Macs on for Fleetwood. V the Cod army away Nov 19th 22. 3.0'clock.

[officer_dibble]

Bod has been injured for a lot of the season. The lad is an international forward who has played all of his career at a higher level - he’s no andranik.

[Bruce Rioja]

Jared Borgetti - absolutely wasted on Allardyce who insisted on trying to play him in the SKD role. Utterly ridiculous. I remember watching us beat City 2-0 when Allardyce played Borgetti next to SKD and it was wonderful seeing us have a six-yard box poacher doing his stuff and feeding off of Davies, yet Allardyce insisted on trying to make a battering ram out of a slightly built, Lineker-esque finisher.

Career stats: 525 games and 271 goals.

[Worthy4England]

Jared Borgetti - absolutely wasted on Allardyce who insisted on trying to play him in the SKD role. Utterly ridiculous. I remember watching us beat City 2-0 when Allardyce played Borgetti next to SKD and it was wonderful seeing us have a six-yard box poacher doing his stuff and feeding off of Davies, yet Allardyce insisted on trying to make a battering ram out of a slightly built, Lineker-esque finisher.

Career stats: 525 games and 271 goals.

Yeah, sort of made you wonder why we signed him...

[sonicthewhite]

Never forget a certain Akinora Nishizawa I think that's how you spell it!

[Mar]

In those first two seasons after promotion we signed some really bad performing strikers. Pedersen possibly the biggest culprit and I'd argue the biggest surprise turn around we are likely to see for quite some years. Pedersen looked truly awful.

Nishizawa, Hansen, Bobic, Salva etc. The list goes on. They'd all had success elsewhere but not good enough premier league wise and I suspect that was down to Allardyce.

I love what he did for the club but those two seasons were very different than what he had later on in the Premier league.

We were shooting from range, leveraging tricky wingers to break the back line with pace and generally being vastly different from late Allardyce who criticised those shooting from range tactics.

Heck looking back on it we were lucky to still be in the premiership come the end of season 2. The signing of Laville is probably the biggest catalyst for the turn around as a dreadful Campo and misfiring Okocha suddenly became the quality players we all love.

Allardyce got lucky (or a masterstroke) with Ricketts and SKD as both players massively took us to the next level. Ricketts in terms of his natural quality and SKD with our systematic change.

Which brings me back to my main point. Weve had systems and game plans that focus on everyone but the striker. SKD was a prime example and I suspect the insistence in playing Charles is deliberate as despite his surprisingly poor goal return he is still being a handful with his pressing duties. Something i believe he does better than Baka or Dad Bod.

Kacha reminds me of the Gary Speed role. Simple things done well. Frustrating that he's not more direct but he is a focal instigator of our build up presumably 2 to 3 passes before the goals. Again indicative of our system but not something he should be lynched for.

Like the last match, the system and players are frustrating when it's not being applied to the best of what we know if can be but it's fairly clear there's a bigger intention there.

[BWFC_Insane]

I’ve no idea what that post is trying to say but it seems wildly inaccurate. We went up to the premiership off the back of Ricketts goals. We stayed up there primarily off the back of Ricketts goals and Nolan and latterly Youri. The reason we signed Pedersen who was far from terrible is because we had NO MONEY to spend and strikers at the time were going for many millions of pounds and we were to all intents and purposes completely broke.

Kachunga is a million trillion miles away from Speed who was an up and down midfield player. I’ve no idea what Kachunga is but he’s not that.

And Davies was a focal point as a striker. Whilst it’s true we need a different type of focal point the problem is that Charles does not offer that focal point and is clearly and obviously out of his depth right now when we are in possession. The argument about his workrate is done to death but we don’t have a press when Lee isn’t playing and I can barely recall a situation we’ve benefitted from with a press that frankly couldn’t be achieved with other strikers. Same for Kacha. Sometimes you just have to play your best players. That is Dapo, Dad Bod and Sadlier. By a country mile.

[officer_dibble]

Vaguely recall a number of strikers pre Pedersen when we went up. Bo Hansen (who was already at the club in the championship), Holdsworth (ditto), Rod Wallace (one season?) and Delboy Facey. Henrik cost us a million pound fee but was upgraded for Diouf and Stelios thereafter, as well as Borgetti (agree with Bruce - criminally underused). Les Ferdinand we had for a while as well second or third season back up I think?

[officer_dibble]

Kacha as Gary speed is interesting- maybe he would benefit from being played in centre mid!!

[knobpolisher]

Kacha and Speed should never ever be mentioned in the same sentence.

[Worthy4England]

Vaguely recall a number of strikers pre Pedersen when we went up. Bo Hansen (who was already at the club in the championship), Holdsworth (ditto), Rod Wallace (one season?) and Delboy Facey. Henrik cost us a million pound fee but was upgraded for Diouf and Stelios thereafter, as well as Borgetti (agree with Bruce - criminally underused). Les Ferdinand we had for a while as well second or third season back up I think?

Some of this came off the back of flogging Eidur, Jensen and Fish, then if memory serves our TV money went from £2m in 2001 to £24m in 2004..

The notion that our transfer strategy was driven more by Allardyce's pick of strikers/formation, rather than what dosh was available, I don't think is correct (no more than I'd think Evatt isn't working to a budget)

[BWFC_Insane]

Vaguely recall a number of strikers pre Pedersen when we went up. Bo Hansen (who was already at the club in the championship), Holdsworth (ditto), Rod Wallace (one season?) and Delboy Facey. Henrik cost us a million pound fee but was upgraded for Diouf and Stelios thereafter, as well as Borgetti (agree with Bruce - criminally underused). Les Ferdinand we had for a while as well second or third season back up I think?

