The Champions Go Again! FLT at Home v Salford Sept 5th, 7:45

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Dad will improve. I get the worries but he's missed so much football and it takes time to get back into it.

His last start was January 9th. That's a hella long time. We're early in the season, and it depends where the cutoff is, but you suspect he might have to go some to hit the extension-triggering appearance number. And might that clause be why he's sat unused on the bench three times before last night?

[BWFC_Insane]

I’ve got to be brutally honest beyond Vic and Dion I don’t think any of our other striking options as it stands would get into any league side. Including league two. We know JDB is a really good player but fitness…and all that goes with it are a worry…

Jerome….he’s just probably transitioning to coaching. It was a decent idea as an experienced sort but it’s not worked.

And Dan…it was a bizarre decision to sign him and well….there is so much I could say. But I’d ask…does he even really want to be a football player? Cos I don’t see the hunger and drive in him on the pitch. You could watch yesterday and see how much JDB was hurting….the fact he was struggling visibly pained him. He almost collapsed when he knew he was coming off and knew it hadn’t really worked for him. Jones is the same…when he’s off you can see it’s killing him. Mendes Gomes when he gave it away once collapsed in a heap of frustration at himself. With Nlundulu I don’t see any drive, if you are 24 and haven’t played any real football the very least you should or could do is barrel into challenges show massive enthusiasm to make runs demand the ball, look like you are massively trying…….the very least…..

[Prufrock]

Dad will improve. I get the worries but he's missed so much football and it takes time to get back into it.

His last start was January 9th. That's a hella long time. We're early in the season, and it depends where the cutoff is, but you suspect he might have to go some to hit the extension-triggering appearance number. And might that clause be why he's sat unused on the bench three times before last night?

I doubt it at this stage, though maybe a small secondary factor. I think he's miles off fitness wise to the point where he's on the for emergencies (as you've pointed out elsewhere, we don't have a big squad) or maybe a run out if we're comfortably ahead. Think he'll start the PJ games to build fitness and we'll start to see him ahead of Dan and Jerome off the bench.

Can't see them agreeing to that contact with that clause in the summer and already be worrying about him triggering it. Particularly given how uninspiring the other two have been, I think you're quite happy for Dad to put his hand up and play his way into another year.

It might be a small factor in them not throwing him on for 5 mins though, and "wasting" an appearance.

Though that could all be completely wrong!

[Harry Genshaw]

That's true re Dan. I noticed it particularly on Saturday but again last night, he doesn't look like a player who's trying too hard or chasing lost causes, which is what I'd expect from someone trying to force their way into contention.

The movement from the midfield in the 1st half was great to see and Dan played his part there, dropping deep and leaving holes behind for others to exploit. Morley looks so much happier in front of the back 4 (Is that a no6 in today's parlance?) than he does further up the pitch but when he did push up in the 2nd half he took his goal really well.

[Worthy4England]

Does JDB just look rusty, or are we thinking he might be perma-crocked?

Rusty, but there was for me a worrying thought that whilst he was never quick, he looked incredibly slow last night. And we’ve all seen it injuries at that sort of age just taking a fraction off a players speed that they never get back. Some adapt. But I think in an Evatt team it’s hard to imagine how given how we demand the strikers play. It’s why for me Jerome is a bust. He’d be fine if we were just playing into him. But the way we play he’s just not suitable for anymore.

I’m a massive fan of JDB so it’s not easy to say but I did last night worry that he might have just reached that point where age and injuries catch up with him. I hope not - I really like him as a player.

I found it tricky to judge whether it was just rusty tbf on DadBod. At times, first half, I forgot he was playing (which could be more to do with me than him ) and I sort of expect him tussling and showing for the ball. He had little or no presence, for me...It didn't look like a fraction off pace...

[Worthy4England]

That's true re Dan. I noticed it particularly on Saturday but again last night, he doesn't look like a player who's trying too hard or chasing lost causes, which is what I'd expect from someone trying to force their way into contention.

The movement from the midfield in the 1st half was great to see and Dan played his part there, dropping deep and leaving holes behind for others to exploit. Morley looks so much happier in front of the back 4 (Is that a no6 in today's parlance?) than he does further up the pitch but when he did push up in the 2nd half he took his goal really well.

To this point, I don't think the bench/periphery contingent gave Evatt any huge conundrums to solve as a generality...

[The_Gun]

That's true re Dan. I noticed it particularly on Saturday but again last night, he doesn't look like a player who's trying too hard or chasing lost causes, which is what I'd expect from someone trying to force their way into contention.

The movement from the midfield in the 1st half was great to see and Dan played his part there, dropping deep and leaving holes behind for others to exploit. Morley looks so much happier in front of the back 4 (Is that a no6 in today's parlance?) than he does further up the pitch but when he did push up in the 2nd half he took his goal really well.

To this point, I don't think the bench/periphery contingent gave Evatt any huge conundrums to solve as a generality...

