A switch of the (h) Ips and we're gone..Home V THE Tractor Boys Sat 11th Mar. 3-0'clock

[Bertie Wooster]

Surely if your a manager who is set in a certain system & way of playing you target and bring in players suitable & comfortable playing in that system, you don't bring in players who are not suited or used to playing in that system - square pegs in round holes etc. or you tweak your system to bring the best out of the new player or players

[boltonboris]

^^ To me its clear Evatt wanted to use January to transition a bit and add power and pace. The problem with that is the players brought in are all struggling with how we play, especially the forwards. Who are all more used to quicker service. The way we are playing doesn't bring out the best in them, especially Ade. And the delivery out wide, we presumably hoped Williams would help with is compromised because our best delivery is John - who has other issues and RW hasn't yet shown the balance in his game or basic fitness to really warrant inclusion.

I come back to the fact that any striker who is mainly a box player (as Ade is) will struggle when delivery from our main outlet in Bradley is consistently abysmal and we don't really have a settled option the other side. As soon as we're trying to play back inside you see Ade look lost because its just not what he's used to and his triggers and movements are all set on an earlier ball into the box.

I get that his movement and his style don't currently benefit how we play and vice-versa, but the issue so far, looks like a lack of physicality from him. He's a big lump, but isn't quick, or strong, or wins headers..

But as you say, it's alarming how we don't get the ball into the strikers from advanced positions, often enough - That Charlton away game looks a distant memory

[BWFC_Insane]

^^ To me its clear Evatt wanted to use January to transition a bit and add power and pace. The problem with that is the players brought in are all struggling with how we play, especially the forwards. Who are all more used to quicker service. The way we are playing doesn't bring out the best in them, especially Ade. And the delivery out wide, we presumably hoped Williams would help with is compromised because our best delivery is John - who has other issues and RW hasn't yet shown the balance in his game or basic fitness to really warrant inclusion.

I come back to the fact that any striker who is mainly a box player (as Ade is) will struggle when delivery from our main outlet in Bradley is consistently abysmal and we don't really have a settled option the other side. As soon as we're trying to play back inside you see Ade look lost because its just not what he's used to and his triggers and movements are all set on an earlier ball into the box.

I get that his movement and his style don't currently benefit how we play and vice-versa, but the issue so far, looks like a lack of physicality from him. He's a big lump, but isn't quick, or strong, or wins headers..

But as you say, it's alarming how we don't get the ball into the strikers from advanced positions, often enough - That Charlton away game looks a distant memory

Interesting - all opinions isn't it but I think he's done ok back to goal. His problem is he then isn't used to releasing it quickly and when he does release it often makes an error. Its clearly (at least to my eyes) not his game. He is used to maybe holding it up, drawing a foul or a simple lay off then expecting an early deliver into the box.

I mean Bodvarrsson is the classic 'big man who is surprisingly mobile but better with his feet than anything else' so you can see why he fitted in to an Evatt team. Adeboyejo isn't that. And he's not quick either.

The delivery has been a problem all season. I feel sorry for Charles (even though he's a bit wasteful at times) because the lad gets such utter rubbish from out wide. If I was playing us I'd say 'let Bradley have the ball but don't let him come inside' soon as you do that we look lost. Block him cutting in and he has so much ball but has zero threat. And when John plays well some of that is mitigated because he can offer something from the left. But again he's got issues. Randy hasn't done enough yet - and his delivery generally hasn't been great.

I think its one of our big problems - we have to play REALLY well to win a lot of these games. We need people flying in at all angles. We need to be right on top. We can't just build a bit of pressure and score off a cross or a set piece - not often and it means that our game is really struggling when we have these sorts of dips.

I'd say Accrington in the cup is a good example. We had 10 men we played ok second half, we kept going and trying to get Bradley in behind, but they just about managed that situation (or we messed it up). In the end Jones just puts a ball in from the other side, it bounces round a bit and Kachunga smashes it in. But mostly, especially against better sides we simply can't find a way to do that and threaten.

More quality into the box and you don't have to 'do' as much to score a goal. If I was to ultimately say what the difference between us and Ipswich is its that. Ipswich are a good side they made the game difficult. But it was a tight game and they'd done little until their breakaway which was completely clinical. And then a corner and bang game is done. They didn't need to carve out a dozen opportunities, or get dozens of good overloads. They were comfortable with the fact that they can be compact, press us, keep their shape and that they would score when a half chance presents itself. Because their final ball and delivery are both reliable. Our problem in these games is that our final ball is not reliable and our delivery almost non existent. And I go back to another example - where we had the Postman who for half a season raised an average group of players above their level with simple delivery into the box at a standard that meant we won a lot of games regardless of how well we played in them. There is more to it than that and its not directly comparable. But it was a way to score goals without being our best without needing to hammer a team all over the park. We could win games with one set piece delivery or one superb cross. There were obviously other factors but I look at how much running and work Morley and Bradley and Dempsey put in. How many times Bradley bombs down that side from wing back - way better than Morais ever could dream of....but how little actually comes from it.

