Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

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Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:44 pm

Five straight wins then two bad losses – one a curious panning, the other a sickening slide from control to bully victims - leave Bolton vulnerable in only their second ever game against Gloucestershire's less eco-cuddly side. (We lost the only previous game, four long and largely painful years ago in a Sherpa Van group, to a 90th-minute penalty. No, me either.)

Changes were not forthcoming after the Vale of tears but at least one will be necessary here, as Peter Kioso is injured (he'll be back for Saturday, apparently). That's a significant blow as an out-ball but it also gives Evatt a quandary. He could switch the very right-footed Gethin Jones from left wingback, which would probably mean selecting a player he has long overlooked – probably Gordon or Mascoll, less probably Greenidge or Taft.

Alternative right-footer Jak Hickman may be excited to hear his boss somewhat belatedly realise that Doyle might do well if we cross to him, although Evatt specifying balls along the floor might exclude the boy's Beckhamesque curved aerial crosses. Another option out left is Harry Brockbank, whom Marc Iles perhaps surprisingly mentions as being back fit, but he's another right-sider.

It's therefore possible Evatt could ask George Thomason to bring his energy, vision and long passing to the left flank rather than the vital defensive midfield hub, but that would presumably mean re-elevating either the crablike Comley or the willing but erratic White. That would allow him to keep faith with the kid without exposing him in the middle, and although it is another positional big ask Evatt has not shown himself scared of that before.

There's another big decision to be made slightly further forward: whether to drop the sub-par Ali Crawford. Evatt hasn't been shy of subbing the Scot but has picked him in the first XI for all bar two of the season's first three games (proper, ignoring the Sherpa Van). Lloyd Isgrove is COVID-negative but positive in possession and Evatt might prefer his direct running and crossing to Crawford's increasingly overelaborate Hollywood balls, but that could require a switch to more of a front three, theoretically weakening the midfield structure (ignoring carped caveats about Crawford's lack of presence). Another option would be the energetic and daring Darcy or, again, Thomason in a more active and less responsible role, playing as one of the two "free 8s" alongside Sarcevic in front of a sitter like White, Comley or possibly even the savvy Gethin Jones while we're changing things.

As for Cheltenham, last season's fourth-placed finishers and this season's second-placed contenders will be supported by the first live crowd in months, perhaps augmented by one or two sneaky buggers of a Whites persuasion. Evatt has made a big play of their long throws but one of the tasks for this young manager is how not to sound like a sourpuss about opposition methods. Every game features two teams, and you only have control over one of them. Time to step up and take firmer control. A draw might do, but in a tight division in constant flux the performance might be more important than the result. COYWM.

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:38 pm

He’s starting to sound like every other manager v us under Allardyce. I’d rather we mixed it up. Needs a big performance from Sarcevic tonight - as disappointing as Crawford has been we haven’t seen the captain do enough for a few games.

I wonder if Brockbank will just get dropped back into the side - possibly on the left with Jones on the right? I’ll be surprised if Gordon or Mascoll starts to be honest. I’d play Hickman and drop Crawford for White or Comley to give the midfield a better balance.

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by Bruce Rioja » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:10 pm

Has he come out with "You know what you're going to get against (insert opponents)" yet? Merely a matter of time, I suspect.

Anyway, we'll lose 2-0 tonight.
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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:16 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:10 pm
Has he come out with "You know what you're going to get against (insert opponents)" yet? Merely a matter of time, I suspect.
Sort of, but also sort of I Know Better.
It’ll be a tough test. They're a lot more direct than I thought they would be. I have had a good look at them – I was up at 4.30am watching them. They pose a different threat to what I’d heard about them. People tell me that last season they played football, and I see some of that, but mostly I see long throws coming in from both sides from 30, 40, 50 yards out, Rory Delap-esque throws that go under your crossbar. I see set pieces, physicality and presence in the opposition box. It’ll be a tough battle standing up to that, so we have to stay calm and composed, making sure we clear our box better than we did on Saturday, then hurt them on the counter attack, which we have done to most teams now for a period of time.

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:22 pm

The long throw is a difficult thing to defend against. Whilst Sam used it effectively when Jay Jay's legs were going, he also struggled against it when Tranmere had Dave Challinor launching them in from the halfway line. Does anyone else remember the advertising hoardings being pushed together pre match to curb his run ins?

