We Must Beat-a-borough - Away v Peterborough, Sat Apr 27th 12:30

[BWFC_Insane]

Thomason hasn’t been playing well but still is far more effective than Dempsey has been. So I’m not sure on the logic there. Dempsey becomes invisible too often.

He’s not been far more effective than Dempsey recently. I don’t think you’d have many of our fans in your corner for this one.

Dempsey scored a header yesterday then completely disappeared from view. He’s not going to make the interceptions or win the ball back or offer the midfield running we need. I’m not convinced on current form George does either but I’m far from sold on Dempsey, Sheehan and Maghoma. That has lightweight get dominated writ all over it. If we were setup to be deeper and play on the counter I could go with that maybe. But if it’s a midfield clash that screams problems to me.

[Worthy4England]

Maybe not one of GTs better games, apart from him being a big chunk of why we were on top first 20 and why their MF was so ineffective early doors. He also put both passes through that led to our first 2 goals...other than that, I'd be a bit surprised if Evatt veered off from his usual starting trio.

[TANGODANCER]

Just expressing a view as we are here to do:

There's still a massive slice of divine right in our supporting attitudes. Every team wants to be better, it's human nature, but not a single game is a carved in stone certainty, not one. How must the Blackpool fans feel today, indeed any town where hope died in the hands of chance yesterday? Bolton are, and have proved to be a quality side capable on our day of beating the best, but we're not unique. No one is.

The biggest single factor in gambling is uncertainty. It's why it exists and bookmakers are almost always the winners. Can you name a single sport where the result is absolutely guaranteed ? Indeed, if you could, what would be the point of it? The biggest factor is a combination of circumstances and human nature. A favourite game in life is blame; it's the ultimate get-out. When things don't go to plan, honesty rarely wins over finding excuses. The only thing that you can take for granted in the promotion race, is that somebody will be disappointed.

Leave talk of "bottling" to Heineken and co and just give it our best shot is the only answer. As it stands, we're still very much alive and kicking. As ever, Que Sera, Sera.

[Worthy4England]

I don't find "the gambling" logic very compelling. There's a very good reason why Bookies have favourites which is absolutely aligned with their ability to win v punter (or at least lay-off)

There are two teams, sure, but it's not typically two even sets of competitors. You would expect more often than not that Bolton beat the 24th in the Division, most of the time, but to your point there are uncertainties and on this occasion we didn't.

But that in isolation doesn't determine the entire outcome of a League which is a longer race and what you hope for as a fan (well I do, anyhow ) is what we got right and wrong in a 1-3 home result to minimise it reoccurring.

A few of us thought we might be third, when guessing pre-season and again in Jan. Why? Because the harder fixtures were back-loaded and we hadn't had our "well off the boil" month that in previous seasons, occurred in Oct/Nov..

Similarly, I'm not convinced in the "fine margins" explanation. Of course it's fine margins, but you can typically play that in between two league places anywhere up and down the League.

At times, we've been unlucky for sure. Evatt's not the one the playing side of the whitewash. But it sort of removes the need for a Manager, if they're not responsible for anything. This is his squad with his players. His job, for me involves much more than just teaching how to put the ball in the onion and keep control of possession (which we didn't manage yesterday). He's also responsible for game management, the defensive side of Plan A and making sure we don't utterly capitulate against the likes of Blackpool and Wigan coz we're having an off day by ensuring we go out with the right mental attitude.

Most gave him leeway for missing out last year which I was in agreement with. I suspect he'll get the same leeway this year, should we not make it (fervently hoping we do). But being at the top isn't about divine rights, just about being better than 22 of the remainder. I doubt, if the same occurred next year, in what we think may be a tougher division, he'd get further leeway.

Here's to going up, this season! COYWM.

[Worthy4England]

The ‘general on the pitch’ thing I feel is a bit overstated. Iredale also seems to be a vocal leader who battles as hard as anyone.

I think there are many ways to be "general on the pitch" which don't necessarily point to over the top tackles and shouting/pointing.. If you think about Kante or Modric at their best, they just give the lift by example.

Looking at the pre-kick-off huddle, GT was geeing them all up...

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

The ‘general on the pitch’ thing I feel is a bit overstated. Iredale also seems to be a vocal leader who battles as hard as anyone.

I think there are many ways to be "general on the pitch" which don't necessarily point to over the top tackles and shouting/pointing.. If you think about Kante or Modric at their best, they just give the lift by example.

Looking at the pre-kick-off huddle, GT was geeing them all up...

Aye. When I asked him about captains, Allardyce said there were two types: those who shout and those who show. At the time Beckham was England captain and Sam had no problem with that, because Beckham led by example; it's easy now to only think of the hairstyles and the fame, but that man worked bloody hard to maximise his talent and improve his play. Sam also admired a Tony Adams or John Terry who would roar and shout and never let players' standards drop, but he didn't ignore the quieter inspiration.

