Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

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DJBlu
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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by DJBlu » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:24 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:16 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:11 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:02 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:56 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:52 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:44 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:40 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:33 pm
What on earth have we brought Brockbank on for? Jones was getting joy down there so bring a centre back on to do the job?
Harry won't give the ball away as much.
As he aimlessly lumps it at the centre half for the third time...

Jones was infinitely better. A far better player than Brockbank will ever be.

And if we are taking players who give it away the get the LB off.
I'll get the stats after the game.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/14870 ... Cheltenham

Sort by rating and fill your boots.
Not convinced that pass accuracy is the most relevant stat for an overlapping full back but those stats add to my bafflement as to why Jones came off. He was one of our better players today and we looked a worse side without his overlapping runs.

And our left back gave the ball away more than anyone else. And cost us a goal. Can only assume Gethin was injured.
Course you're not as the evidence doesn't support your argument.

I hate to break it to you but he wasn't one of the best players and nor did I say the new lad was either, far from it. He might have got into decent areas but what's the point if he's going to give it away?

If he were to take off the LB for a right-footed player then you would have rinsed him for it.

But that's how you like it. Rock and hard place arguing.
Hate to break it to you but we spent a first half with everything going through Jones and Isgrove down our right hand side, both putting some decent balls into the box.
And got what? Nothing. 6 crosses that came to nothing.

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by nicholaldo » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:26 pm

We do need to improve our crosses. Too often they fail to beat the first defender, and on the rare occassions they don't they're either overhit or floated unthreateningly.

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:26 pm

DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:24 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:16 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:11 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:02 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:56 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:52 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:44 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:40 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:33 pm
What on earth have we brought Brockbank on for? Jones was getting joy down there so bring a centre back on to do the job?
Harry won't give the ball away as much.
As he aimlessly lumps it at the centre half for the third time...

Jones was infinitely better. A far better player than Brockbank will ever be.

And if we are taking players who give it away the get the LB off.
I'll get the stats after the game.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/14870 ... Cheltenham

Sort by rating and fill your boots.
Not convinced that pass accuracy is the most relevant stat for an overlapping full back but those stats add to my bafflement as to why Jones came off. He was one of our better players today and we looked a worse side without his overlapping runs.

And our left back gave the ball away more than anyone else. And cost us a goal. Can only assume Gethin was injured.
Course you're not as the evidence doesn't support your argument.

I hate to break it to you but he wasn't one of the best players and nor did I say the new lad was either, far from it. He might have got into decent areas but what's the point if he's going to give it away?

If he were to take off the LB for a right-footed player then you would have rinsed him for it.

But that's how you like it. Rock and hard place arguing.
Hate to break it to you but we spent a first half with everything going through Jones and Isgrove down our right hand side, both putting some decent balls into the box.
And got what? Nothing. 6 crosses that came to nothing.
That’s not their fault though...one off the line, couple of decent saves...better than not getting your full back forward and not getting crosses in.

Stop twisting yourself in knots to try and argue an impossible position. Today was miles better. Easily the best we’ve played for a while....

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by The_Gun » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:27 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:54 pm
The_Gun wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:51 pm
I like Brockbank, but he’s a centre back.
I like Brockbank, but he's too short* to be a centre-back in a back four (you can get away with a shorter one with two big lads alongside him). He's a doughty defensive full-back. And not many people need those any more.

*And not good enough in other areas to compensate, before anybody says "Cannavaro" :D
I disagree. At League 2 level he’s good enough to be an undersized ball playing centre back, especially if played alongside someone the size of Santos.

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by DJBlu » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:27 pm

And fair play to Delaney for redeeming himself for the corner for the goal. Great ball up to Arthur for the goal. :wink:

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by DJBlu » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:33 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:26 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:24 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:16 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:11 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:02 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:56 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:52 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:44 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:40 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:33 pm
What on earth have we brought Brockbank on for? Jones was getting joy down there so bring a centre back on to do the job?
Harry won't give the ball away as much.
As he aimlessly lumps it at the centre half for the third time...

