Tykes on bikes. V Barnsley at home. Sat 5th Nov.22 . 2 0'clock.

[TANGODANCER]

Funny how those actually watching the games including Iles all saying the same thing.

Right, suitably chastised...

[Worthy4England]

I don't think there's much doubt from any quarter, that we've not acquitted ourselves particularly well in October. The manager has been saying the same thing for the most part, in his post match comments..

I'm with Insano, that if we're playing three up front, it feels like Bod offers more possibilities than Dion. He can hold the ball better, play with his back to goal better and looks more likely to win a header, Baka probably to a lesser extent...

[officer_dibble]

I think most people would start Bod as the one central striker in a 433. Same as most probably wouldn’t start Jones at Centre half in a two. Some odd decisions selection wise at the moment.

Iles seems to have had a real change in mood as well in the last couple of weeks - feels like there is a mood change. I suspect the squad rotation policy is having a negative impact. Play well, out the team (unless you are santos Jones or Charles), so why play well?

[Worthy4England]

Yeah, I think Geth struggles as a CB in a three, sometimes on height and "presence." Surprised he was started in a two.

[Mar]

Reading that we had naff all up top in the pre 80 min mark. We scored two disallowed goals. I get not being effective but getting two disallowed doesn't strike me as having no threat whatsoever.

As for the lovely football, its good when it works. Its not working at the moment and didn't work when Evatt first arrived. He's a streaky manager and this is a bad streak. I've got confidence he can turn it around and other managers would be a bigger gamble.

Sad thing is we're seeing repeated patterns play out and not looking like correcting them.

It does seem like a tempo thing. I'd say the impression of lack of pace is more a lack of tempo, we should be getting the ball forward quicker and being more clinical but we're not. I suspect its players trying to play it safe rather than risk a progressive forward pass.

Maybe the solution is to give them time off for a win just for the extra incentive and mix up the day to day. I'm sure there's some mental issues that could be alleviated around the team at the minute, whether it's stress or frustration who knows. But getting them to relax and enjoy might help considerably

So you haven’t watched the game but concluded we did in fact have a presence up front? We didn’t. Charles offers absolutely nothing to build off. The ball doesn’t stick. He doesn’t win anything. We might as well have not played a striker up there. Two offside goals doesn’t change that.

The difference is all but 5 yards between those being goals and not goals. Both were the right decision from the linesman and both are highly indicative of sloppiness from both the timing of the passes and the timing of the runs. Almost as if we're trying to do something that we've not perfected yet.

The crossing game to Dions first disallowd goal and Dad Bods last goal isn't usually something we've been that accustomed to seeing. It's usually get past the defence out wide and then ball across.

Similarly the ball through the middle is seemingly like a nice idea but not working out. How often are those attempts like Dions second translating to goals. Not frequently at the moment.

The strikers and the midfield aren't clicking at the moment. Perhaps it'll come but I suspect there's an element of frustration causing a problem.

As for Charles not offering enough in the final third, I'd agree but that's not his job. That's Kachungas job and despite his 5 assists he's getting grief too. So it would seem the players are a bit one dimensional at the moment. More assists from Charles and more goals from Kacha is the order of the day.

Charles is poor. We need to accept that. He has one thing he’s good at. And as a team most of our games don’t allow him to actually do that. If some big wallopers who think they will stroll past us like Sunderland last year come and play a high line then Charles is a good pick. But beyond that he has nothing to his game that helps us against sides who sit back and wait to pick us off. Outside the box and with his back to goal he’s absolutely rubbish.

The difference Bod and Baka made coming on was obvious. And they didn’t exactly play well they just were able to make the ball stick. Which allowed us to up the tempo. You can’t up the tempo with nothing up front.

You think everyone is poor so we should take the Charles comment with a pinch of salt.

We're better when we up the tempo. We do that when the subs come on. We need it throughout the match. We all know these things and I'm sure that if Charles was dropped he'd look like he'd be upping the tempo when he came on too.

I suspect its just bad game management from the players and possibly Evatt. There's no accounting for Rico style mistakes early on, but what we can do is ensure we up the tempo and get back in the game early on. It feels like we're waiting for the time to go and win games late on rather than setting our stall out as if you attack our goal we will come and punish you.

