000 fans who have shelled out decent sums of money for the pleasure of watching a poor team getting beaten on a low quality streaming service. At some point in the not too distant future, the spectre of refunds is likely to rear its head, so I would suggest that FV very much need to be doing what they can to keep the fans on side.
They've got the vast majority of the money they will get out of the fans already. The two weapons fans have if they want a direct influence are money and atmosphere, neither of which is anything like as potent this season as it would be any other season.

Regardless of refunds in the future, the power of fans at clubs is way down this year versus any other period.

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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by The_Gun » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:20 pm

We'll have to disagree on this one, Ghost.

Anyway, what do we do about Crellin? I really don't like the fact we're effectively being punished for another club's player learning his trade on the job. We can't afford a loan player to be making the kind of mistakes he's been making. Our problem is we don't seem to have a viable alternative at this stage. I'd say if he has another poor game tomorrow we have to roll the dice with either Gilks or Alexander.

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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:30 pm

Unfortunately I think Crellin has to start tomorrow. We’ve rather unfortunately left ourselves without an alternative. I think second choice starts in the cup and we go from there. If they don’t get someone lined up to sign at the start of Jan they are even stubborn or we’re bust...

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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:49 pm

Goalkeeper was always the biggest problem position going into this season. Alexander isn't ready and Gilks is essentially retired. We stick with Crellin, for good or ill. Regardless of his failings, we are doing the kid no favours with the total lack of protection we offer him. If you look at clubs where young keepers do well they invariably offer far more protection.

We know Crellin is positionally poor, rash and bad in the air. We can minimise the situations in which those mental weaknesses in his game are exposed, but at the minute are making him worse and not better. A lot of that is on Evatt, for me.

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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 02, 2020 1:56 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:54 am
I think what saves Evatt is the sunk cost fallacy. They've gambled massively on this 'project' and 'brand' nonsense and can't (I imagine) afford to just rip it up.
I think they'll try to get him some help first, and if he can't accept he's a struggling rookie and accept it, he deserves to go immediately.
Other option is that they bin him and let TP bring his mate Sol in. Not my first choice but my Macc ST holder friend rates him highly as a defensive organiser.
All speculation of course and, even in a worst case scenario, weeks away from action I'd say.

In the meantime, I like to see a boxer struggle back up off the canvas, so we'll shit em etc etc :oyea:
What we're struggling with is just basics of having a team who want to play for each other, want to put the hard yards in, the bodies on the line and want to turn up week in and week out and firstly scrap to earn the right to be in games. Evatt himself said this. We're not doing it. We're either acting like big time charlies who think we can just walk it, OR there is a bad atmosphere in the dressing room. Its one or the other - but week after week you see it - the Bradford game was for me the first time where we started a game with proper intensity and at least dug in second half - even though in reality we got a bit lucky. But the hope was having done that we'd start to realise what was required. Then a few days later we start the game looking like we can't be arsed (even Evatt said that) and it gets worse from there.

I'm unconvinced we're tactically bad (I mean we are but I think its minor issue if the players are just half arsed) is our main issue - its finding a way to get 11 who absolutely will scrap for the shirt. In the squad we've got the armory to mean there are goals IF we find a way of just being a bit more basic and being in games for long periods. That takes work, effort, graft, determination. I don't see these qualities.

And that for me is perhaps Evatt's naivety. You can assemble a great squad but if they don't have the blend of characters right and the leaders right and they are all just looking at each other and hoping being good on the ball is enough....well it isn't.

So I don't know what the answer is - I don't really want Evatt sacked TBH because I don't really think it helps massively - the sort of manager we need with the skill level to turn it round isn't an option. So we'd end up with a similar type who doesn't have the full skill set to sort us out. I think Evatt probably thinks he's a better man manager than he is. Sounds like he constantly gets ahead of himself. There are some basics that very easily could be fixed. Put a team out who will physically stand up to the opposition - that's 1. Make sure the 11 are all going to work their socks off 2. And 3 stop making players do things they clearly don't have the confidence or ability to do - simplify it a lot. IF he needs another to help with that then fine but needs to be his idea and someone he'll listen to. Parachuting an old head into this isn't a great idea. A mentor type to me is exactly what he needs but again will he really listen?