Jones was infinitely better. A far better player than Brockbank will ever be.

And if we are taking players who give it away the get the LB off.
I'll get the stats after the game.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/14870 ... Cheltenham

Sort by rating and fill your boots.
Not convinced that pass accuracy is the most relevant stat for an overlapping full back but those stats add to my bafflement as to why Jones came off. He was one of our better players today and we looked a worse side without his overlapping runs.

And our left back gave the ball away more than anyone else. And cost us a goal. Can only assume Gethin was injured.
Course you're not as the evidence doesn't support your argument.

I hate to break it to you but he wasn't one of the best players and nor did I say the new lad was either, far from it. He might have got into decent areas but what's the point if he's going to give it away?

If he were to take off the LB for a right-footed player then you would have rinsed him for it.

But that's how you like it. Rock and hard place arguing.
Hate to break it to you but we spent a first half with everything going through Jones and Isgrove down our right hand side, both putting some decent balls into the box.
And got what? Nothing. 6 crosses that came to nothing.
That’s not their fault though...one off the line, couple of decent saves...better than not getting your full back forward and not getting crosses in.

Stop twisting yourself in knots to try and argue an impossible position. Today was miles better. Easily the best we’ve played for a while....
Where have I said we didn't? You're deflecting from the fact Gethin Jones was not one of the better players on the pitch. You're off down all these new avenues when I counter your argument.

You're arguing he was better going forward but he contributed the same as the guy who came on for him albeit with a worse pass %.

You've also slated the lad on the other side for doing the same. If you're saying his crosses might eventually lead to a goal, maybe him losing possession might do too?

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by Bertie Wooster » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:38 pm

Very poor 2nd half for me - yet again we can't play for 90 mins or even 60 mins, Santos or Isgrove MOM for me & Sarce did well. Why on earth Arthur doesn't start is behond me - he has more passion, drive, spirit than half the team combined.

I really am losing faith in Evatt & I'm now having serious doubts whether he is capable of getting us up next season. His judgement of players is worrying as is his need to bring in the 2 players today on loan when we have players as good already at the club. Arthur has more drive, spirit & passion than the rest of the squad put together, we need more like him - but obviously Evatt doesn't see this, he would rather help other clubs by giving their players games ahead of our own.

Our tempo & intensity is really poor, we spend half the game going backwards & sideways - we need a proper big striker up front. I don't like saying this but Thomason is very limited and plays like he has a very heavy rucksack on his back, he will never play at a higher level than League 2, same with Brockbank there are better Sunday League players than him.

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:42 pm

I think Arthur doesn’t start because he’s pretty inconsistent and his end products a bit hit and miss. He’s been injured as well to be fair - Tuesday was the first time he was fit enough for the bench I think. Having said that he would be in my team for the next game. This formation suits him a lot better.

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:45 pm

DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:33 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:26 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:24 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:16 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:11 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:02 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:56 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:52 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:44 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:40 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:33 pm
What on earth have we brought Brockbank on for? Jones was getting joy down there so bring a centre back on to do the job?
Harry won't give the ball away as much.
As he aimlessly lumps it at the centre half for the third time...

Jones was infinitely better. A far better player than Brockbank will ever be.

And if we are taking players who give it away the get the LB off.
I'll get the stats after the game.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/14870 ... Cheltenham

Sort by rating and fill your boots.
Not convinced that pass accuracy is the most relevant stat for an overlapping full back but those stats add to my bafflement as to why Jones came off. He was one of our better players today and we looked a worse side without his overlapping runs.

And our left back gave the ball away more than anyone else. And cost us a goal. Can only assume Gethin was injured.
Course you're not as the evidence doesn't support your argument.

I hate to break it to you but he wasn't one of the best players and nor did I say the new lad was either, far from it. He might have got into decent areas but what's the point if he's going to give it away?

If he were to take off the LB for a right-footed player then you would have rinsed him for it.