[BWFC_Insane]

Reading that we had naff all up top in the pre 80 min mark. We scored two disallowed goals. I get not being effective but getting two disallowed doesn't strike me as having no threat whatsoever.

As for the lovely football, its good when it works. Its not working at the moment and didn't work when Evatt first arrived. He's a streaky manager and this is a bad streak. I've got confidence he can turn it around and other managers would be a bigger gamble.

Sad thing is we're seeing repeated patterns play out and not looking like correcting them.

It does seem like a tempo thing. I'd say the impression of lack of pace is more a lack of tempo, we should be getting the ball forward quicker and being more clinical but we're not. I suspect its players trying to play it safe rather than risk a progressive forward pass.

Maybe the solution is to give them time off for a win just for the extra incentive and mix up the day to day. I'm sure there's some mental issues that could be alleviated around the team at the minute, whether it's stress or frustration who knows. But getting them to relax and enjoy might help considerably

So you haven’t watched the game but concluded we did in fact have a presence up front? We didn’t. Charles offers absolutely nothing to build off. The ball doesn’t stick. He doesn’t win anything. We might as well have not played a striker up there. Two offside goals doesn’t change that.

The difference is all but 5 yards between those being goals and not goals. Both were the right decision from the linesman and both are highly indicative of sloppiness from both the timing of the passes and the timing of the runs. Almost as if we're trying to do something that we've not perfected yet.

The crossing game to Dions first disallowd goal and Dad Bods last goal isn't usually something we've been that accustomed to seeing. It's usually get past the defence out wide and then ball across.

Similarly the ball through the middle is seemingly like a nice idea but not working out. How often are those attempts like Dions second translating to goals. Not frequently at the moment.

The strikers and the midfield aren't clicking at the moment. Perhaps it'll come but I suspect there's an element of frustration causing a problem.

As for Charles not offering enough in the final third, I'd agree but that's not his job. That's Kachungas job and despite his 5 assists he's getting grief too. So it would seem the players are a bit one dimensional at the moment. More assists from Charles and more goals from Kacha is the order of the day.

Charles is poor. We need to accept that. He has one thing he’s good at. And as a team most of our games don’t allow him to actually do that. If some big wallopers who think they will stroll past us like Sunderland last year come and play a high line then Charles is a good pick. But beyond that he has nothing to his game that helps us against sides who sit back and wait to pick us off. Outside the box and with his back to goal he’s absolutely rubbish.

The difference Bod and Baka made coming on was obvious. And they didn’t exactly play well they just were able to make the ball stick. Which allowed us to up the tempo. You can’t up the tempo with nothing up front.

You think everyone is poor so we should take the Charles comment with a pinch of salt.

We're better when we up the tempo. We do that when the subs come on. We need it throughout the match. We all know these things and I'm sure that if Charles was dropped he'd look like he'd be upping the tempo when he came on too.

I suspect its just bad game management from the players and possibly Evatt. There's no accounting for Rico style mistakes early on, but what we can do is ensure we up the tempo and get back in the game early on. It feels like we're waiting for the time to go and win games late on rather than setting our stall out as if you attack our goal we will come and punish you.

You can’t play 433 with Charles up front as he doesn’t offer anything. You can’t get away from the fact that at this level Charles is a one trick pony. Without space in behind his game is offering nothing of any use.

[Mar]

You can’t play 433 with Charles up front as he doesn’t offer anything. You can’t get away from the fact that at this level Charles is a one trick pony. Without space in behind his game is offering nothing of any use.

I see you are using the word 'fact' a lot and using it spuriously. The actually fact is Charles is neither a trick nor a pony.

[TANGODANCER]

As for Charles not offering enough in the final third, I'd agree but that's not his job. That's Kachungas job and despite his 5 assists he's getting grief too. So it would seem the players are a bit one dimensional at the moment. More assists from Charles and more goals from Kacha is the order of the day.

