Brexit or Britin

[thebish]

The way to a jam filled tomorrow most cetainly isn't via lots of hand wringing, doom, or gloom.

I guess in any aspect of life, being negative is just the default, lazy option.

Possibly.

nahhh - that's just being a Wanderers fan!

[boltonboris]

Europe are demanding €13bn of backpaid taxes in Ireland from Apple Inc, due to Ireland offering them a much lower tax deal than most other companies (which Europe don't agree with). Eu have said it's "illegal practice"

Apple Inc are saying feck off (probably) and Ireland aren't too happy about saying that preferential tax deals make external trade with Ireland more attractive and coupled with jobs, aids their economy. Europe aren't listening anyway and Apple are now making threats about their 'involvement' with EU countries.

Somebody will come out of this with a bloody nose and I reckon it'll be the European Commission. Enforcing laws upon the Irish with disregard for their wishes.

90% of Apple's profits are channeled through Ireland and this could seriously, seriously harm their profitability, not to mention their relationship with Ireland and the EU

Personally, I'm torn. Can see both sides of the argument

[Bruce Rioja]

Interesting that, Boz. Many blue chip organisations (such as say Kelloggs) have moved admin offices to Dublin purely to take advantage of the preferential tax practices.

I think it's fair to say that this one's going to run.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Yeah but some of the tax rates they've been paying have been like 0.0005% when most other mugs in Ireland have to pay 12%. The EU are bang on with this, though they should be penalising as well as demanding the tax owed be paid.

[Lord Kangana]

Apple based themselves in Ireland to have access to the single market. They wouldn't have been within a billion miles of Ireland if it didn't give them access to the single market. The single market has rules. They didn't follow them. Luxembourg are in the same pickle ISTR.

Anyway, the subsidiary company in Irealnd will just fold without paying a penny.

[Hoboh]

Bet they don't show up in Paris anytime soon.

[CrazyHorse]

Apple's Irish tax bill is the equivalent of £50 paid for every million quid of profit.

Seems perfectly fair to me.

[bobo the clown]

It's been a scam the Irish have pulled for almost 20 years. That, plus the English language and a barely credible belief by the US population that they are all Irish really, are the reason the US Companies like Apple, Intel, Microsoft etc., etc. have based themselves there.

BUT it's been well tested and, as the Irish finance minister said last night, it falls within their legal remit to decide on Corporation Tax rates.

It may be shouldn't be, but it is.

It's exactly the same reason Luxembourg exists ffs.

... if it was legal but the EU want to stop that being so it'll need to change its laws. I'm not sure they can do this retrospectively. And at a time when the institution is a bit dishevelled following Brexit more or the old shite isn't really what the EU needs to be evidencing I wouldn't have thought.

Still, its up to them how they chose to strangle themselves.

[Lord Kangana]

It's legal to set your own tax rates. You can set them at zero if you wish. It's illegal to give preferential tax rates that amount to a subsidy and are unavailable to all. The EU have been very clear on both these points.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Minor nitpick (and it might well be wrong) but I thought it was 13% corporation tax in Ireland?

They said 12% on the telly here, but they could easily have it wrong. Either way...

[bobo the clown]

It's legal to set your own tax rates. You can set them at zero if you wish. It's illegal to give preferential tax rates that amount to a subsidy and are unavailable to all. The EU have been very clear on both these points.

Not clear enough to prevent Ireland, and others, to have been doing this for decades.

It's a poor law which allows numbers to be used, but then leaves something as floppy as "preferential" to determine their appropriateness.

Anyone can argue that any difference become preferential. Unless there is one rate,.across the whole of the EU. (Which, of course, is what the Euro is about and another reason it can't really succeed in the long term).

Hey, I agree that the Irish have taken the piss for a very long time. But it was hardly invisible or unknown. It's been challenged before and they've won. AND they aren't the only ones.

I can't see how a change in interpretation can be made retrospectively. But this is the European Commission. Not known for its practical nature.