Whilst we're blessed with big centre halves, none of them have looked particularly convincing in the air, so any throw ins conceded in our half present a problem. A bigger issue though is that one or two still dont know what their role is, and Evatt is still insisting on hammering square pegs into round holes. No left sided wing back doesnt have to be answered by shoving a right sided midfielder there and hoping for the best.

I used my optimism up last Saturday. 1-4 defeat.
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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:59 pm

To be honest the square pegs of Jones and Brockbank at left wing back have been solutions I applaud him for. Miles better than the players we actually signed to play there!

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:17 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:59 pm
To be honest the square pegs of Jones and Brockbank at left wing back have been solutions I applaud him for. Miles better than the players we actually signed to play there!
I agree that it's worked to a better extent than I expected, particularly for Brockbank, although that might just be in comparison to Mascoll/Gordon – or, perhaps, a better run of results since. Arguably a bit chicken/egg, that one. More mentions of square pegs re Gethin since we lost two on the bounce, or did we lose two on the bounce partly because of square peggery?

But with Phoenix gone it's a politically interesting selection quandary. At the moment, Evatt can to an extent make out that Mascoll and Gordon (or any poor players) are "Phoenix signings"; if he starts picking them again it weakens that argument and perhaps gives him more ownership of the problem.

Take it down to brass tacks. If he wants crosses in the box, who are the best wingbacks? I'd say Hickman right, on the left <blows out cheeks> I'd genuinely try Thomason. But does he switch to a 3-4-3 with fewer in the middle but perhaps more defensively solid wingbacks, say Jones and Brocky or even Taft?

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by TANGODANCER » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:51 pm

"Robins, don't forget the Robins! "

Oh, they mean Christmas feathered ones...Let's not be feeding the other sort any festive presents. Being honest,all I know about Cheltenham is they have a Gold Cup horse-race there annually and they're up north aways from Bolton on the current league table.(2nd against 16th) although 11 points difference isn't the end of the world. This is another "hit and hope" fixture with the only consistency being inconsistency. Let's hope we revert to winning ways and get a precious 3 points (One will have to do I suppose) so, all that's left is to say......COME ON YOU WHITES...... :oyea: :oyea: :oyea:
Si Deus pro nobis, quis contra nos?

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Dec 15, 2020 3:52 pm

Greenidge might be an option on the left as well?

Personally I’d rip the whole thing up and play Jones RB Baptiste Delaney and Taft or Brockbank LB
Comley DM
Sarce & Darcy/Thomason CM
Hickman right Isgrove left
Doyle
So a 451

Means dropping Santos...and Delf but I think he’s due a breather.

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by Bertie Wooster » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:09 pm

Lose probably about 3-1 or 3-0, players won't be strong enough & will likely get bullied again by a team much more combative and aggressive.

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:16 pm

A grand read DSB thank you. I was quite surprised at the no change team on Saturday. Thomason stepped up on the "stick yer head in where it hurts, son" front, but as noted by the commentator this led to some periods getting attended to by the physio. But he showed some decent forward touches in an imbalanced team.

Kioso creates another gap, as he's generally performed quite well.

Ali feels like he's becoming a bigger problem as "he's marked out of the game" seems to be coming the vernacular for "not driving us forward" I don't think this is about how far he's running per game, as opposed to where he's running and what he's doing at the end if it. He's had second most shots behind Doyle, with only 20% of them hitting the target, so all round it's not great reading (albeit 4 assists I think is still.joint second in the Div).

Being dominant for 40 mins out of 90 is not a recipe for success so we need to see spunk. Lots of it.

Be interesting to see who he picks as it's only last week where he said people not in the team, not worth the ticket price. On that basis we might just see some sort of "direct" replacement only for Kioso, with maybe a positional rejig. So perhaps Brocky coming back and switching Jones to right.

If we're like the last two games, we're likely leaving with our tails between legs.