There were those (plenty of them, no names mentioned) who said the same of Kevin Davis, Mar (After Nat, my all time Wanderers hero) . Not winning, blame the striker ( and I've seen a few over 75 years) is a long-time song. It's a waste of time arguing

[Worthy4England]

I don't think anyone would really argue, we're not scoring enough goals. We're somewhere just below half-way in the league, in terms of goals scored. That's not all down to Charles, but I do agree with Insano, that Dion currently doesn't look well suited to the way we're trying to play (not that I think he's bad - he's shown us he knows where the net is). I'm not at all sure what we're trying to do with Kacha. As Mar says, it's often easier to come on in a no-lose situation and run like a maniac for 20 minutes, than it is to keep it going from the 1st minute. When Dad Bod has started, he's not always been "stand-out," same with Baka.

Evatt has said pretty much every game in October, that we've not been at our best. I see no reason to disagree with that view, nor why it should be particularly contentious to agree with it.

[TANGODANCER]

I don't think anyone would really argue, we're not scoring enough goals. We're somewhere just below half-way in the league, in terms of goals scored. That's not all down to Charles, but I do agree with Insano, that Dion currently doesn't look well suited to the way we're trying to play (not that I think he's bad - he's shown us he knows where the net is). I'm not at all sure what we're trying to do with Kacha. As Mar says, it's often easier to come on in a no-lose situation and run like a maniac for 20 minutes, than it is to keep it going from the 1st minute. When Dad Bod has started, he's not always been "stand-out," same with Baka.

Evatt has said pretty much every game in October, that we've not been at our best. I see no reason to disagree with that view, nor why it should be particularly contentious to agree with it.

Not sure why there's a red flag against that post, I never report anybody or anything. ? Don't need to. its a forum. There are no reportings or warnings in the mod lists.?

[BWFC_Insane]

As for Charles not offering enough in the final third, I'd agree but that's not his job. That's Kachungas job and despite his 5 assists he's getting grief too. So it would seem the players are a bit one dimensional at the moment. More assists from Charles and more goals from Kacha is the order of the day.

There were those (plenty of them, no names mentioned) who said the same of Kevin Davis, Mar (After Nat, my all time Wanderers hero) . Not winning, blame the striker ( and I've seen a few over 75 years) is a long-time song. It's a waste of time arguing

The difference is Davies was perfectly suited to the system we played and the way we played. He was the ultimate spear head in a 451/433 whatever you wish to call it. We were playing in behind teams through the middle so Davies was perfect for us.

He wasn’t prolific but we had other players who scored from different areas.

Charles needs early balls over the top and down the channels. We don’t do that and instead build play. He’s no good at that at all, he doesn’t suit us. That’s the point. Charles has one way of playing…one might argue so did super Kev but his one way perfectly matched the team he was in. When asked to offer something else before us he struggled at some clubs.

Charles would be great with space behind and early balls. His running would be a great way out. But we are never seeing teams give us space in behind and we aren’t setup to play those early balls.

[Worthy4England]

I don't think anyone would really argue, we're not scoring enough goals. We're somewhere just below half-way in the league, in terms of goals scored. That's not all down to Charles, but I do agree with Insano, that Dion currently doesn't look well suited to the way we're trying to play (not that I think he's bad - he's shown us he knows where the net is). I'm not at all sure what we're trying to do with Kacha. As Mar says, it's often easier to come on in a no-lose situation and run like a maniac for 20 minutes, than it is to keep it going from the 1st minute. When Dad Bod has started, he's not always been "stand-out," same with Baka.

Evatt has said pretty much every game in October, that we've not been at our best. I see no reason to disagree with that view, nor why it should be particularly contentious to agree with it.

Not sure why there's a red flag against that post, I never report anybody or anything. ? Don't need to. its a forum. There are no reportings or warnings in the mod lists.?

There aren't any "red flags" against it...Not sure what you mean TD.

You made the point that down the years, people have criticized strikers and there's no point arguing about it...All I'm saying is that our manager has highlighted the same problems that many folks have - we're not putting it in the onion often enough...That's not a criticism of any particular strikers, but as Insano suggests, we don't appear to be playing to Charles strengths and that other strikers in the squad might be better suited to the way we are playing.