[GhostoftheBok]

Not the first time I've seen someone say Vik isn't strong enough and I'm just going to pop that in the "bizarro world" section where it belongs.

Vik isn't slow, but like Charles is is one-paced. If he has a head start on a centre back they usually don't catch him, but he's not bursting away from anyone with a quick turn.

I think Insane is right in that he's basically learning the patterns with us. He's technically solid, he's extremely powerful and he works hard. We've also seen from his time at Burton that he can score goals, but at the minute we're not creating decent chances for anyone - it's not just Vik. He has two assists and a goal thus far and I'm not worried about him. With strikers being so dependent on the team around them for their stats it's about getting the rest right.

When Charles was knackered Vik stepped up and won us a game where we were struggling, so we know his attitude is right. He's another player Evatt has who does the job he's been asked to do and who the manager will trust.

[GhostoftheBok]

To get a bit into the weeds, our transfer strategy since we came up has fairly clearly been to improve the squad, more than it has been to try and get one star player to lift the 11. Evatt used to talk about the drop-off between his first and second 11s and how it made consistency impossible if we had injuries. We've now had injuries and have largely maintained our levels.

The issue in the summer will be whether there's too much work to do again to get that one or two players in who are just much better than the league.

We now have enough options in the squad that we're basically a top 8 team with our worst 11 out there, but our best 11 isn't top 2 - which it needs to be.

Assuming we don't win the play-offs there's plenty to do to get to where we need to be - worst side you put out should still get top 6, your best 11 should win the thing.

I'm confident there's enough in the market to get that done, but it will mean a change in what we aim for.

[BWFC_Insane]

To get a bit into the weeds, our transfer strategy since we came up has fairly clearly been to improve the squad, more than it has been to try and get one star player to lift the 11. Evatt used to talk about the drop-off between his first and second 11s and how it made consistency impossible if we had injuries. We've now had injuries and have largely maintained our levels.

The issue in the summer will be whether there's too much work to do again to get that one or two players in who are just much better than the league.

We now have enough options in the squad that we're basically a top 8 team with our worst 11 out there, but our best 11 isn't top 2 - which it needs to be.

Assuming we don't win the play-offs there's plenty to do to get to where we need to be - worst side you put out should still get top 6, your best 11 should win the thing.

I'm confident there's enough in the market to get that done, but it will mean a change in what we aim for.

I'd say the system we play is very hard to recruit to since its entirely reliant on two wing backs who are either perfectly complimentary or who can both do all things well enough. There are not that many wing backs around. Not of the quality we need. And then the problem is its a hard running role...so you need 4....

Its also entirely reliant on someone as good, clever and experience as Lee in the role he plays. Again we are a worse team without him but he cannot play every game. And finding that player is difficult.

Its something Evatt should look at in the summer. Quality wide players exist. Quality up and down midfield players exist. That specialist pressing number 10 - less so. Wing backs - less so. You're just reducing your pool and also upping the requirements in any single player.

[GhostoftheBok]

I'd say the system we play is very hard to recruit to since its entirely reliant on two wing backs who are either perfectly complimentary or who can both do all things well enough. There are not that many wing backs around. Not of the quality we need. And then the problem is its a hard running role...so you need 4....

Its also entirely reliant on someone as good, clever and experience as Lee in the role he plays. Again we are a worse team without him but he cannot play every game. And finding that player is difficult.

Its something Evatt should look at in the summer. Quality wide players exist. Quality up and down midfield players exist. That specialist pressing number 10 - less so. Wing backs - less so. You're just reducing your pool and also upping the requirements in any single player.

I sort of agree and sort of don't.

Evatt's plan in the summer looked like having one attacking option and one defensive. It turned out Bradley was amazing, so he just plays every game. On the left the relationship with Jon imploded and we didn't rate the loanee as ready, so it was just Iredale.

I think the initial concept was Iredale and Jones when solidity was needed and John and Bradley when we wanted to get at teams.

We're still trying that on the left, but now it's Jones who plays out of position to cover that side.

