Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:54 pm

To be perfectly frank I don't give a tin shit what people think of the type of football I prefer – you're all entitled to be as wrong as you like. :mrgreen: Loving the ball, passing it about, dominating the game – that's the style of football I love, the style of football I loved under Rioch and then Todd. Once it becomes merely about results it's not entertainment. Once it becomes about results then I might as well just support Bayern Munich or something.

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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by knobpolisher » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:31 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:54 pm
. Once it becomes about results then I might as well just support Bayern Munich or something.
sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Bayern got knocked out of the champion league this week . I thought its best you know.
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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:34 pm

knobpolisher wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:31 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:54 pm
Once it becomes about results then I might as well just support Bayern Munich or something.
sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Bayern got knocked out of the champion league this week . I thought its best you know.
So I heard, KP - as it happens last night I looked at non-D4 results for the first midweek this year, if not this season. My heart goes out to the Bavarians. Guess it just proves that looking purely for results rather than, y'know, *enjoyment* might be a fool's errand. :D

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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:29 pm

I'd be gutted if we scored 8 at the Camp Nou, too. It would hardly register up there with the 1-0 defeat to Newport where we played some decent football.

If it wasn't about results, I wouldn't be watching. Sorta the point of any sport is to try and win.

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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:58 pm

If it’s not about results why not just pick whichever side has the best players and plays the most entertaining football at any single time and follow them? Why would you follow your home town club if you only care about how football is played?

The best entertainment I’ve had as a Bolton fan was establishing ourselves in the premiership under Big Sam. I won’t see better than that now. It was brilliant and I spent every day living and breathing the exploits of that side and watching it grow.

A close second would be the 90’s Ricoh revival but its second because we just didn’t take it as far.

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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by knobpolisher » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:14 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:58 pm
If it’s not about results why not just pick whichever side has the best players and plays the most entertaining football at any single time and follow them? Why would you follow your home town club if you only care about how football is played?

The best entertainment I’ve had as a Bolton fan was establishing ourselves in the premiership under Big Sam. I won’t see better than that now. It was brilliant and I spent every day living and breathing the exploits of that side and watching it grow.

A close second would be the 90’s Ricoh revival but its second because we just didn’t take it as far.
Its funny looking back. I can distinctly remember reading the "Buff" when we were relegated in 64. I was not quite 8 at the time so for me the Rioch days were magical, the team didn't have big names but they had big hearts , the big Sam days when the team had big names was magnificent. Back then the sun shone constantly every summer or so it seemed so maybe its about perspective.
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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:32 pm

Who’s Morecambe’s Okocha?

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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by Prufrock » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:45 pm

There's a pretty big difference between "it's not about results" and "it's not merely about results" which is what DSB was saying.

And they're inextricably linked. Trying to play out from the back isn't entertaining if you give it away every time and get beat 5-0 every week. They aren't diametric opposites in constant tension.

I thought we were far better to watch under Allardyce until right at the end then the media stereotypes would have you believe. Youri Djorkaeff wasn't treated as a Pulis-esque spare player. Parky was a little different, it was pretty turgid a lot of the time but the emotion and occasion of the game can make up for that, as long as you win. Port Vale away is still in my top 5 away days. And I'd kill to have been at the Forest game. But when the wheels fall off, wow.

But Cambridge at home was the most I've enjoyed the *football* itself in a very long time. Dominance, creativity, control, it was absolutely top stuff. And I'm for it.
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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:51 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:45 pm
There's a pretty big difference between "it's not about results" and "it's not merely about results" which is what DSB was saying.

And they're inextricably linked. Trying to play out from the back isn't entertaining if you give it away every time and get beat 5-0 every week. They aren't diametric opposites in constant tension.

I thought we were far better to watch under Allardyce until right at the end then the media stereotypes would have you believe. Youri Djorkaeff wasn't treated as a Pulis-esque spare player. Parky was a little different, it was pretty turgid a lot of the time but the emotion and occasion of the game can make up for that, as long as you win. Port Vale away is still in my top 5 away days. And I'd kill to have been at the Forest game. But when the wheels fall off, wow.

But Cambridge at home was the most I've enjoyed the *football* itself in a very long time. Dominance, creativity, control, it was absolutely top stuff. And I'm for it.
I mean if we can achieve results playing an ‘attractive brand’ of football then I’m all for it. What people see as attractive is different though. I probably rank the Bayern Munich side with Robben et al (Pre Guardiola) as one of the most attractive I’ve watched. Full of pace, direct and went for the jugular. Perhaps not for too long but for a season they were absolutely brilliant to watch.

But I’d prioritise winning over how we play because winning and progressing allows you to slowly evolve your style as Allardyce did.

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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by Dave Sutton's barnet » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:00 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:29 pm
I'd be gutted if we scored 8 at the Camp Nou, too. It would hardly register up there with the 1-0 defeat to Newport where we played some decent football.

If it wasn't about results, I wouldn't be watching. Sorta the point of any sport is to try and win.
by that rationale, mate, some on here would say you’ve wasted a decade. Unless life isn’t that simple and there’s other reasons we remain? :D

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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:08 pm

knobpolisher wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:14 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:58 pm
If it’s not about results why not just pick whichever side has the best players and plays the most entertaining football at any single time and follow them? Why would you follow your home town club if you only care about how football is played?

The best entertainment I’ve had as a Bolton fan was establishing ourselves in the premiership under Big Sam. I won’t see better than that now. It was brilliant and I spent every day living and breathing the exploits of that side and watching it grow.