We went up with Deano and Ricketts. They both stayed and we added Wallace and Pedersen. We were absolutely bargain basement shopping at the time.

[officer_dibble]

Ah yes - summer 01
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 420715.stm

“Strong and quick” not sure about the last one!

[Mar]

I’ve no idea what that post is trying to say but it seems wildly inaccurate. We went up to the premiership off the back of Ricketts goals. We stayed up there primarily off the back of Ricketts goals and Nolan and latterly Youri.

I'd agree as far as the first season goes. The second season is completely different as Ricketts had gone and Kevin Nolan was reduced to 105 mins game time from the last 13 matches. As good as Kevin Nolan was, his second premiership season he was playing second fiddle. He had 1 goal (the one against utd) and 0 assists in that second season.

Source: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kevin-n ... aison=2002

The reason we signed Pedersen who was far from terrible is because we had NO MONEY to spend and strikers at the time were going for many millions of pounds and we were to all intents and purposes completely broke.

Pedersen wasn't a bad player. He was just bad in those first two seasons. As soon as we shifted play styles we ended up seeing the best of him. That's the turn around i'm referring to, but its hard not to notice the lack of goals and loaning him out to Silkeborg at the tail end of his first season. It just wasn't working.

Kachunga is a million trillion miles away from Speed who was an up and down midfield player. I’ve no idea what Kachunga is but he’s not that.

For comparison purposes, Speed wasn't a man piercing defences, he was passing wide and breaking up play. Kachunga seems to be doing a similar job in closing down and passing wide and linking up others.

[BWFC_Insane]

I’ve no idea what that post is trying to say but it seems wildly inaccurate. We went up to the premiership off the back of Ricketts goals. We stayed up there primarily off the back of Ricketts goals and Nolan and latterly Youri.

I'd agree as far as the first season goes. The second season is completely different as Ricketts had gone and Kevin Nolan was reduced to 105 mins game time from the last 13 matches. As good as Kevin Nolan was, his second premiership season he was playing second fiddle. He had 1 goal (the one against utd) and 0 assists in that second season.

Source: https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/kevin-n ... aison=2002

The reason we signed Pedersen who was far from terrible is because we had NO MONEY to spend and strikers at the time were going for many millions of pounds and we were to all intents and purposes completely broke.

Pedersen wasn't a bad player. He was just bad in those first two seasons. As soon as we shifted play styles we ended up seeing the best of him. That's the turn around i'm referring to, but its hard not to notice the lack of goals and loaning him out to Silkeborg at the tail end of his first season. It just wasn't working.

Kachunga is a million trillion miles away from Speed who was an up and down midfield player. I’ve no idea what Kachunga is but he’s not that.

For comparison purposes, Speed wasn't a man piercing defences, he was passing wide and breaking up play. Kachunga seems to be doing a similar job in closing down and passing wide and linking up others.

Pedersen was signed in promotion for chicken feed. He was always going to be a squad player. In his second season when Ricketts left at Christmas and we ended up sending West Ham down Pedersen did a manful job up front on his own working hard to bring the likes of Youri and Okocha in. He was always limited but at a time when a decent premiership striker was pushing towards £10M it was hardly surprising that HP who cost under £1M was just a utility type player who gave his all. He was never intended to score 20 goals a season. It’s why we got Bobic in the season before because HP was always a solid squad addition and no more because Allardyce had no money to work with.

Your comparison with Speed and Kachunga entirely breaks down because Kachunga isn’t a midfield player doesn’t do the role Speed did and is a completely and utterly different sort of player. Speed was a box to box midfield player with bags of energy, kept the ball, won it. He was a midfield player. He was a top class one too.

Whatever Kachunga is he’s not a midfield player and I think the comparison falls apart completely.

[Mar]

Your comparison with Speed and Kachunga entirely breaks down because Kachunga isn’t a midfield player doesn’t do the role Speed did and is a completely and utterly different sort of player. Speed was a box to box midfield player with bags of energy, kept the ball, won it. He was a midfield player. He was a top class one too.

Whatever Kachunga is he’s not a midfield player and I think the comparison falls apart completely.

People can compare players speeds, height, jumping reach, strength, aggression, fitness levels, etc. but as soon as you compare passing and play styles the comparison falls apart because they play different roles... Might be a lack of imagination on your part or a lack of clarity on my part, either way the comparison is down to directness in the play, neither Speed nor Kacha are particular direct in their play style, make of that what you will.

[BWFC_Insane]

Your comparison with Speed and Kachunga entirely breaks down because Kachunga isn’t a midfield player doesn’t do the role Speed did and is a completely and utterly different sort of player. Speed was a box to box midfield player with bags of energy, kept the ball, won it. He was a midfield player. He was a top class one too.

Whatever Kachunga is he’s not a midfield player and I think the comparison falls apart completely.

People can compare players speeds, height, jumping reach, strength, aggression, fitness levels, etc. but as soon as you compare passing and play styles the comparison falls apart because they play different roles... Might be a lack of imagination on your part or a lack of clarity on my part, either way the comparison is down to directness in the play, neither Speed nor Kacha are particular direct in their play style, make of that what you will.

I’m not even sure what that means. Campo wasn’t a particularly direct player. But there is no comparison between him and Kachunga.

The bottom line is that Kachunga and Charles have to improve their games in many areas considerably if they are to keep their places and we are to do well. It has little to do with how direct they are or aren’t but simply how effective they are. So far neither have been effective beyond workrate and of late as teams sit deeper their workrate is nullified.

[officer_dibble]

https://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/sport/2 ... e-bust-up/

£4,000 fine for the scuffle.

Prompted me to watch again…what fine does the fourth official get for missing two fleetwood red cards?? Even their home commentators are saying Rooney should have gone and batty later on! Dickhead!