Will Burton suit us? Bolton v Brewers, Tues 25-10-22. 7.45.

[Harry Genshaw]

Dramatic finish, limbs in the home end at 98 mins apart from those saps who left early!

Papering over the cracks though. Poor individual performances all over the park and poor decision making. Chucking players forward and finally one or two going forwards, or even God forbid, having a shot, got us out of jail. Evatt needs to earn his corn now.

[KeyserSoze]

Drink it in people.

Was the phone notifying you about bod's goal?

[Mar]

I genuinely don't know (yet!) what XI I'd pick on Saturday, and that's not all good. Some of it is players showing promise, but some is players off the boil. I don't know about formations, either. There's more questions than answers. We seemed to switch to a back four early in the second half but we remained ineffective and only really came into it when Burton sat back on their lead and abandoned any pretence of intent. And some of the Hail Mary changes we've made ask questions about the personnel who were on when it all went wrong. We were losing 1-0 when Dapo went off; at Accy, we were losing 2-0 when Bod had gone off. MJ didn't play a part in either comeback - is he now cast aside? Kacha was part of the comeback at Accy but sacrificed here - where does that leave him? And who exactly plays in the back four anyway?

I suspect your questions are probably best answered by how do we get that high level of tempo without conceding. We're great when we're really at it but that's not materialising until we've got backs up against it at the moment, almost as if we're happy to walk through the match and then go for the jugular at the end.

I'd much prefer our stall to be, go out to win and then solidify when at 2 goals ahead.

[Worthy4England]

I'm happy with three points. But we were poor for a lot of that game. Not in the sense that we didn't tackle, win the ball back, played some ok passes until the final one, but lacking direction, energy, tempo and purpose. It was poor fare. Obvs, the last ten to fifteen minutes, we went at it with all the things that weren't there for most of it and had the players to turn a loss into a win.

At that point we'd sort of lost a sense of "system" but gained a sense of "win the game." I don't think it was down to one sub, but more attitude. In retrospect, it left me quite annoyed, because the first 80-85 minutes were pretty awful.

[officer_dibble]

Haven’t a fecking clue what to make of it. As said it’s poor up until the point we go behind a chuck a load of subs at it - so there is character there which is great. But we should be going out to boss these teams and smash them from the off. We nearly lost! I know football is a game of 11 v 11 but we’ve clearly got the squad and the ability to beat teams in the lower half.

Formation/team, for me if we’re playing wing backs and it isn’t Dec John on the left (or beck if he’s any good) then it’s not right. And we need our best/form players out there. So Dapo starts. Has to be a back four or Dapo out of position then? I also think Sadlier should be starting - again a front 3 suits him, so I would have those two either side of JDB who is scoring. Charles is out of sorts, on the bench. Sheehan has probably earned a go, I think MJ should start and the other one to play is between Dempsey and Lee. Back four is Iredale/Johnston/Santos/Jones (or Bradley). But then for other games a 3421 works!

[BWFC_Insane]

For me the problems are tempo related. And I think the system plays a part in that or more accurately the roles of players in it. We play on the whole far too slowly. In the 352 we played for an hour last night our only move is between the midfield player, wide centre back and wing back triangle. That’s our only pattern of incisive play. And because we do things slowly mostly it becomes predictable. The slowness for me is a combination of the system and players but also placing too much importance on possession. I think possession isn’t helping us. When we go sideways and backwards against a team setup to absorb we look poor. We look very poor.

The goals and chances we created yesterday at the death all came from us playing quicker. The equaliser a big boot from the keeper straight to Baka who scored. It wasn’t Trafford slowing the game down or santos sideways passing it. One big boot. Missed header. Goal.

Lee’s chance came from an early ball and a first time shot from Sadlier, the post was hit from a move where we moved it first or second touch.

I’m not advocating we start lumping it, but we do need to mix our game up much more. Much earlier. Ideally at the start of games. Go long sometimes and early. Cross earlier sometimes. Lift the ball into the box don’t just hit it low.

The strikers are also problematic. Kachunga and Charles simply aren’t very good at the game we are trying to play. Both are bang average on the ball. And Kachunga slows the game down too much when we need a player who injects tempo. Charles is ok if you want a harrier off the shoulder. We though are looking for a striker who can actually link the play. He can’t. He’s rubbish at anything other than running or chasing. Rubbish. So unless we change how we play he isn’t suiting it.

Sheehan showed progressive passes but I think we’d need to judge whether he’s a real tempo setter and lifter or just someone skilled to go along with the ride. Lee helped and frankly Dempsey has been hugely underwhelming and I’ve no idea what he really brings.