We'd obviously like two Bradleys, who are just so good they can play any game. As with players like Wes Burn, Kane Wilson etc.

If John can't be got rid of (Evatt doesn't trust him, but he's under contract) then we won't do business on that left side. We have Williams, John, Iredale and Jonhston contracted there and all on decent money. If we can move John on then I daresay we'd love a lefty Bradley, but it depends what's in the market and as you say it's hard to do.

We have more room on the right. I suspect Jones will be cover for RWB and we'll sign a RCB to push Toal, then one RWB. Probably the emphasis will be on attacking prowess, but again if another Bradley/Fossey sort is there to be had then that's great. I do wonder if we might go back in for Kane Wilson, who we tracked but couldn't get near. He's been injured at Bristol and reportedly had fallings out there.

Signing a top quality player in any position is hard, especially so all-rounders who are always in demand. Obviously the issue with specialists is that if we get an injury you lose an option, but it's not going to be possible to sign two top-quality all-rounders per position on our budgets in league one. Evatt giving himself tactical options is probably no bad thing with that in mind.

[GhostoftheBok]

Also probably worth noting that they tried to recruit to allow for changes of formation. Hence players like Sadlier.

That looks dead in the water now.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'd say the system we play is very hard to recruit to since its entirely reliant on two wing backs who are either perfectly complimentary or who can both do all things well enough. There are not that many wing backs around. Not of the quality we need. And then the problem is its a hard running role...so you need 4....

Its also entirely reliant on someone as good, clever and experience as Lee in the role he plays. Again we are a worse team without him but he cannot play every game. And finding that player is difficult.

Its something Evatt should look at in the summer. Quality wide players exist. Quality up and down midfield players exist. That specialist pressing number 10 - less so. Wing backs - less so. You're just reducing your pool and also upping the requirements in any single player.

I sort of agree and sort of don't.

Evatt's plan in the summer looked like having one attacking option and one defensive. It turned out Bradley was amazing, so he just plays every game. On the left the relationship with Jon imploded and we didn't rate the loanee as ready, so it was just Iredale.

I think the initial concept was Iredale and Jones when solidity was needed and John and Bradley when we wanted to get at teams.

We're still trying that on the left, but now it's Jones who plays out of position to cover that side.

We'd obviously like two Bradleys, who are just so good they can play any game. As with players like Wes Burn, Kane Wilson etc.

If John can't be got rid of (Evatt doesn't trust him, but he's under contract) then we won't do business on that left side. We have Williams, John, Iredale and Jonhston contracted there and all on decent money. If we can move John on then I daresay we'd love a lefty Bradley, but it depends what's in the market and as you say it's hard to do.

We have more room on the right. I suspect Jones will be cover for RWB and we'll sign a RCB to push Toal, then one RWB. Probably the emphasis will be on attacking prowess, but again if another Bradley/Fossey sort is there to be had then that's great. I do wonder if we might go back in for Kane Wilson, who we tracked but couldn't get near. He's been injured at Bristol and reported had fallings out there.

Signing a top quality player in any position is hard, especially so all-rounders who are always in demand. Obviously the issue with specialists is that if we get an injury you lose an option, but it's not going to be possible to sign two top-quality all-rounders per position on our budgets in league on. Evatt giving himself tactical options is probably no bad thing with that in mind.

The point is 2 Bradleys would be no good since we'd have zero delivery either side....

Bradley is not for me good enough to carry the system we're trying to play. That's the issue. He would be outstanding if we had a left sider who was a Morais like crosser. OR if he could be an attacking right back (which is what he really is). He's being asked to be a wing back and do so much in that role that I think its taking away the things he's outstanding at and simply putting pressure on those things he's not that good at.

Just a view. He's our 'best outfield player' but I'm unconvinced that this system maximises him OR accounts for his abilities and weaknesses well.

[Worthy4England]

In respect of Bradley, I have a sneaking suspicion that he's doing what Evatt wants him to do (roughly), more often than not - which seems to be pull the ball back to the apex. If he wasn't doing what Evatt and the coaching team wanted him to do more often than not, I think they'd rest him, I guess we could switch to Gethin at R(W)B - although he seems to be covering the shitshow that's L(W)B...

[GhostoftheBok]

The point is 2 Bradleys would be no good since we'd have zero delivery either side....

Bradley is not for me good enough to carry the system we're trying to play. That's the issue. He would be outstanding if we had a left sider who was a Morais like crosser. OR if he could be an attacking right back (which is what he really is). He's being asked to be a wing back and do so much in that role that I think its taking away the things he's outstanding at and simply putting pressure on those things he's not that good at.

