CAM on you Whites. Away to Cambridge United, Sat 12th Nov 3 o'clock .

[jmjhb]

I don't really understand how we've gone from freescoring enterprising football to the absolute opposite in the space of a few months.

I suppose it is working in the sense we have the joint second best defence in the EFL, just like how we were one of the top scorers last season. But, like last season, it's at the cost of effectiveness at the other end of the pitch.

It's not like he's not been backed either, with our January business being about half a million. Sure, in hindsight we should have done more in summer as some suggested.

A few months ago, win, draw or lose, we were genuinely entertaining to watch. Now it's just turgid, as well as being increasingly ineffective.

[Prufrock]

You'll forgive us if your senses tell you isn't enough to be persuaded by.

Of course fine to question Evatt. And if he got potted Richardson wouldn't be the worst shout. But absolute hard no from me just now.

I’m not expecting anyone to agree with the notion. I’m simply asking the question as to whether you believe the squad is being used to its full potential or not?

I don't think any squad in all of football ever has played to it's full potential. I think that's more than just a truism. The question for me is whether the manager is getting enough out of them all things considering.

Would be interesting to dig out the predictions thread, but I think most had play offs as about par for a good season. So we're very slightly below that.

It's frustrating, because most of these players have shown they're capable of better going forward. But then again I'm not sure anyone expected us to have the whatever it is best defensive record in the football league either.

[Bruce Rioja]

I’ve thought a lot about it this evening and for me whilst I’m not Evatt out or any of that nonsense if I was running the club I’d be on the phone to Richardson tonight to see if he fancies it.

Whereas I doubt that Evatt's going anywhere in the foreseeable anyway, if he were then I'd be waiting to see how the Gary O'Neil situation maps out long before I'd be getting on the blower to Richardson.
I've always considered it a massive mistake that the club didn't find a role for him.

[BWFC_Insane]

I’ve thought a lot about it this evening and for me whilst I’m not Evatt out or any of that nonsense if I was running the club I’d be on the phone to Richardson tonight to see if he fancies it.

Whereas I doubt that Evatt's going anywhere in the foreseeable anyway, if he were then I'd be waiting to see how the Gary O'Neil situation maps out long before I'd be getting on the blower to Richardson.
I've always considered it a massive mistake that the club didn't find a role for him.

I think that’s probably in the category of somewhat unrealistic. I’d also say it would be a huge jump to give O’Neil a management role based on a few games in charge of Bournemouth. It’s probably a bigger challenge here and I’d say might require a different skill set. I do agree he’s mighty impressive and how we didn’t find a back room role for him is a puzzler though with the chaos at the time perhaps not too surprising.

[Worthy4England]

Stats 2022.jpg (129.55 KiB) Viewed 607 times

Thinks this demonstrates it all. Yup deffo does. Evatt In/Out* delete as appropriate....

Strike-force is performing a lot worse (as if we couldn't see it) than even our pre-Christmas team last season. But much tighter defence...

[nicholaldo]

Stats 2022.jpgThinks this demonstrates it all. Yup deffo does. Evatt In/Out* delete as appropriate....

Strike-force is performing a lot worse (as if we couldn't see it) than even our pre-Christmas team last season. But much tighter defence...

Where's that from?

[nicholaldo]

I'm curious as to why Evatt, with four seasons of management under his belt and a record of improving his clubs' league position each season, including two promotions, hasn't got a track record to fall back on.

Also, irrespective of the merits (or lack thereof) of either manager, why thirteen appearances over a three-year period at this club twenty years ago should have any bearing on a manager's suitability.

[Worthy4England]

Stats 2022.jpgThinks this demonstrates it all. Yup deffo does. Evatt In/Out* delete as appropriate....

Strike-force is performing a lot worse (as if we couldn't see it) than even our pre-Christmas team last season. But much tighter defence...

Where's that from?

Worthy's I'm bored spreadsheet...data from official site...

[BWFC_Insane]

Stats 2022.jpgThinks this demonstrates it all. Yup deffo does. Evatt In/Out* delete as appropriate....