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:32 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 2:59 pm
To be honest the square pegs of Jones and Brockbank at left wing back have been solutions I applaud him for. Miles better than the players we actually signed to play there!
They both did very well compared to the hapless Gordon and Mascoll but the formation doesnt necessarily have to be symmetrical. If we've no natural left sided midfielder or wing back, how about playing without one?
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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:53 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:16 pm
Thomason stepped up on the "stick yer head in where it hurts, son" front, but as noted by the commentator this led to some periods getting attended to by the physio. But he showed some decent forward touches in an imbalanced team.
Quick one on this. I like Steve Eyre (liked his dad Fred too, and his brother Pubic) but I disagreed with how central he thought Thomason's injury was to the equaliser: by the time Crawford was elbow-chopped to the ground, Thomason was right there with him. The fault there is the ref's and the defence's, not the kid's – even if Eyre is right that he has something to learn.
Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:16 pm
Kioso creates another gap, as he's generally performed quite well.
He's been our best out-ball for two months. I hope we don't miss him as much as I suspect we will, not so much for his ability when he gets it (promising but erratic) as his existence as the closest thing to a target man.
Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:16 pm
Ali feels like he's becoming a bigger problem as "he's marked out of the game" seems to be coming the vernacular for "not driving us forward" I don't think this is about how far he's running per game, as opposed to where he's running and what he's doing at the end if it. He's had second most shots behind Doyle, with only 20% of them hitting the target, so all round it's not great reading (albeit 4 assists I think is still.joint second in the Div).
I'm not getting deep into The Crawford Thing but let's just say he's underperforming. Again, I think it will be interesting to see how we play without him. A change of formation may take the direct comparison out of it but if we're going like for like, I don't think Isgrove suits being a 10; Darcy would be better but at shorter range, which as I say might not be a bad thing – Crawford has been looking for, and generally failing to find, the longer balls.
Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:16 pm
Being dominant for 40 mins out of 90 is not a recipe for success so we need to see spunk. Lots of it.
This, too. Evatt is IMO wrong when he says we're the best team in the league with the ball – given we have it for around 60% of the time, we should therefore be beating most teams with ease – but he's dead right that we have to get better without it.
Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 4:16 pm
Be interesting to see who he picks as it's only last week where he said people not in the team, not worth the ticket price. On that basis we might just see some sort of "direct" replacement only for Kioso, with maybe a positional rejig. So perhaps Brocky coming back and switching Jones to right.
I thought he'd said that, but couldn't find the quote (was going to mention it re Gordon/Mascoll/whoever).

If someone comes back in and stars, I'll let him claim it as motivation. Either way, there are at least half a dozen players who must be wondering about their future. They might not get an opportunity unless it's forced, so I hope someone grabs that chance tonight.

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:41 pm

I didn't see it the same way as Steve Eyre either, in terms of the goal, but it did feel like the young un was off the pitch for maybe 5 mins? over the 90. Hopefully that was just an unlucky game.

I'm ready to see a Crawfordless game because he's been so bad, we should comfortably get to HMS level by playing my gran. :-)

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:53 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:41 pm
I didn't see it the same way as Steve Eyre either, in terms of the goal, but it did feel like the young un was off the pitch for maybe 5 mins? over the 90. Hopefully that was just an unlucky game.

I'm ready to see a Crawfordless game because he's been so bad, we should comfortably get to HMS level by playing my gran. :-)
Get ready, then: Isgrove and Greenidge come in for Crawford and Kioso.

One of those is a straight swap which may or may not require a formation tweak. The other is less straightforward. Greenidge at LWB, Jones RWB? Or Baptiste RWB with Greenidge reprising his RCB role from the Sherpa Van win over Newcastle?

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by officer_dibble » Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:59 pm

I’m guessing it’s Greenidge LWB. Worth a go I think. Fingers crossed.

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by brommers95 » Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:08 pm

I’m really not sold on Greenidge, not quite sure what Taft has done wrong. Based on the little we’ve seen of them both, Taft, while by no means perfect, has looked a lot more capable. Greenidge must look like a world beater in training.

Has the potential to get rather ugly tonight. Jones, for all his defensive solidity, rarely gives us an attacking spark and I can’t imagine Greenidge (if it is him at LWB) bombing down the wing and whipping balls in. I’m wondering where the attacking impetus will come from. Think we’ll struggle to get out of our own half.

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by Worthy4England » Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:14 pm

Fair points Brommers. Doyle and Delf might be able to write their Christmas Cards. Let's see how it rolls.

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:18 pm

As usual, Brommers has a point but maybe by accident or design this is the "3-4-3 with more defensive WBs" that I mentioned. Let the front three do the creative stuff while the others seek solidity. Penetration may be a problem but we have a passer in Thommo and a runner in Sarce.

(For the record, I like Taft too but it seems Evatt's less sold on him - and he's one of the least quirky summer signings.)

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Re: Flashbacks to 'Nam... Chelt'nam (A) Tue 15 Dec 7.45pm

Post by nicholaldo » Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:34 pm

Greenidge might prove to be an inspired choice, but to me it looks like we have a formation which relies on the wing-backs to provide the width and a starting eleven without any wing-backs.

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