Just a view. He's our 'best outfield player' but I'm unconvinced that this system maximises him OR accounts for his abilities and weaknesses well.

I think if we had two Bradleys then the running and getting into the box would be enough. You're then looking to improve the delivery from the wide centre back areas and deeper in midfield. Bradley's delivery will improve with time - just like we should see natural growth from our contracted young players.

I imagine a lefty Bradley with Iredale at LCB would be very effective, for example.

I'm using Bradley as a type, rather than a specific. In specific he's young and his decision-making with the ball will improve. If he was supported on the right by, for example, someone like Bobby Thomas we'd also have fewer issues.

The most important issue we have right now on both flanks is finding wing backs who can run for 90 mins and still offer quality. Bradley isn't perfect, but he gives us that in spades and as such has been superb for us. It's what's around him that hasn't done enough at times, not just his flaws being the issue. You don't tend to get perfect players in this league.

If we can find a Wes Burns, amazing. Maybe Remeao Hutton could be that for us, I don't know. But the type exists. Ipswich paid Fleetwood what totalled to half a million over time for Burns, which looks money very well spent.

It's hard to know what Evatt sees in training. Williams has shown he can put good balls in and has composure in attacking areas, but can he offer consistent performances once up to speed? Can he get fit enough to run for 90 mins? I don't have those answers and without them it's hard to know what Evatt needs on the left. On the right we'll be almost a blank slate, if he wants us to be. It'll be about balancing those options at RWB and RCB to produce what we need down that flank.

[Prufrock]

Midfield is the big one for me. I think we have a very good 3 in Morley, Dempsey and Lee, but Lee has only got an hour in him, and we have basically no cover for the other two (or haven't recently with GT's injury). It's so much work in there for M+D and we just haven't been able to freshen it up. Williams doesn't have the legs nor does Sheehan. Worth bearing in mind they were both recruited in L2/as we were promoted. You'd hope we can go and really upgrade there, and get the 10 we need long term.

I still think there's lots of scope for improvement. We've been compared to Wycombe. When Evatt took over they were in the Champo and we had one senior played signed up in L2. Nearly three years later we're above them. I'll take our trajectory, thanks.

Worth bearing in mind there are lots of players in our squad who we signed in L2 or just as we came up. I think we should be able to upgrade on lots of them this summer, not even necessarily spending more money (we're a more attractive prospect to players then we were two years ago).

Sheehan, Williams, John, Kachunga. If we can replace those four with upgrades, I think we'll take another big step forward.

Will need to replace Traf and Bradley though.

[GhostoftheBok]

Midfield is the big one for me. I think we have a very good 3 in Morley, Dempsey and Lee, but Lee has only got an hour in him, and we have basically no cover for the other two (or haven't recently with GT's injury). It's so much work in there for M+D and we just haven't been able to freshen it up. Williams doesn't have the legs nor does Sheehan. Worth bearing in mind they were both recruited in L2/as we were promoted. You'd hope we can go and really upgrade there, and get the 10 we need long term.

I still think there's lots of scope for improvement. We've been compared to Wycombe. When Evatt took over they were in the Champo and we had one senior played signed up in L2. Nearly three years later we're above them. I'll take our trajectory, thanks.

Worth bearing in mind there are lots of players in our squad who we signed in L2 or just as we came up. I think we should be able to upgrade on lots of them this summer, not even necessarily spending more money (we're a more attractive prospect to players then we were two years ago).

Sheehan, Williams, John, Kachunga. If we can replace those four with upgrades, I think we'll take another big step forward.

Will need to replace Traf and Bradley though.

How to say this without my usual waffle...

We're not losing contracted first teamers in the summer. We're in a good state with contracts generally. The nailed-on first teamers going are loanees.

We don't need to do massive work to be better than we are right now. We have players bedding in, players to return from injuries and younger players who are improving by the month.

The issue is the number of deals we need to do. As things stand we need up to a dozen players in the summer. The first 11 can be better with 3-4 additions, but if you add 12 players you don't want 8-9 to just make up the numbers - you want a huge lift.

[boltonboris]

After Friday night, we have a 16(?) day break until the final - Time enough to look at a switch to a 4-3-3?

Do we have enough quality in wide attacking areas?

I see no reason why Bradley couldn't play on the right of a 4-3-3 with Shola on the left, but are we then going to still have difficulties getting the ball into the box?

[GhostoftheBok]

After Friday night, we have a 16(?) day break until the final - Time enough to look at a switch to a 4-3-3?