Is it a coincidence that this is declared just as TTIP is about to collapse ?

[Worthy4England]

I'm surprised it's not against the US Foreign and Corrupt Practices Act. You know, the one that could get you facing charges for giving $100 dinner.

It should be no more legitimate for governments and corporations to participate in what amounts to bribery as any other bugger.

[Hoboh]

I'm surprised it's not against the US Foreign and Corrupt Practices Act. You know, the one that could get you facing charges for giving $100 dinner.

It should be no more legitimate for governments and corporations to participate in what amounts to bribery as any other bugger.

Taxation needs sorting out once and for all alongside the 'incentives' to move factory's and warehousing around the EU.

Or we could leave and have a slice of something, better than a slice of now't.

[thebish]

I'm surprised it's not against the US Foreign and Corrupt Practices Act. You know, the one that could get you facing charges for giving $100 dinner.

It should be no more legitimate for governments and corporations to participate in what amounts to bribery as any other bugger.

Taxation needs sorting out once and for all alongside the 'incentives' to move factory's and warehousing around the EU.

Or we could leave and have a slice of something, better than a slice of now't.

we could... what remains to be seen is if we can offer enough incentives for firms to come here to off-set the lost advantages of ready&easy access to the single european market... maybe we can... that's the gamble we are about to take... if the pie chooses to be eaten in France or Germany instead - then there is no slice to be had...

[Worthy4England]

I'm surprised it's not against the US Foreign and Corrupt Practices Act. You know, the one that could get you facing charges for giving $100 dinner.

It should be no more legitimate for governments and corporations to participate in what amounts to bribery as any other bugger.

Taxation needs sorting out once and for all alongside the 'incentives' to move factory's and warehousing around the EU.

Or we could leave and have a slice of something, better than a slice of now't.

I agree with the first part about it needing sorting out. This has little to do with the EU, per se.

[bobo the clown]

I'm surprised it's not against the US Foreign and Corrupt Practices Act. You know, the one that could get you facing charges for giving $100 dinner.

It should be no more legitimate for governments and corporations to participate in what amounts to bribery as any other bugger.

Taxation needs sorting out once and for all alongside the 'incentives' to move factory's and warehousing around the EU.

Or we could leave and have a slice of something, better than a slice of now't.

Iagree with the first part about it needing sorting out. This has little to do with the EU, per se.

The interpretation yesterday has everything to do with the EU.

They want every nation within it to have essentially the same rules ... understandable but not what they can, currently, dictate.

The Yanks, as ever, are picking & chosing and will want their industries to have treatment they'd never permit inwards.

What the EU persists in failing to get is they aren't in competition with just the other member states but with every country out there. The rest of the World won't be constrained by the inefficiencies the EU builds into itself and we gradually choke on our own good intentions.

Well. I say WE ....

[Worthy4England]

Yesterday's interpretation was clearly an EU decision. Thanks, I'd missed that bit.

Strangely enough the US FCPA applies anywhere in the world as does the UK Bribery Act and the EU Anti-corruption conventions. Most of the Trade Agreements, be them TTIP or otherwise are all trying to get to the same place (in theory), whilst of course trying to protect the best deal each nation or trading bloc can get to its benefit as part of the negotiations.

They're like, essentially the same rules.

You can bang on about the EU as long as you like, but the reality is these things will exist, with or without it.

[bobo the clown]

Well. That's it then. Best overturn democracy on this basis !

75 people attend a pro-Europe gathering in Cardiff

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-37266879" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hoboh]

Well. That's it then. Best overturn democracy on this basis !

75 people attend a pro-Europe gathering in Cardiff

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-37266879" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Was the Welsh, knee trembler, warbler there as well? Seems to poke her nose into everything these days.

[thebish]

Well. That's it then. Best overturn democracy on this basis !

75 people attend a pro-Europe gathering in Cardiff

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-37266879" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Was the Welsh, knee trembler, warbler there as well? Seems to poke her nose into everything these days.

I don't think Bobo was there... no.