Strike-force is performing a lot worse (as if we couldn't see it) than even our pre-Christmas team last season. But much tighter defence...

Absolutely fascinating stats. Lots to chew over. One thing I’d take from them is Fossey was basically irreplaceable in terms of his impact in that system so really we should have looked at a different system in the summer to get the most out of our better attacking talents.

I’d also say that it’s very clear the period with Fossey we were electric going forwards and it tailed off after that. And this season we are more like sludge going forwards.

[Worthy4England]

Stats 2022.jpgThinks this demonstrates it all. Yup deffo does. Evatt In/Out* delete as appropriate....

Strike-force is performing a lot worse (as if we couldn't see it) than even our pre-Christmas team last season. But much tighter defence...

Absolutely fascinating stats. Lots to chew over. One thing I’d take from them is Fossey was basically irreplaceable in terms of his impact in that system so really we should have looked at a different system in the summer to get the most out of our better attacking talents.

I’d also say that it’s very clear the period with Fossey we were electric going forwards and it tailed off after that. And this season we are more like sludge going forwards.

You'll probably like this one Insano....results vs possession levels....

Possession.jpg (74.73 KiB) Viewed 545 times

[BWFC_Insane]

Stats 2022.jpgThinks this demonstrates it all. Yup deffo does. Evatt In/Out* delete as appropriate....

Strike-force is performing a lot worse (as if we couldn't see it) than even our pre-Christmas team last season. But much tighter defence...

Absolutely fascinating stats. Lots to chew over. One thing I’d take from them is Fossey was basically irreplaceable in terms of his impact in that system so really we should have looked at a different system in the summer to get the most out of our better attacking talents.

I’d also say that it’s very clear the period with Fossey we were electric going forwards and it tailed off after that. And this season we are more like sludge going forwards.

You'll probably like this one Insano....results vs possession levels....

Possession.jpg

I think that shows we are effective against teams who try and match us on the front foot but that there is a very clear way to beat us. Sit deep and play on the counter and try and win set pieces. The formula to beat bolton is pretty well established now. It was the same last season. We haven’t solved that issue yet.

[Prufrock]

I think that's fair and correct. The discussion previously has gone down a road as if we can manufacture games to have less possession and that will help us win. I don't think that's right. When teams come to sit in we're always going to have most of the ball. We need to find a way to hurt teams when we do, and we're definitely not doing the in the moment. Imo that's because we have no width high and wide, no wing backs with the pace and athleticism to handle an entire flank on their own, and no target in the box for crosses from deeper.

[BWFC_Insane]

I think that's fair and correct. The discussion previously has gone down a road as if we can manufacture games to have less possession and that will help us win. I don't think that's right. When teams come to sit in we're always going to have most of the ball. We need to find a way to hurt teams when we do, and we're definitely not doing the in the moment. Imo that's because we have no width high and wide, no wing backs with the pace and athleticism to handle an entire flank on their own, and no target in the box for crosses from deeper.

I think the problem is tempo. We don’t move the ball quickly enough. If a side is sitting in then it needs to be one or two touch passing and quickly moving it through them with purpose and passes that are weighted to put each other on the front foot. Doing that will mean we have less possession but it also means we should create more chances. And when we lose the ball if we press effectively we can enact turnovers and then get at those teams.

It’s not easy but you can always tell if we’re going to struggle if you see us passing it sideways before Santos knocks a long aimless diagonal. Happens most games and that is a tell tale sign we don’t know how to break the opposition down and they’ve got the better of us.

I would change the system to get our better players in their better roles but I’d argue that doesn’t solve the entire problem of why we can’t break teams down. Most of that is because we are too slow. Too slow to move it. Too slow to move it forwards. Too slow to offer options and movement. And too quick to just bunt it out wide.

We try and play like Man City without any of the gear shifts or ability to change the tempo mid move. And then we get to the halfway line and turn round which keeps the ball but plays entirely into the gameplan of our opponents.

We need to pass with more intensity, move off the ball far better and nobody should be taking more than two touches and ideally just one. If you want to be this type of team that’s the reality of how you have to play.

