Wycombe and we go: Away vs Wycombe (Tues 24th October 19:45)

[Harry Genshaw]

2 big decisions this summer were whether to extend JDBs contract and whether to make Dan's move permanent. I think Evatts stuck when he should have twist (or vice versa). I'd be happy to see them both go in January but I fear they'll be a financial millstone around our necks. At least until summer in JDBs case and probably well beyond in Dan's.

[BWFC_Insane]

So probably they'll put the work in for this game like for example Port Vale away.

I'd fault some of our lot for bad decisions, poor execution etc but they always work hard. Port Vale looked no different than Reading or Saturday to me. We didn't take enough of our chances when they came our way in the first half which meant we were riding our luck in the 2nd, particularly when we take Charles off. We got away with it at Vale, a little bit on Saturday and came a cropper at Reading.

Not for me. Not at the intensity required throughout the team. Charles always works hard. As does Vic but I went through the rest of the team second half and compared to the first and its far more than just playing well. They stop making the runs, closing down as quickly, doing the hard work on and off the ball to make spaces and create patterns. The press stops (its two strikers no longer backed up by the rest) and we are far less proactive on the ball. They start just shovelling it sideways and failing that lumping it long. The intensity and effort simply wasn't there for that second half IMO. In terms of Port Vale whilst we ended up defending our box for the second period and just lumping it ineffectually I never was sitting there thinking 'we aren't trying' as there was massive intensity in keeping that game 1-0 if we could. That for me was not the case Saturday and the crowd could feel it. Probably exemplified by the keeper going short to Santos and Santos just passing it straight to their player for a free shot at goal (and thank god they were dreadful cos that was an awful miss).

I think hard work is interpreted differently but for me I simply mean playing like you mean it. Full hearted whether that is defending your box or attacking the opponents. Port Vale you could visibly see, feel and tell they were putting every little bit on the line to get a result.

Saturday you could feel the drop off in intensity - desire - it was so apparent at least to me.

[Prufrock]

The intensity does seem to be a theme. I'm not sure it's effort. The shape we play asks a lot of them to press how we do, and I just don't think they have it in them to do it for 90. Midfield options coming back should help.

But it's the wing backs a lot of the time. First half Randy and JDC are flying out to close their full backs down. Then in the second it's just the front two running sideways like blue arsed flies. It's especially so when we're winning. It only needs one person to think "hold what we have" and it all breaks down.

[Worthy4England]

Thought I'd have a quick peek by 15 minute intervals around what we were doing during the course of a game. I think we were all in a similar place that "we drop off" later in the game - it's sorta interesting (maybe) by "how much"..."Stuff courtesy of "Whoscored""

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[BWFC_Insane]

The intensity does seem to be a theme. I'm not sure it's effort. The shape we play asks a lot of them to press how we do, and I just don't think they have it in them to do it for 90. Midfield options coming back should help.

But it's the wing backs a lot of the time. First half Randy and JDC are flying out to close their full backs down. Then in the second it's just the front two running sideways like blue arsed flies. It's especially so when we're winning. It only needs one person to think "hold what we have" and it all breaks down.

I’d say if you watch their goal and look how little effort we put in across the whole move to do anything to stop it and how much time and space we afforded them it’s impossible to suggest we are playing with the sort of intensity and effort that would even scrape the barest of minimums.

There are tons of examples from the second half. Tons.

You can name players who just stop doing the hard work and running the hard yards. It’s happening regularly. I don’t think it’s fitness entirely. Some of it has to be mentality, they need a few rockets. I fear they may be too comfortable in some cases.

[The_Gun]

I couldn’t watch the match on Saturday, but everyone seems to agree that we physically dropped off in the second half.

I know you go to the home games, Insano, so your opinions are undoubtedly informed, but I don’t get why you think the same players would sometimes try hard and sometimes not. Especially when we’re talking about significant discrepancies in the same game - is that not more likely to indicate fitness issues?

[dave the minion]

Sadly though - most football stadia tend to be filled with the great unwashed underbelly of society. It's not nice to say I know, but when I weigh up the amount of sheer stupidity I hear on a match day compared to reasoned content, there is a clear winner.
What most of the stadium therefore demands is a long long way from what should actually happen in a lot of cases.

[Worthy4England]

Sadly though - most football stadia tend to be filled with the great unwashed underbelly of society. It's not nice to say I know, but when I weigh up the amount of sheer stupidity I hear on a match day compared to reasoned content, there is a clear winner.
What most of the stadium therefore demands is a long long way from what should actually happen in a lot of cases.

Notwithstanding, the conflicting instructions like "punt it up the middle" and "get it out to the wingers" often at the same time.

And the old favourite "everyone says" - how many people do you hear on a matchday? 40? 50? out of 22,000? Maybe you've been really diligent and canvassed a couple of hundred on the side, so you're still a long way shy of 1%....

That said, the receptions for JDB/Dan were noticeably different on Saturday even to casual observers...

[DJBlu]

Peterborough 5 nil style incoming.

COYWM.

[Worthy4England]

Peterborough 5 nil style incoming.

COYWM.

That's set my mind at rest.