But that's how you like it. Rock and hard place arguing.
Hate to break it to you but we spent a first half with everything going through Jones and Isgrove down our right hand side, both putting some decent balls into the box.
And got what? Nothing. 6 crosses that came to nothing.
That’s not their fault though...one off the line, couple of decent saves...better than not getting your full back forward and not getting crosses in.

Stop twisting yourself in knots to try and argue an impossible position. Today was miles better. Easily the best we’ve played for a while....
Where have I said we didn't? You're deflecting from the fact Gethin Jones was not one of the better players on the pitch. You're off down all these new avenues when I counter your argument.

You're arguing he was better going forward but he contributed the same as the guy who came on for him albeit with a worse pass %.

You've also slated the lad on the other side for doing the same. If you're saying his crosses might eventually lead to a goal, maybe him losing possession might do too?
It’s about the shape. Jones is a full back. He gets forwards. He overlaps. He worked really well with Isgrove. He, Sarcevic and Isgrove were the supply chain. We didn’t score but that’s not their fault and the shape of the team was miles better with Jones in.

You have to be blind not to see that. Jones is a positive full back who drives forward. Brockbank might marginally give it away less but it’s because he turns round all the time and goes back and sideways when he does get forward or tries to get the ball forwards he loses it more often than not. He’s a centre back or more defensive right back option. We all know that. It was just an odd change.

The right hand side was the area of our team that worked well. I can only assume it was an injury.

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by The_Gun » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:05 pm

officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:42 pm
I think Arthur doesn’t start because he’s pretty inconsistent and his end products a bit hit and miss. He’s been injured as well to be fair - Tuesday was the first time he was fit enough for the bench I think. Having said that he would be in my team for the next game. This formation suits him a lot better.
For me, next Saturday I’d play the same team we started with today, but put in Arthur for the lad from Lincoln, and ideally John in at LB. Wouldn’t mind Fonz on the left of the front three, but Arthur probably deserves a start based on his last two performances.

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by Worthy4England » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:12 pm

The_Gun wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:05 pm
officer_dibble wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:42 pm
I think Arthur doesn’t start because he’s pretty inconsistent and his end products a bit hit and miss. He’s been injured as well to be fair - Tuesday was the first time he was fit enough for the bench I think. Having said that he would be in my team for the next game. This formation suits him a lot better.
For me, next Saturday I’d play the same team we started with today, but put in Arthur for the lad from Lincoln, and ideally John in at LB. Wouldn’t mind Fonz on the left of the front three, but Arthur probably deserves a start based on his last two performances.
Not sure John will be back for next week, listening to Evatts pre match, he was still talking one or two weeks. I know that's in range for next week, but sounded like a little longer.

I think Arthur has earned a start too and I'm not convinced by the LB yet, either...

Of course if John was fit, as a LWB, Evatt might try to jury rig a back three...

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by officer_dibble » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:14 pm

Agreed Gun. There’s a niggle at the back of my mind that Arthur’s not up to it but Delfs been proper gash recently so he’s due a chance. The Lincoln fans rate this lad we’ve signed so he might well be the answer, and Isgroves hardly me consistency as well. It’s good to have options.

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by nicholaldo » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:30 pm

Evatt described Gnahoua as an "impact" player in his post-match interview, saying that he wants to get some structure and pitch intelligence in him.

It sound like he's going to have a wait on his hands.

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by DJBlu » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:46 pm

The only mention of an injury from Evatt is Lee who has a groin strain but says it was precautionary sub rather than an injury.

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by nicholaldo » Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:56 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:30 pm
Evatt described Gnahoua as an "impact" player in his post-match interview, saying that he wants to get some structure and pitch intelligence in him.

It sound like he's going to have a wait on his hands.

To clarify, I mean Arthur not Evatt.

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by LeverEnd » Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:01 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 6:30 pm
Evatt described Gnahoua as an "impact" player in his post-match interview, saying that he wants to get some structure and pitch intelligence in him.