A close second would be the 90’s Ricoh revival but its second because we just didn’t take it as far.
Its funny looking back. I can distinctly remember reading the "Buff" when we were relegated in 64. I was not quite 8 at the time so for me the Rioch days were magical, the team didn't have big names but they had big hearts , the big Sam days when the team had big names was magnificent. Back then the sun shone constantly every summer or so it seemed so maybe its about perspective.
I think there needs to be a few things in tandem to get that more positive vibe, in fairness, than "just winning" although winning is probably the most significant factor.

The Club to me feels in a better position now, in the 4th Division, than it did when Parky got us out of the 3rd. I'm enjoying this season more than that season, because our future feels a bit more solid.

Given what Evatt said about January signings - along the lines of if we're in with a shout he'd get backing, if were not he wouldn't - it looks to me like they backed him significantly despite us being 19th or whatever we were...I thought that was really positive and it's paid dividends.

It has been easier this season to shell out £460 on ifollow than if ever felt handing over a few quid for a pie under Anderson.

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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:14 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:00 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:29 pm
I'd be gutted if we scored 8 at the Camp Nou, too. It would hardly register up there with the 1-0 defeat to Newport where we played some decent football.

If it wasn't about results, I wouldn't be watching. Sorta the point of any sport is to try and win.
by that rationale, mate, some on here would say you’ve wasted a decade. Unless life isn’t that simple and there’s other reasons we remain? :D
I didn't say it's about winning all the time. :-) Couple of great escapes in our early Allardyce Prem days, to stay up, were exciting seasons maybe because we expected a struggle and so it proved. I used to set the bar at "stay up" that progressed to "safe by Easter" so all progress.

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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:58 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:14 pm
Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:00 pm
Worthy4England wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:29 pm
I'd be gutted if we scored 8 at the Camp Nou, too. It would hardly register up there with the 1-0 defeat to Newport where we played some decent football.

If it wasn't about results, I wouldn't be watching. Sorta the point of any sport is to try and win.
by that rationale, mate, some on here would say you’ve wasted a decade. Unless life isn’t that simple and there’s other reasons we remain? :D
I didn't say it's about winning all the time. :-) Couple of great escapes in our early Allardyce Prem days, to stay up, were exciting seasons maybe because we expected a struggle and so it proved. I used to set the bar at "stay up" that progressed to "safe by Easter" so all progress.
Winning and results need context as you outline here. Staying in the premiership was absolutely ‘winning’ given the context that we’d never as a club managed that before and we did so on the most meagre resources we’d enjoyed in the top flight. As a Bolton fan I’d say staying in the premiership is more or less our peak. Yes we went better for some seasons but if you say champions league qualification is the peak for many premiership teams then survival in the top flight is probably our equivalent. People baulk at it and say they’d rather watch us lower down the tiers playing good football and winning games but for me the ambition of getting better is the driver. If you take that away I would likely lose interest.

I agree that there are lots of factors around enjoyment. I enjoyed Parkys time here because inspite of the ownership we managed to achieve things for the first time in nearly a decade. It was the first time we managed to improve our league position year on year in a decade I think. It was a brief respite from our relentless slide. Parky was also an incredibly decent human being who behind the scenes did more for the club than anyone will ever know. But it wasn’t close to the Allardyce or Rioch years. It was just a minor respite. For a couple of seasons. Even though the clouds were clearly looming.

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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:21 pm

the founder of the Olympics, Baron Pierre de Coubertin, said

"The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not winning but taking part; the essential thing in life is not conquering but fighting well. If you should be playing football against Grimsby, this does not apply. You must seek to win at all costs!"

He didn't really add the last bit....Come on you Whites... :mrgreen:
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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:00 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:32 pm
Who’s Morecambe’s Okocha?
For the long throws?
...

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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by LeverEnd » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:11 pm

Sue we'll be looking to win and the beauty of it is both Cheltenham and Cambridge have tough aways at Crawley and Newport respectively.

we could actually be top by 5pm Saturday :shock:
...

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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by TANGODANCER » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:15 pm

LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:11 pm
Sue we'll be looking to win and the beauty of it is both Cheltenham and Cambridge have tough aways at Crawley and Newport respectively.

we could actually be top by 5pm Saturday :shock:
Don't forget the mid-day kick offs Saturday , L.E.!
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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by Worthy4England » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:33 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:21 pm
the founder of the Olympics, Baron Pierre de Coubertin, said

"The most important thing in the Olympic Games is not winning but taking part; the essential thing in life is not conquering but fighting well. If you should be playing football against Grimsby, this does not apply. You must seek to win at all costs!"

He didn't really add the last bit....Come on you Whites... :mrgreen:
I'm ok with that in the Olympic Games. As we don't play in them, he can fook right off! :-)

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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by brommers95 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:19 pm

Dave Sutton's barnet wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 4:32 pm
Who’s Morecambe’s Okocha?
Carlos Mendes Gomes. Atletico Madrid to Morecambe has a similar vibe to PSG to Bolton

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Re: Time to batter the fish wives? Grimsby (A) - Sat 17th Apr 12:30 KO

Post by TonyDomingos » Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:36 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:15 pm
LeverEnd wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:11 pm
Sue we'll be looking to win and the beauty of it is both Cheltenham and Cambridge have tough aways at Crawley and Newport respectively.

we could actually be top by 5pm Saturday :shock:
Don't forget the mid-day kick offs Saturday , L.E.!

And Crawley v Cheltenham is 6.30pm tomorrow (Friday) night.
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