Not Maghoma or CMG?

[Harry Genshaw]

That's true re Dan. I noticed it particularly on Saturday but again last night, he doesn't look like a player who's trying too hard or chasing lost causes, which is what I'd expect from someone trying to force their way into contention.

The movement from the midfield in the 1st half was great to see and Dan played his part there, dropping deep and leaving holes behind for others to exploit. Morley looks so much happier in front of the back 4 (Is that a no6 in today's parlance?) than he does further up the pitch but when he did push up in the 2nd half he took his goal really well.

To this point, I don't think the bench/periphery contingent gave Evatt any huge conundrums to solve as a generality...

Up top definitely but It'll be hard to keep last nights midfield trio happy if they don't get regular starts. Maghome particularly on his performance. A nice problem for a manager to have.

I(a)n Evatt we trust still

[BWFC_Insane]

That's true re Dan. I noticed it particularly on Saturday but again last night, he doesn't look like a player who's trying too hard or chasing lost causes, which is what I'd expect from someone trying to force their way into contention.

The movement from the midfield in the 1st half was great to see and Dan played his part there, dropping deep and leaving holes behind for others to exploit. Morley looks so much happier in front of the back 4 (Is that a no6 in today's parlance?) than he does further up the pitch but when he did push up in the 2nd half he took his goal really well.

To this point, I don't think the bench/periphery contingent gave Evatt any huge conundrums to solve as a generality...

Up top definitely but It'll be hard to keep last nights midfield trio happy if they don't get regular starts. Maghome particularly on his performance. A nice problem for a manager to have.

I(a)n Evatt we trust still

I’d say CMG more than Maghoma. Maghoma is potentially a very top player but still learning. CMG first half looked a class above anything else on that pitch. The problem is how we get him in - if it’s that number 10 role I don’t see how Morley or Sheehan also play.

Maghoma I think will still get games and just be introduced more gradually. However he’s got a seriously high ceiling. It’s a shame it’s only a loan.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

It's mixed.

I think all three midfield Ms will have given Evatt hope that they can be useful in certain situations. Namely, mostly, against low blocks - where Maghoma's gliding, CMG's dribbling and Morley's passing may unlock some stubborn oppos.

Up front, the back-ups are miles off. Out wide, the backups barely exist (although Matheson did well for himself and Ashworth will be a touch annoyed he missed a chance to start). In defence, Forrester impressed again); his is looking like the kind of signing we didn't strictly "need", but which might come very good for us in time.

Can't see them agreeing to that contact with that clause in the summer and already be worrying about him triggering it. Particularly given how uninspiring the other two have been, I think you're quite happy for Dad to put his hand up and play his way into another year.

It might be a small factor in them not throwing him on for 5 mins though, and "wasting" an appearance.

Aye, mebbes. I just think MJ triggering the clause in a dead game at Bristol might have worried them a little. Although as it turned out, that meant we got a fee...

Morley looks so much happier in front of the back 4 (Is that a no6 in today's parlance?)

Correct, you are now officially a hispter and can thus wear a hipster's badge. If badges are cool this week. I'd have to check with people in Shoreditch.

[Worthy4England]

That's true re Dan. I noticed it particularly on Saturday but again last night, he doesn't look like a player who's trying too hard or chasing lost causes, which is what I'd expect from someone trying to force their way into contention.

The movement from the midfield in the 1st half was great to see and Dan played his part there, dropping deep and leaving holes behind for others to exploit. Morley looks so much happier in front of the back 4 (Is that a no6 in today's parlance?) than he does further up the pitch but when he did push up in the 2nd half he took his goal really well.

To this point, I don't think the bench/periphery contingent gave Evatt any huge conundrums to solve as a generality...

Not Maghoma or CMG?

Probably not as clear as I might have been. I had both well within a starting contingent. In MF, Demps; Morley, Sheehan, Tomo, Maghoma, CMG you could see taking a starting spot, but maybe continuing to integrate Maghoma and CMG off the bench a little while longer...

[Prufrock]

Morley looks so much happier in front of the back 4 (Is that a no6 in today's parlance?)

Correct, you are now officially a hispter and can thus wear a hipster's badge. If badges are cool this week. I'd have to check with people in Shoreditch.

Depends how you invert your pyramid . 6 here would traditionally be a centre back (in Brazil they'd be a left back) but it seems Pep and his euro contingent have won that one.

I remain a metric martyr calling them a 4!

[Prufrock]

I'm also not convinced it's a lack of effort from Dan, rather a lack of gorm.

Didn't see the first half yesterday but he was criticised for that on Saturday I thought unfairly. He's quite languid so it might look like he's not trying, but he did a lot of running on sat, just of the headless chicken type. After he'd gormlessly given it away from that free kick he charged back to cover at LB, and after he'd gormlessly drifted inside and given their centre back an out down the right he charged back ineffectively to try to but some, all too late, pressure on.