I don’t think the system works especially not with Dapo at wing back and frankly we don’t have wing backs. Bradley going forward is very very very average as a full back though he’d be very good I think. Same with Jack. Without the cut and thrust of Fossey the system looks flat.

I’d like to see a 433 and us play a bit more directly at times. And up the tempo as much as we can. Stop settling for a side sitting in against us. Play quicker and when we lose it have the hunger to win it back and then go on the transition.

I don’t think we have won many games once we end up stroking it backwards and sideways at 0-0. Not after about twenty minutes. So stop doing that.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Dino Maamria on our celebrations: "Since you've mentioned that - when they come to our place, we'll give them a good game."

p01grs80.jpg (128.42 KiB) Viewed 538 times

[BorsdaneWhite]

For me the problems are tempo related. And I think the system plays a part in that or more accurately the roles of players in it. We play on the whole far too slowly. In the 352 we played for an hour last night our only move is between the midfield player, wide centre back and wing back triangle. That’s our only pattern of incisive play. And because we do things slowly mostly it becomes predictable. The slowness for me is a combination of the system and players but also placing too much importance on possession. I think possession isn’t helping us. When we go sideways and backwards against a team setup to absorb we look poor. We look very poor.

The goals and chances we created yesterday at the death all came from us playing quicker. The equaliser a big boot from the keeper straight to Baka who scored. It wasn’t Trafford slowing the game down or santos sideways passing it. One big boot. Missed header. Goal.

Lee’s chance came from an early ball and a first time shot from Sadlier, the post was hit from a move where we moved it first or second touch.

I’m not advocating we start lumping it, but we do need to mix our game up much more. Much earlier. Ideally at the start of games. Go long sometimes and early. Cross earlier sometimes. Lift the ball into the box don’t just hit it low.

The strikers are also problematic. Kachunga and Charles simply aren’t very good at the game we are trying to play. Both are bang average on the ball. And Kachunga slows the game down too much when we need a player who injects tempo. Charles is ok if you want a harrier off the shoulder. We though are looking for a striker who can actually link the play. He can’t. He’s rubbish at anything other than running or chasing. Rubbish. So unless we change how we play he isn’t suiting it.

Sheehan showed progressive passes but I think we’d need to judge whether he’s a real tempo setter and lifter or just someone skilled to go along with the ride. Lee helped and frankly Dempsey has been hugely underwhelming and I’ve no idea what he really brings.

I don’t think the system works especially not with Dapo at wing back and frankly we don’t have wing backs. Bradley going forward is very very very average as a full back though he’d be very good I think. Same with Jack. Without the cut and thrust of Fossey the system looks flat.

I’d like to see a 433 and us play a bit more directly at times. And up the tempo as much as we can. Stop settling for a side sitting in against us. Play quicker and when we lose it have the hunger to win it back and then go on the transition.

I don’t think we have won many games once we end up stroking it backwards and sideways at 0-0. Not after about twenty minutes. So stop doing that.

That’s a great assessment. Bradley’s end product has largely disappeared. Charles clumsy, but isn’t getting anything over the top or through to chase. Left side isn’t working with John out of favour.

Perhaps Bod with Sads and Dapo either side, with Williams and any of the other two CMs behind would provide the balance/incision we’d need. That said: the 433 didn’t seem to improve much yesterday and Evatt swiftly reverted back to 352 to accommodate the big lads up top.

Anyhow: still aglow from yesterday. Wonderful feeling to regain that bizarre, but brutal phenomenon of scoring late (and very late) which propped up the second half of last season. And an aggrieved opposing manager to boot!

[TANGODANCER]

Anyhow: still aglow from yesterday. Wonderful feeling to regain that bizarre, but brutal phenomenon of scoring late (and very late) which propped up the second half of last season. And an aggrieved opposing manager to boot!

^^
This. I'd actually stood up to make a brew celebrating our first goal and could hardly believe we'd scored a winner. In fairness, Burton's manager's comment might seem quite mild to that if the position had been reversed, but the cookie crumbled for us for a change. Long may it last.

[Worthy4England]

Aye, a good summary. The problem without Bod or Baka, is that really the option to go more direct and mix it up is much more limited to the extent it's barely realistic. In turn, that makes it easy to read, as Burton did for most of the 90 minutes. It wasn't threatening, generally didn't have their defence moved off their plan and for the majority of the game didn't result in a shot on target.

