Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

Moderator: Zulus Thousand of em

Post Reply
User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 19288
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:11 pm

We're six weeks from the January transfer window, and Ian Evatt has already got some ideas.

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/1 ... -thinking/
We know where we are at, financially. I've spoken to the board and there’s room because we have kept ourselves sustainable and within budget. There is room to bring players in. I think we are three or four light. If we can add those bits of quality to what we already have in certain areas of the pitch then we’ll only improve. The challenge for us is to make sure that we are in contact of the upper echelons of the table when it comes to January because if we are, we’ll only progress.

We don’t have to move people on because of the Under-21s situation, they don’t count (in the quota), and we have quite a few of those. Muhammadu Faal has gone out on loan. But the reality is that if we’re bringing people in then there are people who are not playing who’ll need to go out and play. There will be opportunities for players to go out on loan if they want to play but we don’t need to, it would be my choice for them to go and get regular football rather than be sat in the stands here.
Marc Iles says "it is understood a goalkeeper will be one of the key positions Wanderers are looking to strengthen," and also that "Evatt knows that investment in new arrivals will hang on how far away the Whites are from the top seven going into the New Year, however, as the club’s owners are unwilling to take unnecessary financial risks."

So, besides a new keeper and new left wingback, who would you target? And who would you try to jog on?

On the latter, and bearing in mind Evatt’s comments above, the table below shows first-team minutes played this season, league and cup, ahead of Stevenage away. Ironically enough the guy at the top can reasonably expect to be replaced but presumably we should also be looking at some members go the right-hand column – not so much the kids and the injury cases as those like Mascoll and Greenidge who currently occupy squad places and wage-bill room.
.
minutes.jpg
minutes.jpg (27.8 KiB) Viewed 1621 times
.
Problem one: who would take them? National League and National League North/South (the regional Division Six) are still playing, so they might be willing to give them some minutes - but presumably only if we pay a sizeable slice of their wage, considering they’re getting no gate money and less of the laughable “trickle-down” from football’s top tables.

Problem two: would they go? You can possibly imagine Greenidge being prepared to get some game-time – given his CV, he obviously ain’t too proud to wander around the leagues – but Mascoll might baulk at the idea of a non-league loan six months after being promoted to the Championship. As it happens, he knows non-league well having spent most of his career there – but that might only mean he’s more determined not to return.

Problem three: will Evatt actually let them go? With Brockbank injured we’re down to five centre-backs, which is only a bad game from bare bones. Presumably he’d be happy with shipping out Mascoll if we get a new LWB – but he’d presumably want to kick the new guy’s tyres a while, considering he’s just had the experience of square-pegging when the first two choices aren’t up to scratch.

truewhite15
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 2218
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:25 pm

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by truewhite15 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:54 pm

I can see Crellin and White having their loans cut short. I can also see Greenidge, Mascoll, Comley and potentially Gordon and Hickman being actively moved on.

GK, LWB, DM and ST must be the positions we look to strengthen. Gilks is good in goal temporarily, but given that he was brought in as coach we've got to be looking at a full time keeper. LWB is a problem position in that neither of the options we brought in look like they're really making the grade at the minute. And we need proper competition for Tutte and up front.

Harry Genshaw
Legend
Legend
Posts: 7624
Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2005 10:47 pm
Location: Half dead in Panama

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Harry Genshaw » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:21 pm

truewhite15 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:54 pm
I can see Crellin and White having their loans cut short. I can also see Greenidge, Mascoll, Comley and potentially Gordon and Hickman being actively moved on.
Agree on Crellin. I think he'll give White longer as he knows him and even we've seen that there is a player in there somewhere.

I'll be shocked though if any of the names you refer to, get moved on. Hickman, has looked quite promising and I expect him to get more game time off the bench in the coming months. The others are going nowhere either. Mainly because no bugger would take them!
"Get your feet off the furniture you Oxbridge tw*t. You're not on a feckin punt now you know"

Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 20685
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Prufrock » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:24 pm

In order, I think we need: GK, LWB, striker winger.

And to get rid of: Mascoll, Comley, Crellin.

Take the point on centre backs but there's still theoretically Edwards, and Jones can no doubt do a job there.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 19288
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:29 pm

truewhite15 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:54 pm
I can see Crellin and White having their loans cut short. I can also see Greenidge, Mascoll, Comley and potentially Gordon and Hickman being actively moved on.

GK, LWB, DM and ST must be the positions we look to strengthen. Gilks is good in goal temporarily, but given that he was brought in as coach we've got to be looking at a full time keeper. LWB is a problem position in that neither of the options we brought in look like they're really making the grade at the minute. And we need proper competition for Tutte and up front.
Crellin will go back but I think White might stay unless we get more alternatives. Hickman's not looked worthy of being shoved out - looked promising and is now being kept out of the team by a higher-division player.