He had a year left on a cushy Prem (when he signed it) academy deal. I don't think hunger is the issue, not physicality, not technique. He just doesn't seem to know what he's doing, full stop. That would be bad enough in a "hit the channels and find runners team". It's a big worry in team made of complicated moving parts.

[jmjhb]

It's not like he's a fresh-faced youngster either
He's 24 and between a third and halfway through a usual footballer's career.

[Worthy4England]

I'm also not convinced it's a lack of effort from Dan, rather a lack of gorm.

Didn't see the first half yesterday but he was criticised for that on Saturday I thought unfairly. He's quite languid so it might look like he's not trying, but he did a lot of running on sat, just of the headless chicken type. After he'd gormlessly given it away from that free kick he charged back to cover at LB, and after he'd gormlessly drifted inside and given their centre back an out down the right he charged back ineffectively to try to but some, all too late, pressure on.

He had a year left on a cushy Prem (when he signed it) academy deal. I don't think hunger is the issue, not physicality, not technique. He just doesn't seem to know what he's doing, full stop. That would be bad enough in a "hit the channels and find runners team". It's a big worry in team made of complicated moving parts.

I think it's part that. But I fear (and I'll talk for me as opposed for anyone else), I'm just not seeing enough in there at age 24, to constitute a L1 grown-up, footballer. He might progress, late, under the tutilage of the coaching staff, but whilst I might look at him play and say "he did that [thing] nicely," when you put it all together over the time he was on the pitch, you feel like you're a man short. I have no particular axe to grind and wish the fella well, but he needs a "step-up" improvement for me just to be considered, rather than an incremental one...If I didn't know his background, I'd probably guess at a 19 year old B Teamer trying to step up and not being ready yet.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

If we'd got him on a free, he'd be an interesting project. Having paid for him, he's currently a loss and one we need to rectify. That would be less of a problem if Victor was scoring every week, a revivified JDB was terrifying defenders for the last 20 and Jerome offered an aerial option when needed. But right now none of those things are happening.

[officer_dibble]

Agree with Pru - he lacks a football brain. I noticed he took a bollocking from the bench during a break in play first half and straight away showed up in the right area for a pass. Then presumably forgot again! We’ve signed him thinking we can teach him but he’s too old at 24 to come on enough.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm also not convinced it's a lack of effort from Dan, rather a lack of gorm.

Didn't see the first half yesterday but he was criticised for that on Saturday I thought unfairly. He's quite languid so it might look like he's not trying, but he did a lot of running on sat, just of the headless chicken type. After he'd gormlessly given it away from that free kick he charged back to cover at LB, and after he'd gormlessly drifted inside and given their centre back an out down the right he charged back ineffectively to try to but some, all too late, pressure on.

He had a year left on a cushy Prem (when he signed it) academy deal. I don't think hunger is the issue, not physicality, not technique. He just doesn't seem to know what he's doing, full stop. That would be bad enough in a "hit the channels and find runners team". It's a big worry in team made of complicated moving parts.

There is a big difference between ‘effort’ and the genuine desire which is not really controllable by the individual inside you to do well. I just don’t see it with him.I think it’s the problem of being 24 out of premiership academies probably by many standards financially set up for life.

It’s a credit to him that he went to Cheltenham and came here and that suggests that at least at surface level he wants to succeed in the game. But there is more to it than that. You need to really want it. He has to basically go on the same learning curve a talented 16 year old would - he’s that far behind compared to his age. I suspect to make it from where he is, requires more than hard work but so much of it that you sacrifice almost everything else.

You look at some players and even if you might question whether they’ve got the ability or ever will you can see how much they want it, Thomason is a good example. It’s clear that lad will end up the best he possibly ever could be because he will graft minute to minute to get to the best he can. With Dan I don’t see it.

Maybe it’s as you say less about the burning hunger and desire and more about knowing what to do. But there were loads of occasions last night where a wet eared but willing league two striker would have barrelled into challenges yet he pulled out. Where they would have chased themselves into the ground regardless yet he often was a bit half hearted in doing so…ran plenty, can’t claim he was lazy…but he’d get within 6 yards of the player and then not do the last bit and give them an easy out. The whole thing feels like it’s not with commitment. Perhaps that is confidence. Perhaps it’s thinking he’s better than this. Perhaps it’s genuinely not knowing what to do at any point on a football field…..I really can’t tell.

[Prufrock]

I think that's all fair enough and certainly a possibility. I just don't really buy "body language" as a thing you can reliably read.

Could be he doesn't have it in him (the doing the running but then not actually putting on the final pressure certainly rings true, but I think that's coachable rather than innate) but could also be confidence or learning the role.

He seems to me like one who it will either click for or not. Think there could be a fair bit of time where he looks useless and then (maybe) a steep rise where it comes together. Whether he is actually capable of doing it (or whether we can afford him the time) is very much an unknown.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

ISTR a fair few questioning Dapo's body language. Perhaps it's the new phrenology. or something.