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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by GhostoftheBok » Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:59 pm

Attitude is huge, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. I don't think the players don't care or lack fight, I think they look nervous. They don't seem to trust the system or their team mates. When things go wrong there seems to be an air of inevitability about it and when things go right they seem pleasantly surprised. The couple of times they have seemed like they believed in what they were doing we played well.

Where the tactical side of the game comes in is giving players a platform for them perform. The worse the match preparation and tactical ability from the manager the more players have to do on an individual level to win games. A team that is badly prepared for a game will have to play that much better as individuals in order to get a result. You need the belief, the desire and the preparation in order to win - but it starts with the preparation from the manager because that gives the players belief. Allardyce and Dyche are both big on this issue - making the players feel like they will get a result if they just do their job.

I think sacking Evatt would be a mistake, but his side need that platform. They need to walk out knowing what they need to do to win the game. Their part of the bargain is to give 100% for the shirt, which means doing everything they can to execute the game plan.
Last edited by GhostoftheBok on Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by officer_dibble » Mon Nov 02, 2020 5:24 pm

Sounds like Delfonso might be fit to start which would be fecking excellent news. Interestingly the coach journey down has been cited as a possible issue - I thought on Saturday we looked leggy from the off and never recovered. But then to scupper that theory somewhat we went on Friday! Shit hotel? 🤣

Also Miller and Ipsgrove will “be involved” in the squad. So we will have some options on the bench.

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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:22 pm

GhostoftheBok wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 2:59 pm
Attitude is huge, I don't think anyone would disagree with that. I don't think the players don't care or lack fight, I think they look nervous. They don't seem to trust the system or their team mates. When things go wrong there seems to be an air of inevitability about it and when things go right they seem pleasantly surprised. The couple of times they have seemed like they believed in what they were doing we played well.

Where the tactical side of the game comes in is giving players a platform for them perform. The worse the match preparation and tactical ability from the manager the more players have to do on an individual level to win games. A team that is badly prepared for a game will have to play that much better as individuals in order to get a result. You need the belief, the desire and the preparation in order to win - but it starts with the preparation from the manager because that gives the players belief. Allardyce and Dyche are both big on this issue - making the players feel like they will get a result if they just do their job.

I think sacking Evatt would be a mistake, but his side need that platform. They need to walk out knowing what they need to do to win the game. Their part of the bargain is to give 100% for the shirt, which means doing everything they can to execute the game plan.
Allardyce and Dyche both simplify what each individual needs to do. And like you say build a team structure within that, it builds belief and also they both get 11 absolutely busting a gut.

The skill there is not just making it easy it’s also knowing how to get the group motivated and believing in the plan. I suspect Evatt just thought he could do this but has found out here he cannot. And now has to work at it, The issue might be that like many he says the right things but doesn’t really know how to implement it. Gary Neville in other words..easy saying...harder to actually do....

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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by Prufrock » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:30 pm

Or these things take time. Could be that. We were always going to be up and down early doors. It's been more down that most of us expected, but let's see how they respond again. Stuff like spirit takes time.
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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:40 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Nov 02, 2020 6:30 pm
Or these things take time. Could be that. We were always going to be up and down early doors. It's been more down that most of us expected, but let's see how they respond again. Stuff like spirit takes time.
Absolutely they take time. Hand on heart though have you seen any signs that over time things are getting better? I honestly can’t say this is the case. We showed a bit of something for a couple of games and the Bradford win would have been a springboard. But even in that win we were wholly unconvincing in the second half.

I’m not convinced we are any better than when we started I suspect our performances merely reflect the opposition we are up against. I’d say any team who are busy, press us and have a little bit going forwards will beat us. Bradford had Donaldson up front and we clung on which was good but I’m not convinced it represented progress.

The things Evatt promised were pressing, attacking football, expansive system with width and keeping the ball. We don’t do any of those things. In fact just about every team we’ve played have pressed better than we have, and looked fitted and stronger. Which I’m not sure we have an excuse for as we were back longer than most others as Evatt wanted two weeks extra.

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Re: Growing a pair at the UniBol. Man(up)sfield at home. Tuesday 3rd Nov 7pm.

Post by The_Gun » Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:24 am

Sounds like Fonz is in the mix and Darcy will definitely start tonight. Both big positives for me.

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