Greenidge, Gordon and Comley all have 18 months left on their contracts, which won't help shift them. I suspect Evatt might think he can shape the first two into players, given time, while he must be thinking Comley is better than has shown.

For the record, the other players contracted beyond June are Santos, Taft, Liam Edwards (yes really), Sarce, Darce, Crawf, Dennis, Delf and Doyler - all till 2022 bar Doyle (2023).

On your second paragraph, I couldn't agree more. Although we technically have Doyle, Delf, Miller, Gnahoua and sort-of Isgrove competing for places, Gnahoua's sort of a freebie, Miller's old and creaky, and Isgrove's a winger.

truewhite15
Passionate
Passionate
Posts: 2218
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:25 pm

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by truewhite15 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:58 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:29 pm
truewhite15 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:54 pm
I can see Crellin and White having their loans cut short. I can also see Greenidge, Mascoll, Comley and potentially Gordon and Hickman being actively moved on.

GK, LWB, DM and ST must be the positions we look to strengthen. Gilks is good in goal temporarily, but given that he was brought in as coach we've got to be looking at a full time keeper. LWB is a problem position in that neither of the options we brought in look like they're really making the grade at the minute. And we need proper competition for Tutte and up front.
Crellin will go back but I think White might stay unless we get more alternatives. Hickman's not looked worthy of being shoved out - looked promising and is now being kept out of the team by a higher-division player.

Greenidge, Gordon and Comley all have 18 months left on their contracts, which won't help shift them. I suspect Evatt might think he can shape the first two into players, given time, while he must be thinking Comley is better than has shown.

For the record, the other players contracted beyond June are Santos, Taft, Liam Edwards (yes really), Sarce, Darce, Crawf, Dennis, Delf and Doyler - all till 2022 bar Doyle (2023).

On your second paragraph, I couldn't agree more. Although we technically have Doyle, Delf, Miller, Gnahoua and sort-of Isgrove competing for places, Gnahoua's sort of a freebie, Miller's old and creaky, and Isgrove's a winger.
To clarify, when I said "actively moved on", I meant in terms of being "transfer listed" or similar, rather than unceremoniously chopping up the contract!

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 19288
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:34 pm

truewhite15 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:58 pm
To clarify, when I said "actively moved on", I meant in terms of being "transfer listed" or similar, rather than unceremoniously chopping up the contract!
:mrgreen:

Yep, fair enough, but being listed (which is an admission of defeat by the club) or even unofficially being made available doesn't mean they'll leave – especially as they may quite rightly wish to protect the 18 months of their contracts.

Say for example that we're paying someone a grand a week (a fictional but typical 4th Division wage) until June 2022. In the next transfer window we'll still owe him £75,000, unless someone else offers to pay him a grand a week (which, given we want shut, is doubtful). Say they offer him £500 a week – he'd be losing £37,000. This is why players try to negotiate some sort of settling-up of at least part of their contract – if the 'old' club really want him off the books, they might take a slight hit and pay up some of the money they're contractually obliged to pay him. However, in our position, I doubt we'd be paying tens of thousands just to minimise a loss.

If on the other hand he's only contracted till June, we only owe him like £25,000, and it's much easier to find an affordable middle ground.

Branagan
Hopeful
Hopeful
Posts: 94
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:55 am

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Branagan » Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:12 pm

Know this sounds crazy when we have a 38 year old coach in goal but... Id actually feel nervous replacing Gilks at the moment. What with the impact he seems to have had on confidence and organisation.

User avatar
sonicthewhite
Hopeful
Hopeful
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:55 pm
Location: Telford

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by sonicthewhite » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:01 am

Branagan wrote:
Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:12 pm
Know this sounds crazy when we have a 38 year old coach in goal but... Id actually feel nervous replacing Gilks at the moment. What with the impact he seems to have had on confidence and organisation.
Agree with this but we could either look to loan a young keeper from a higher division that already has league experience OR look to get in an Alnwick/Howard to challenge Gilks and act as cover for him.
Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill!

Prufrock
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 20685
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Prufrock » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:10 am

feck young goalkeepers. Basically all keepers below the champ are terrible. We just need competence. Gilks is fine until Jan. Bin off Crellin, try to find someone else 3D and solid and they can fight for it.
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

User avatar
sonicthewhite
Hopeful
Hopeful
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:55 pm
Location: Telford

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by sonicthewhite » Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:20 am

Sheff Utd did alright with Henderson :wink:
Age and treachery will always overcome youth and skill!

officer_dibble
Legend
Legend
Posts: 9898
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:40 am

Gilkes has been a massive improvement. But 1) He wants to coach, and 2) there’s no way he’s playing 3 games a week for the rest of the season - he looked labored when tested tonight. He’ll pick up a strain at some point. I wouldn’t necessarily bring someone in and drop him but I don’t want to have to play the clown again.