[BWFC_Insane]

I couldn’t watch the match on Saturday, but everyone seems to agree that we physically dropped off in the second half.

I know you go to the home games, Insano, so your opinions are undoubtedly informed, but I don’t get why you think the same players would sometimes try hard and sometimes not. Especially when we’re talking about significant discrepancies in the same game - is that not more likely to indicate fitness issues?

If we are that unfit then it indicates massive issues.

But for me it’s not like they just decide they can’t be bothered. It’s a lack of drive in the side. When they maybe aren’t as mentally focussed as could be. When they dip a bit they can’t as a team just do the professional things required and we get more lazy and more sloppy as it goes.

Lack of leaders, drive and standards. When you look at Bradley or Trafford they didn’t just drop their standards even if not playing well they were always intense in their performance.

Charles is that. Dempsey is that. Jones is that. After that it’s a team that for me isn’t very driven. When things get tough they often struggle and when they have those dips they simply dip a long long way.

You put someone into that side with real leadership and drive and who would not let standards drop and no way as a team to do watch Northampton play round us to score the easiest goal they ever will get on Saturday.

[BorsdaneWhite]

It is noticeable how much worse the subs make us look. I think we really miss Sexy Keiran’s nous, his clever pressing, and his ball retention. He always got us up the park late in the game.

What more can be said about the strikers, I know, but it’s often a double substitution of a tired, but reasonably effective pair, for two who don’t look like they know how to play together, and for whom the team appears like they don’t know how to provide. Just introduces a huge fracture between midfield and the attackers.

[The_Gun]

Good point regarding Lee. I think most of us thought it was the right decision to not offer him a new contract, but with hindsight, even if he could only play one game a week it's hard to see that he wouldn't have had a positive impact this season. Hopefully Maghoma and CMG coming back will help fill the sexy void.

[Worthy4England]

Good point regarding Lee. I think most of us thought it was the right decision to not offer him a new contract, but with hindsight, even if he could only play one game a week it's hard to see that he wouldn't have had a positive impact this season. Hopefully Maghoma and CMG coming back will help fill the sexy void.

They're gonna need to, because it looks like that was part of the cunning plan, probably with CMG more than Maghoma (who I think I have in the "new MJ" bucket)...

[BWFC_Insane]

Good point regarding Lee. I think most of us thought it was the right decision to not offer him a new contract, but with hindsight, even if he could only play one game a week it's hard to see that he wouldn't have had a positive impact this season. Hopefully Maghoma and CMG coming back will help fill the sexy void.

They're gonna need to, because it looks like that was part of the cunning plan, probably with CMG more than Maghoma (who I think I have in the "new MJ" bucket)...

Maghoma is a silky attacking player who looks like he doesn’t know what the word tackle means. To me he’s very very far from an MJ.

[Worthy4England]

Good point regarding Lee. I think most of us thought it was the right decision to not offer him a new contract, but with hindsight, even if he could only play one game a week it's hard to see that he wouldn't have had a positive impact this season. Hopefully Maghoma and CMG coming back will help fill the sexy void.

They're gonna need to, because it looks like that was part of the cunning plan, probably with CMG more than Maghoma (who I think I have in the "new MJ" bucket)...

Maghoma is a silky attacking player who looks like he doesn’t know what the word tackle means. To me he’s very very far from an MJ.

Sorry should maybe have said, I reckon they had him roughly in the MJ bucket....clearly that's not really a CMG job, so he's sorta the only other candidate, unless they though Ashworth/Forrester might fit the bill...

[BWFC_Insane]

Good point regarding Lee. I think most of us thought it was the right decision to not offer him a new contract, but with hindsight, even if he could only play one game a week it's hard to see that he wouldn't have had a positive impact this season. Hopefully Maghoma and CMG coming back will help fill the sexy void.

They're gonna need to, because it looks like that was part of the cunning plan, probably with CMG more than Maghoma (who I think I have in the "new MJ" bucket)...

Maghoma is a silky attacking player who looks like he doesn’t know what the word tackle means. To me he’s very very far from an MJ.

Sorry should maybe have said, I reckon they had him roughly in the MJ bucket....clearly that's not really a CMG job, so he's sorta the only other candidate, unless they though Ashworth/Forrester might fit the bill...

Ah I see. Well yes, probably.

[officer_dibble]

Good point regarding Lee. I think most of us thought it was the right decision to not offer him a new contract, but with hindsight, even if he could only play one game a week it's hard to see that he wouldn't have had a positive impact this season. Hopefully Maghoma and CMG coming back will help fill the sexy void.

I think Lee has retired hasn’t he? And if our medical department passed JDB fit and not Keiran, he must have been knackered!

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Thought I'd have a quick peek by 15 minute intervals around what we were doing during the course of a game. I think we were all in a similar place that "we drop off" later in the game - it's sorta interesting (maybe) by "how much"...

Interesting stuff. Quite the increase in clearances

We are generally better than we were a couple of seasons ago at seeing things out - but that 61-75 dip is a worry.

[TANGODANCER]

Apropos of not much. In my current re-read, the villain in Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice" is called Wickham. He doesn't win in the end. Hope this this a positive. Just thought I'd mention it..