Every one who came on in the headless 10 minutes, played their part. Like Insano, I was impressed with Sheehan's play in the school yard but I'd like to see it when we're not in that scenario which is most of the time.

Evatt talked about "playing angry" in his post match, I question whether the starting XI missed the e-mail...

[TANGODANCER]

Dino Maamria on our celebrations: "Since you've mentioned that - when they come to our place, we'll give them a good game."

p01grs80.jpg

Gave me a good laugh.

[Prufrock]

Also, f*ck me man, put a keeper on the bench! Twice now Traf has nearly given me a heart attack going down. I assume we're not yet at the point where we genuinely think an outfielder is better than Dixon.

[DJBlu]

Also, f*ck me man, put a keeper on the bench! Twice now Traf has nearly given me a heart attack going down. I assume we're not yet at the point where we genuinely think an outfielder is better than Dixon.

I thought, at least we have Bod on the bench and not Dixon when Traff went down holding his knee. Bit harsh as he wasn't too bad vs Leeds U21s.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think I’d also argue that Evatt doesn’t fully get what certain players offer and what certain positions require. Dapo is less of a wing back than Santos would be. Wing back is about relentless pace up and down the line and committing on the outside. Dapo does and offers none of that. His skills are wasted there.

Bradley is being asked to do too much.

And he’s overrating what Charles and Kachunga bring to the table.

And underrating for me how critical Lee is to making us tick.

[Harry Genshaw]

A lot to agree with upthread Insane but you're very much feast or famine with a player aren't you?

IMO, Charles is not rubbish at anything other than running or chasing. Likewise Bradley is not very (×3!) average going forward. I do think we'll get the best out of them if we tap into the other points you raise. Up the tempo and don't over egg the possession pudding!

Interesting to note that they had a throw in and a corner straight after Traf going down injured. Predictably, it was a long throw right under the keeper and then a corner right to the back stick that they scored from. A common sense approach to put the keeper under pressure while he's still groggy. If the situation was reversed, we'd have thrown it back down the line before it ended up back with our keeper!

[officer_dibble]

Dino Maamria on our celebrations: "Since you've mentioned that - when they come to our place, we'll give them a good game."

p01grs80.jpg

That fecking no mark wont be anywhere near league football come april. Or shouldn’t be anyway. Said it last season about this shower - if you are happy with that as the limit of your ambitions (time wasting, picking a person to play based on their ability to throw a ball, preparing a pitch incapable of football) then there is no hope for you.

[TANGODANCER]

Dino Maamria on our celebrations: "Since you've mentioned that - when they come to our place, we'll give them a good game."

p01grs80.jpg

That fecking no mark wont be anywhere near league football come april. Or shouldn’t be anyway. Said it last season about this shower - if you are happy with that as the limit of your ambitions (time wasting, picking a person to play based on their ability to throw a ball, preparing a pitch incapable of football) then there is no hope for you.

Really good of him to disclose his intentions to us. That's really intelligent. Somebody also ought to remind him that referees aren't so dim they can't see when a team is deliberately timewasting and add a bit of time on to compensate it. He's his own worst enemy that man. His team's (and his) actions probably cost them a point.

[BWFC_Insane]

A lot to agree with upthread Insane but you're very much feast or famine with a player aren't you?

IMO, Charles is not rubbish at anything other than running or chasing. Likewise Bradley is not very (×3!) average going forward. I do think we'll get the best out of them if we tap into the other points you raise. Up the tempo and don't over egg the possession pudding!

Interesting to note that they had a throw in and a corner straight after Traf going down injured. Predictably, it was a long throw right under the keeper and then a corner right to the back stick that they scored from. A common sense approach to put the keeper under pressure while he's still groggy. If the situation was reversed, we'd have thrown it back down the line before it ended up back with our keeper!

Charles is a certain type. When he’s involved in the build up it just almost always breaks down. I don’t think he’s capable of playing in that sort of a system against a ‘low block’ or a team of shithouses like Burton. He’s very effective at higher tempo and when there is space in behind. He’s just not good at all at link up play.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Dino Maamria on our celebrations: "Since you've mentioned that - when they come to our place, we'll give them a good game."

Evatt’s reaction: “We both shouldn’t surmise that we will still be in charge because we know football is a funny game and April is a long, long time away.”

[TANGODANCER]

A lot to agree with upthread Insane but you're very much feast or famine with a player aren't you?

Football, cricket or politics? Our Insane friend is a firm believer in the pen being mightier than the sword. Good job we're allowed to disagree.