Kacha has been a bit of a mystery to most folks - as Mar says he's not prolific at scoring, Dion isn't prolific at setting him up. Dapo has been all over the shop in terms of where IE has been playing him. Sadlier has struggled to get any sort of a go. All we're doing it talking about that...no red flags...

[boltonboris]

The team knows Dion's strengths, as does the manager. The fact that our build-up play has become slow, laboured and predictable, with zero movement from midfield, is not Dion Charles' fault.

[Worthy4England]

The team knows Dion's strengths, as does the manager. The fact that our build-up play has become slow, laboured and predictable, with zero movement from midfield, is not Dion Charles' fault.

Yeah - I'm not quite in the same place as Insano - hence the don't think we're playing to his strengths...

The way we're playing for the most part at the moment, looks like it might suit Bod better than Dion...

[TANGODANCER]

There aren't any "red flags" against it...Not sure what you mean TD.

All we're doing it talking about that...no red flags...

I agree Worthy. Must be my site (as a mod) but there's red flag next to Mar's post on my monitor stating I reported the post.? I certainly didn't, I assure you. I just wanted to make that point. I'm not that soft. It's a mystery?

[irie Cee Bee]

Evatt has Charles as our starting striker for his work rate. There could be no other reason. DadBod is our best striker at the moment followed by Baka. Those are the only two strikers who seem to cause defenders problems. Charles is best playing different to how Evatt wnats him to play. He should be on the shoulders of the defenders, running onto passes in behind them from our WB and Midfielders. We do not play to his strength as Evatt prefers him to be a defender high up the pitch than running into spaces to score goals. I don't think Charles is a bad as he looks or at least I hope not because he looks bad. He however certainly not be in my starting team at the moment.

Its also time we have a settled team. Rotation is confusing all of us. What is our first eleven?

[Worthy4England]

There aren't any "red flags" against it...Not sure what you mean TD.

All we're doing it talking about that...no red flags...

I agree Worthy. Must be my site (as a mod) but there's red flag next to Mar's post on my monitor stating I reported the post.? I certainly didn't, I assure you. I just wanted to make that point. I'm not that soft. It's a mystery?

I think there's only you can see that mate I dunno...

[Worthy4England]

Evatt has Charles as our starting striker for his work rate. There could be no other reason. DadBod is our best striker at the moment followed by Baka. Those are the only two strikers who seem to cause defenders problems. Charles is best playing different to how Evatt wnats him to play. He should be on the shoulders of the defenders, running onto passes in behind them from our WB and Midfielders. We do not play to his strength as Evatt prefers him to be a defender high up the pitch than running into spaces to score goals. I don't think Charles is a bad as he looks or at least I hope not because he looks bad. He however certainly not be in my starting team at the moment.

Its also time we have a settled team. Rotation is confusing all of us. What is our first eleven?

An interesting question at the end there. Stuffed if I can work it out!

I'd struggle to tell you what Iredale's "position" actually is...I've heard the talk that he's maybe a CB, maybe a LB, maybe a LWB (although I'm not sure that has universal support).

I suspect many would have:

1) Traf
1 CB) Santos - although maybe not BWFCI
Out on the left wing - Dapo

After that it's a lot less clear...

[BWFC_Insane]

The team knows Dion's strengths, as does the manager. The fact that our build-up play has become slow, laboured and predictable, with zero movement from midfield, is not Dion Charles' fault.

To an extent I agree. But nobody is coming to the Reebok and leaving space in behind now. So I think however we play Dion’s game will be a bit nullified especially at home. And the other aspects of his play really aren’t very good, at least not at the minute.

[boltonboris]

The team knows Dion's strengths, as does the manager. The fact that our build-up play has become slow, laboured and predictable, with zero movement from midfield, is not Dion Charles' fault.

To an extent I agree. But nobody is coming to the Reebok and leaving space in behind now. So I think however we play Dion’s game will be a bit nullified especially at home. And the other aspects of his play really aren’t very good, at least not at the minute.

The idea behind the slower build up, is probably to creep the opposition up our end of the pitch, but we don't play through any kind of pressure and just end up lobbing it to a defenders head. The timing of our release is all wrong, consistently