The_Gun
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by The_Gun » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:19 am

officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:40 am
Gilkes has been a massive improvement. But 1) He wants to coach, and 2) there’s no way he’s playing 3 games a week for the rest of the season - he looked labored when tested tonight. He’ll pick up a strain at some point. I wouldn’t necessarily bring someone in and drop him but I don’t want to have to play the clown again.
There's surely no chance Crellin plays for us again unless Gilks gets injured before January.

Even though we clearly need to bring a keeper in, it looks like it's probably going to be very difficult to find an appropriate candidate. The only free agents I can see having done a brief scan of Transfermarkt are mostly of a similar age to Gilks and don't necessarily look like they'd be an upgrade on him. I only looked at players who last played in the bottom three divisions of England, so I suppose there is a chance we could bring in a free agent from Scotland or further afield, but that seems unlikely in the current situation.

I would imagine there will be some young keepers playing higher up the leagues who will be made available for loan, but I doubt their clubs are going to want to let them join us if they think they're going to be Gilks' back-up. Given our recent experiences I also think it's probably unlikely we're going to bring in a young loan keeper to be our number one for the remainder of the season. Maybe that would be different if they were coming from a top Prem team, but I still don't think that would go down well with the fans.

Let's hope that Big Toby P has got a rabbit to pull out of his money ball hat.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 19288
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:50 am

The_Gun wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:19 am
officer_dibble wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 8:40 am
Gilkes has been a massive improvement. But 1) He wants to coach, and 2) there’s no way he’s playing 3 games a week for the rest of the season - he looked labored when tested tonight. He’ll pick up a strain at some point. I wouldn’t necessarily bring someone in and drop him but I don’t want to have to play the clown again.
There's surely no chance Crellin plays for us again unless Gilks gets injured before January.

Even though we clearly need to bring a keeper in, it looks like it's probably going to be very difficult to find an appropriate candidate. The only free agents I can see having done a brief scan of Transfermarkt are mostly of a similar age to Gilks and don't necessarily look like they'd be an upgrade on him. I only looked at players who last played in the bottom three divisions of England, so I suppose there is a chance we could bring in a free agent from Scotland or further afield, but that seems unlikely in the current situation.

I would imagine there will be some young keepers playing higher up the leagues who will be made available for loan, but I doubt their clubs are going to want to let them join us if they think they're going to be Gilks' back-up. Given our recent experiences I also think it's probably unlikely we're going to bring in a young loan keeper to be our number one for the remainder of the season. Maybe that would be different if they were coming from a top Prem team, but I still don't think that would go down well with the fans.

Let's hope that Big Toby P has got a rabbit to pull out of his money ball hat.
LOL at your Transfermarkt search - I did precisely the same thing and was so downhearted with the results I forgot to post them :mrgreen: Here they are though, for the record:
Conrad Logan (34, 6ft 2in, Irish) has made 200-odd lower-league appearances for Boston, Stockport, Luton, Bristol Rovers, Rotherham. Rochdale and Mansfield, plus a brief but exciting spell at Hibs which included making two saves in a Scottish Cup semi-final penalty shootout, being dropped by Alan Stubbs anyway, coming back for the promotion play-offs (they lost), then playing in the Scottish Cup final (they won 3-2), then being released.

Sacha Bastien (25, French) signed a six-month deal with Stevenage in summer 2019, later extended to a year, but was released with 21 others in summer after playing four games (W2 D1 L1, conceded 3/0/1/0).

Jonny Maddison (26, 6ft 4in, Geordie) left Port Vale last season. Former Sunderland Academy lad, later played League Two football for Yeovil.

There’s Ben Alnwick, of course, depending on how he is. Turns 34 on New Year’s Day.

Popping further up, there’s a clutch of mid-30s keepers last seen in the Champo:

Lewis Price (36, 6ft 3in) left Rotherham a fortnight ago to “seek an opportunity elsewhere” - manager Paul Warne said “Pricey has been excellent... I was sad to see him go but I couldn’t stand in the way of a great opportunity for him.” He doesn't seem to have turned up anywhere since, though.

Lee Camp (36, 6ft 0in) was training at Sheff Wednesday last month with his old Blues boss Garry Monk, who’s now left the building.