It sound like he's going to have a wait on his hands.
Today was the obvious time to start him after Tuesday, with Elbouzedi on the bench. He was poor, bit of an insult to Arthur really. He's got almost no league experience.
...

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by nicholaldo » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:26 pm

According to Iles, we made 576 passes today. 101 of them came from Jackson.

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by DJBlu » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:06 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:26 pm
According to Iles, we made 576 passes today. 101 of them came from Jackson.
But.....

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by DJBlu » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:12 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:45 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:33 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:26 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:24 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:16 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:11 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 5:02 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:56 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:52 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:44 pm
DJBlu wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:40 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:33 pm
What on earth have we brought Brockbank on for? Jones was getting joy down there so bring a centre back on to do the job?
Harry won't give the ball away as much.
As he aimlessly lumps it at the centre half for the third time...

Jones was infinitely better. A far better player than Brockbank will ever be.

And if we are taking players who give it away the get the LB off.
I'll get the stats after the game.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/14870 ... Cheltenham

Sort by rating and fill your boots.
Not convinced that pass accuracy is the most relevant stat for an overlapping full back but those stats add to my bafflement as to why Jones came off. He was one of our better players today and we looked a worse side without his overlapping runs.

And our left back gave the ball away more than anyone else. And cost us a goal. Can only assume Gethin was injured.
Course you're not as the evidence doesn't support your argument.

I hate to break it to you but he wasn't one of the best players and nor did I say the new lad was either, far from it. He might have got into decent areas but what's the point if he's going to give it away?

If he were to take off the LB for a right-footed player then you would have rinsed him for it.

But that's how you like it. Rock and hard place arguing.
Hate to break it to you but we spent a first half with everything going through Jones and Isgrove down our right hand side, both putting some decent balls into the box.
And got what? Nothing. 6 crosses that came to nothing.
That’s not their fault though...one off the line, couple of decent saves...better than not getting your full back forward and not getting crosses in.

Stop twisting yourself in knots to try and argue an impossible position. Today was miles better. Easily the best we’ve played for a while....
Where have I said we didn't? You're deflecting from the fact Gethin Jones was not one of the better players on the pitch. You're off down all these new avenues when I counter your argument.

You're arguing he was better going forward but he contributed the same as the guy who came on for him albeit with a worse pass %.

You've also slated the lad on the other side for doing the same. If you're saying his crosses might eventually lead to a goal, maybe him losing possession might do too?
It’s about the shape. Jones is a full back. He gets forwards. He overlaps. He worked really well with Isgrove. He, Sarcevic and Isgrove were the supply chain. We didn’t score but that’s not their fault and the shape of the team was miles better with Jones in.

You have to be blind not to see that. Jones is a positive full back who drives forward. Brockbank might marginally give it away less but it’s because he turns round all the time and goes back and sideways when he does get forward or tries to get the ball forwards he loses it more often than not. He’s a centre back or more defensive right back option. We all know that. It was just an odd change.

The right hand side was the area of our team that worked well. I can only assume it was an injury.
According to Evatt he's not injured.

You can't go saying defenders are to blame for conceding on one hand and saying the attack isn't responsible for not scoring. Some would say that's hypocritical.

He went off, we didn't concede and scored so by your logic we were better without surely?

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Re: Will we be at the races? Cheltenham (h) Saturday 16 Jan 15:00 KO (GMT)

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:41 pm

^No. We were the better team first half and could arguably should have been comfortably in front. We had enough chances created in the main down our right hand side.

Taking off Jones for Brockbank didn’t improve us, especially going forwards in fact it made us worse. Which is why it was an odd change at 1-0. Especially when our other full back was not having a very good game by comparison so if you were to change a full back it was an odd one.

To me it’s quite clear the future is a team built around Sarcevic, Doyle, Lee, Tutte, Jones and Santos. All of these players are more than good enough for this level. Not perfect but more than good enough for league two. So keep that core fit and build onto it. You probably could throw Delaney in there if he could concentrate better.

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