That's all theory and chat but Sam's choice of captains back it up. Gudni wasn't one to scream and rant - and he handed the armband to JayJay. You can have high standards without high drama.

But yeah, you can also lead without the armband - and Thomo did the teamtalk before some or other big game (Pompey?). You can also have leaders all over the pitch - Toddy's record-breakers were famously chock-full of potential armband wearers (Bergsson, Fairclough, Taggart, Phillips, Frandsen, Pollock, Sheridan, McGinlay).

I can't speak for Dibs who also used the term "general on the pitch" but in my mind, it isn't just about shouting. It's about reading the game tactically, spotting problems, spotting possibilities, making suggestions, making decisions, knowing that your manager trusts your judgement (and is right to do so). Like Rico (and Thomo), Gethin has been at Evatt's side since the beginning - and Gethin has more positional flexibility, so I get the feeling he "gets" the theory as well as anyone in the squad. Whether that's enough to pick him over subjectively 'better' players is another thing – he's spent time on the bench, and not just through injuries – but I'd be surprised if Evatt dropped him with only two or (hopefully) three games to go.

[The_Gun]

The ‘general on the pitch’ thing I feel is a bit overstated. Iredale also seems to be a vocal leader who battles as hard as anyone.

I think there are many ways to be "general on the pitch" which don't necessarily point to over the top tackles and shouting/pointing.. If you think about Kante or Modric at their best, they just give the lift by example.

Looking at the pre-kick-off huddle, GT was geeing them all up...

I agree, and Santos would be a prime example of someone who leads through his performances.

My point is that I’m not confident that whatever leadership Jones brings to the table is compensating for him being a fairly mediocre player. Not just that, but playing him is also causing Evatt to play three right footers at the back, which is suboptimal for balance.

[Bertie Wooster]

My point is that I’m not confident that whatever leadership Jones brings to the table is compensating for him being a fairly mediocre player. Not just that, but playing him is also causing Evatt to play three right footers at the back, which is suboptimal for balance.

This 100%.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

I think what many want is someone that pulls the rest of the team up when things are not working or going south. Think Beckham v Greece or Gerrard in Istanbul. I think we've seen glimpses of that with the likes of Thomason, but our 'calm' style of play I don't think lends itself to a bit of blood and thunder. Everything is based on the mechanics of triggers setting off movement and behaviours. Do what we're supposed to do better doesn't really allow for a player to arbitrarily decide we're going to change things up. Maybe the answer is Evatt giving the players a little more license whilst making sure basic positions are still maintained.

[DJBlu]

Bookies have us as favourites for the playoffs, understandable given our position but we're doooooooooooomed.

[Worthy4England]

The ‘general on the pitch’ thing I feel is a bit overstated. Iredale also seems to be a vocal leader who battles as hard as anyone.

I think there are many ways to be "general on the pitch" which don't necessarily point to over the top tackles and shouting/pointing.. If you think about Kante or Modric at their best, they just give the lift by example.

Looking at the pre-kick-off huddle, GT was geeing them all up...

I agree, and Santos would be a prime example of someone who leads through his performances.

My point is that I’m not confident that whatever leadership Jones brings to the table is compensating for him being a fairly mediocre player. Not just that, but playing him is also causing Evatt to play three right footers at the back, which is suboptimal for balance.

Ahh. Hadn't made the connection back to Geth. As much as I think he's a well respected member of the squad, a CB he ain't.

[officer_dibble]

Bookies have us as favourites for the playoffs, understandable given our position but we're doooooooooooomed.

I think we are the first title pick not the top twenty had wrong for a few years in league one as well…

First step, decent result Friday. Draw is fine!

[Worthy4England]

The ‘general on the pitch’ thing I feel is a bit overstated. Iredale also seems to be a vocal leader who battles as hard as anyone.

I think there are many ways to be "general on the pitch" which don't necessarily point to over the top tackles and shouting/pointing.. If you think about Kante or Modric at their best, they just give the lift by example.

Looking at the pre-kick-off huddle, GT was geeing them all up...

Aye. When I asked him about captains, Allardyce said there were two types: those who shout and those who show. At the time Beckham was England captain and Sam had no problem with that, because Beckham led by example; it's easy now to only think of the hairstyles and the fame, but that man worked bloody hard to maximise his talent and improve his play. Sam also admired a Tony Adams or John Terry who would roar and shout and never let players' standards drop, but he didn't ignore the quieter inspiration.

That's all theory and chat but Sam's choice of captains back it up. Gudni wasn't one to scream and rant - and he handed the armband to JayJay. You can have high standards without high drama.

But yeah, you can also lead without the armband - and Thomo did the teamtalk before some or other big game (Pompey?). You can also have leaders all over the pitch - Toddy's record-breakers were famously chock-full of potential armband wearers (Bergsson, Fairclough, Taggart, Phillips, Frandsen, Pollock, Sheridan, McGinlay).