Niki Maenpaa (35, 6ft 3in, Finnish) left Bristol City in the summer - was first-choice for about half of the 18/19 season. Looks like he's signing for Stoke

Paul Jones (34, 6ft 3in) – not the lad that played for Southampton but the Maidstone-born former Exter, Peterborough, Crawley and Portsmouth goalkeeper who in recent years has been on the books at Norwich, Exeter, Fleetwood and Sheffield Wednesday but has only played four senior games - all cups - since summer 2016. In case you're wondering, he didn't coincide at Fleetwood with Gilks, but will be known to Crellin and Gethin Jones.

Luke Steele (36, 6ft 2in) is a Peterborough-born former Barnsley keeper who then spent three years with Panathinaikos - the old Barnsley-to-Athens shuffle. Since returning in 2017 he has played 19 games for Bristol City, Forest and Millwall.
In short, as noted, all the good ones are employed. There are loads of thirtysomething goalkeepers knocking about as second- or third-choice, and if they weren't prepared to accept that in summer you wonder whether they would now. I guess it would be better to have two senior goalkeepers than one plus Alexander (plus possibly poor broken Crellin) but I think we're more likely to loan in someone who is way down the pecking order and is neither particularly old (why bother?) or young (why risk it?). Suggesting who that might be would take a lot of research...

officer_dibble
Legend
Legend
Posts: 9898
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by officer_dibble » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:18 am

Luke Steele was a good keeper. Emphasis on was!

Gilkes has looked competent and it takes him about 5 minutes to start a dive! I think it’s mentally competent as much as anything.

Last time I checked Remi Matthews hadn’t played much this season.

The_Gun
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by The_Gun » Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:15 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:18 am
Luke Steele was a good keeper. Emphasis on was!

Gilkes has looked competent and it takes him about 5 minutes to start a dive! I think it’s mentally competent as much as anything.

Last time I checked Remi Matthews hadn’t played much this season.
You reckon Sunderland would loan Matthews to us? I'd say they'd probably rather keep him as back-up.

The_Gun
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by The_Gun » Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:19 pm

In contrast to the GK situation, the other two positions I think we need to strengthen most urgently (CM and LWB) should be much easier to fill using the loan market. Hopefully the fact we're now starting to play some good stuff and string some wins together will serve to encourage Prem and Championship clubs that we are a good spot for their emerging talents. Another Kioso for the left would be larvely.

User avatar
Dave Sutton's barnet
Immortal
Immortal
Posts: 19288
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 4:00 pm
Location: Hanging on in quiet desperation
Contact:

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:15 pm

Some entirely conjectural projections based on League One clubs who have spare goalkeepers in their 20s...

Plymouth signed 22-year-old Glaswegian Jack Ruddy on a short-term contract in September when their back-up goalie Luke McCormick (yep, that one) was injured. He's back now and on the bench instead of Ruddy, a former Scotland U21 international who started on Rangers' books before moving to Real Murcia, then Bury, Wolves, Oldham, Ayr, Spanish lower-league sides FC Jumilla and S.S. Reyes, Ross County and Leganés. His contract is up in January, although assistant manager Steven Schumacher said “You like to have three training goalkeepers anyway. It just works better, the flow of everything, and when we do our small-sided games... Jack has come in and kept the training tempo so high. He trains like a machine and he’s a good goalkeeper."

MK Dons have ip-dipped - Lee Nicholls (28, scouser, was at Wigan 2010-16 but loaned out) started as first-choice but has been replaced by ex-Blackburn 22-year-old Andy Fisher; with 31-year-old Laurie Walker also at the club, there might be a path for Nicholls to come back north. In summer, the local press seemed content with Nicholls "learning to play in [Russell] Martin's style of football, primarily with the ball at his feet," but in late October Martin dropped him for Fisher.

Having signed in summer, Bolton-born former Huddersfield goalkeeper Joel Coleman (age 25) has only been in the matchday squad twice for Fleetwood, but it remains to be seen as to whether they'd lend us another keeper if we send them back a badly bent Crellin.

officer_dibble
Legend
Legend
Posts: 9898
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 9:33 pm
Location: Leeds

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by officer_dibble » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:43 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:15 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:18 am
Luke Steele was a good keeper. Emphasis on was!

Gilkes has looked competent and it takes him about 5 minutes to start a dive! I think it’s mentally competent as much as anything.

Last time I checked Remi Matthews hadn’t played much this season.
You reckon Sunderland would loan Matthews to us? I'd say they'd probably rather keep him as back-up.
I was thinking along the lines of DSBs suggestion of keepers that were of an age where they should want to play not be dicking about in training.

The_Gun
Reliable
Reliable
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue May 22, 2018 9:54 am

Re: Making HMS YouKnowWhat ship-shape: Winter 20/21 transfer thread

Post by The_Gun » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:54 pm

I’d definitely take Matthews back, but I suppose we either declined to offer him a contract or he turned us down in the summer, so perhaps that ship has sailed.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 47 guests