Why?

[BWFC_Insane]

After Friday night, we have a 16(?) day break until the final - Time enough to look at a switch to a 4-3-3?

Do we have enough quality in wide attacking areas?

I see no reason why Bradley couldn't play on the right of a 4-3-3 with Shola on the left, but are we then going to still have difficulties getting the ball into the box?

We sold all our wide attacking players. So I think that would make little if any sense.

I think we need to shake things up a little on Friday - we need some freshness in the team but short of trying a 343 I can't see much of a system change on the horizon.

[Prufrock]

Midfield is the big one for me. I think we have a very good 3 in Morley, Dempsey and Lee, but Lee has only got an hour in him, and we have basically no cover for the other two (or haven't recently with GT's injury). It's so much work in there for M+D and we just haven't been able to freshen it up. Williams doesn't have the legs nor does Sheehan. Worth bearing in mind they were both recruited in L2/as we were promoted. You'd hope we can go and really upgrade there, and get the 10 we need long term.

I still think there's lots of scope for improvement. We've been compared to Wycombe. When Evatt took over they were in the Champo and we had one senior played signed up in L2. Nearly three years later we're above them. I'll take our trajectory, thanks.

Worth bearing in mind there are lots of players in our squad who we signed in L2 or just as we came up. I think we should be able to upgrade on lots of them this summer, not even necessarily spending more money (we're a more attractive prospect to players then we were two years ago).

Sheehan, Williams, John, Kachunga. If we can replace those four with upgrades, I think we'll take another big step forward.

Will need to replace Traf and Bradley though.

How to say this without my usual waffle...

We're not losing contracted first teamers in the summer. We're in a good state with contracts generally. The nailed-on first teamers going are loanees.

We don't need to do massive work to be better than we are right now. We have players bedding in, players to return from injuries and younger players who are improving by the month.

The issue is the number of deals we need to do. As things stand we need up to a dozen players in the summer. The first 11 can be better with 3-4 additions, but if you add 12 players you don't want 8-9 to just make up the numbers - you want a huge lift.

Maybe Johnston if he won't sign. But otherwise yeah.

Of the best XI I'd pick, only Traff and Bradley (and maybe Johnston) won't be here next year.

I think we should be looking at upgrades on the four I mentioned. Plus replace the 5 loanees. So 9. Some of who I'd expect to be loanees. It's a fair chunk, but it's doable.

GK: [*2]
CB: Toal, Santos, Johnstone, Iredale [+2]
WB: Jones, Williams [+2]
CM: Morley, Dempsey, Lee, Thomason [+2]
Cf: Charles, Ade, Jerome [+1]

Obvs you might pick Jones at CB and need one more WB, or Iredale at WB and one more CB. But that's where I am on numbers.

[Prufrock]

After Friday night, we have a 16(?) day break until the final - Time enough to look at a switch to a 4-3-3?

Do we have enough quality in wide attacking areas?

I see no reason why Bradley couldn't play on the right of a 4-3-3 with Shola on the left, but are we then going to still have difficulties getting the ball into the box?

We sold all our wide attacking players. So I think that would make little if any sense.

I think we need to shake things up a little on Friday - we need some freshness in the team but short of trying a 343 I can't see much of a system change on the horizon.

My thoughts on the formation are well known, but I don't think we'll be going back any time soon. Given he talked so much about flexibility I am surprised we haven't really seen the 343 much. Gives you options especially where we're relying on delivery out wide. And easier to switch to with minimal changes for the back 5 and two midfielders.

I mean he might say that's what we've been doing when Shoretire and Lee have both started.

Though worth remembering Shola is cup tied for the final anyway. That will be Lee behind Charles and one of Jerome and Kacha.

[boltonboris]

After Friday night, we have a 16(?) day break until the final - Time enough to look at a switch to a 4-3-3?

Why?

Element of Surprise?

Because we'll have 2 available strikers and the current system looks to be getting sussed out and we've struggled against Plymouth playing it?

There was also a question mark next to it, which suggests I was merely asking the question.. To gauge an opinion from others

Although, I've just realised that Shola is also unavailable.. throwing a spanner in those works

So we're going in without an attacking midfielder and 2 of our Jan striker signings - We'll be going in light on numbers in the formation we play and on the back of a poor run of results - Friday night may change that, but I can't see it unfortunately

[BWFC_Insane]

Can I just say that any suggestion we don't offer Bod a new contract is out the window for me now. He's a step up over other options to partner Charles and would be playing now if he were fit.