I can't speak for Dibs who also used the term "general on the pitch" but in my mind, it isn't just about shouting. It's about reading the game tactically, spotting problems, spotting possibilities, making suggestions, making decisions, knowing that your manager trusts your judgement (and is right to do so). Like Rico (and Thomo), Gethin has been at Evatt's side since the beginning - and Gethin has more positional flexibility, so I get the feeling he "gets" the theory as well as anyone in the squad. Whether that's enough to pick him over subjectively 'better' players is another thing – he's spent time on the bench, and not just through injuries – but I'd be surprised if Evatt dropped him with only two or (hopefully) three games to go.

Yeah, mate. For me, yesterday, it felt pretty obvious from minute 46 that they'd been motivated to not slip quietly into the night. Whether that was by hair drier or arm round the shoulder, who knows. At that point, is where I have my doubts about our game management. Not likely to be hugely dramatic mid-game, it was pretty clear where the momentum was and I'm not at all sure we did much to counter it, other than maybe hope plan A came back.

We shipped 1, then removed our best tackling midfielder (I think at that point Derby had just bagged their second), but we pretty rapidly shipped two more and all that time I was looking at whether we'd done anything maybe positionally to counter. If we did, I didn't spot it.

Kudos that we pulled it back, with the Jerome we've been hoping for, for 17 months and part of me says a point away to our nearest rivals you'd usually consider "decent" but from 2-0 up, it still feels like poor game management.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

Bookies have us as favourites for the playoffs, understandable given our position but we're doooooooooooomed.

Must be time for me to point out the usual two or three things. Bookies aren't daft – untainted by blind faith or hysterical superstition, they're not wrong that we're well-equipped to be Quite Good. Somewhat on the other side, odds aren't a pure representation of probability: sides that are popular are usually heavily backed and thus given shorter (safer) odds, which is why at every tournament England have been priced similarly to subjectively better teams. In short: You'll never see a bookie on a bike.

https://www.oddschecker.com/football/en ... /promotion

Interesting that they have Barnsley as far out as 5/1 (and no further in than 7/2). Oxford generally agreed at an also-fairly-distant 4/1, then a jump to Posh somewhere around 2/1 and us at 13/8.

[Dave Sutton's barnet]

For me, yesterday, it felt pretty obvious from minute 46 that they'd been motivated to not slip quietly into the night. Whether that was by hair drier or arm round the shoulder, who knows. At that point, is where I have my doubts about our game management. Not likely to be hugely dramatic mid-game, it was pretty clear where the momentum was and I'm not at all sure we did much to counter it, other than maybe hope plan A came back.

We shipped 1, then removed our best tackling midfielder (I think at that point Derby had just bagged their second), but we pretty rapidly shipped two more and all that time I was looking at whether we'd done anything maybe positionally to counter. If we did, I didn't spot it.

Kudos that we pulled it back, with the Jerome we've been hoping for, for 17 months and part of me says a point away to our nearest rivals you'd usually consider "decent" but from 2-0 up, it still feels like poor game management.

Yesterday started weird and got weirder. We blew them away early on - could not unreasonably have been 4-0 up - and then they successfully grabbed the momentum start from the break onwards, especially as the Derby news solidified. And then, having done the hard work, they let us score the kind of equaliser that would have our fans bellowing. So both teams left the field somewhat disappointed after a game that was always likely to be a phony war, and ended up being somewhat akin to a pre-season friendly.

I didn't mind subbing GT after his yellow, as the second ref was clearly revelling in his elevation from bit-parter to central role. Had George stayed on, got a second yellow (for owt or nowt) and been banned for Barnsley - now that would have been bad management both in-game and (much) bigger picture. Plenty on here were calling for multiple subs at half-time or early in the second, and I wasn't completely against the idea - except that momentum, like trust, is easy to lose and hard to regain.

[BWFC_Insane]

Marc Iles…whilst I agree…surely this is just motivation for Barnsley?

If Wanderers cannot muster a two-legged win against a side in that sort of form then criticism that has drifted around over the past few weeks is warranted.

[DJBlu]

Marc Iles…whilst I agree…surely this is just motivation for Barnsley?

If Wanderers cannot muster a two-legged win against a side in that sort of form then criticism that has drifted around over the past few weeks is warranted.

Truth hurts, hardly motivating for Barnsley. I'd say it puts unnecessary pressure on the team as they know what it means.

[The_Gun]

With all due respect, I’m certain that neither set of players will give a feck what Marc Iles writes.

[Bertie Wooster]

With all due respect, I’m certain that neither set of players will give a feck what Marc Iles writes.

On this occasion though Iles is correct.

[BWFC_Insane]

With all due respect, I’m certain that neither set of players will give a feck what Marc Iles writes.

Allardyce would have this stuff pinned up in the dressing room all week.