[TANGODANCER]

^^

Score a quick couple of goals and game plans become entirely different. Most of our opponents game plans seem to include aggression and long throws. Can't argue it was pace that made Fossey so effective, so some spring practise needed. I can't believe we have nobody quick, so find somebody.

[Worthy4England]

See that's sort of interesting...and we might be getting into the realms of pseudo-science here, but if I take the "possession time" as our share of 90 minutes (so 47% possession just works out at 47% of 90, because we don't have "ball in play" stats), then the numbers suggest we've never passed as quickly as we are doing now...

But I'm with (might have been Boris), that the problem isn't really when we're knocking it across the back, it's how fast we go in the final third. Of course a lot of that "speed-up" will be vs beginning of last season, when we were knocking it slowly across the back whilst they read a book to each other...

Edit: Also, from stats DSB and I think Brommers posted, there is no one above us in the league with a faster "direct speed" - it deffo doesn't feel that way though...

[BWFC_Insane]

See that's sort of interesting...and we might be getting into the realms of pseudo-science here, but if I take the "possession time" as our share of 90 minutes (so 47% possession just works out at 47% of 90, because we don't have "ball in play" stats), then the numbers suggest we've never passed as quickly as we are doing now...

But I'm with (might have been Boris), that the problem isn't really when we're knocking it across the back, it's how fast we go in the final third. Of course a lot of that "speed-up" will be vs beginning of last season, when we were knocking it slowly across the back whilst they read a book to each other...

Edit: Also, from stats DSB and I think Brommers posted, there is no one above us in the league with a faster "direct speed" - it deffo doesn't feel that way though...

You’ve lost me on how possession equates to ‘how quickly we are moving the ball’. What am I missing?

[Worthy4England]

We have possession for X amount of time. We know how many passes we make in the game (and you can't make one without possession), you should be able to derive how many passes we make per minute of possession - in fairness, I might have read my derived numbers the arse upwards...We're actually making less passes per minute of possession than last season.

It sort of shows that at <7 passes per minute of possession we generally lose (60%) and at greater than 10 passes per minute of possession we typically win (70%)...But we're talking pretty small sample sizes...

[BWFC_Insane]

We have possession for X amount of time. We know how many passes we make in the game (and you can't make one without possession), you should be able to derive how many passes we make per minute of possession - in fairness, I might have read my derived numbers the arse upwards...We're actually making less passes per minute of possession than last season.

It sort of shows that at <7 passes per minute of possession we generally lose (60%) and at greater than 10 passes per minute of possession we typically win (70%)...But we're talking pretty small sample sizes...

Right that’s clever. I don’t know it that would tell the story or if ball in play time might significantly skew the stat.

[Worthy4England]

Agree absolutely mate, and I wouldn't be submitting them as a science paper... but it does seem to be some of the things we think we're seeing in games is borne out...

[BWFC_Insane]

Yeah I think you only need a pair of eyes to see what’s going wrong, it’s been so accurately described by so many. I’m sure Evatt knows it too. I very much doubt he wants us passing it sideways before santos hoofs it and I see him screaming in exasperation as we go back to Trafford yet again. So I’m sure he doesn’t want it.

I suspect the issue we have is we are concerned about playing quicker and making the game more open, also that I think we clearly lack the tools in midfield. We’ve been saying this for two seasons, we don’t really have a great number ten nor do we have that all action Gary Speed type who can be up and down the pitch impacting the game off and on the ball. We have a largely passive and single skills set type midfield. Lee a runner and presser but not great on the ball or in front of goal. MJ great out of possession, not very good in possession. Morley, lovely passer, woeful at everything else. Dempsey…not sure what he’s particularly good at so far. GT a great runner and closest to that all rounder but just lacks the quality or the real physical dominance to be effective enough.

And then I think we are a proper centre half short.

If you sign someone with the qualities at our respective level of Stuart Holden and say Gudni Bergson we’d have much more freedom to up the tempo and play a game out at a higher pace. But without that defensive solidity and midfield all action type we feel constrained to try to just squeeze the life out of teams with possession.