The Politics Thread

[Lord Kangana]

Opinion is clearly divided on the issue. All the facts point to a landslide. You think they don't.

Even more interesting is that the next 12 years of Tory rule didn't repeal the reforms of the Labour administration. Or indeed pretty much any administration until Thatcher. Again, opinion is clearly divided between whats going on in your head and what actually happened.

[BWFC_Insane]

I say to you BWFCi, if you are proud to follow a bunch of thugs dressed as labour who don't give a shit for democracy and would care even less if they got elected, then you should be bloody well ashamed of yourself!

Hobes, you say "follow". I'm hardly a follower.

I think the amount of spin in your post is though worthy of Alaistair Campbell and Lord Mandelson themselves.

Theresa May is a completely busted flush. Hated by the opposition and many Tories too. She absolutely should have gone and her not doing so is simply her own party trying to cling on in a vain attempt to try and steady their own ship.

Corbyn and McDonnell sounded silly claiming they could rule. I'd agree. However, they would argue that their point was that if the Tories couldn't do a deal (have they even done one yet) they would be prepared to try. Which is how our parliament and democracy work. If you don't have an overall majority you cannot guarantee that you will be the next government.

Now, the protests for me are again a part of our democracy. Personally I think it is silly to protest against May. She's dead in the water regardless and every day she stays on weakens the Tories. However, I think protesting austerity is important in the current situation. We've a government doing a deal with the DUP. The DUP are (despite being swivel eyed loons) generally less economically conservative than the Tories. So, right now, with everything going on, it is right that the ideological austerity nonsense is challenged. There is a revolution coming in this country. The poor have woken and found their voice. The young have been collectively engaged. This isn't about Labour or Corbyn. This is bigger. Normal people in this country have realised that the status quo of protecting the uber rich's interests is a load of old tripe. The tower fire only exemplifies this.

Even Tory middle England don't want police cuts, safety cuts and May. I don't think Corbyn will win an election (he would today if one was called but it won't be) - but I do think he's changing the shape of politics in this country. You may not like it, but then, that is sort of the point.

[Bruce Rioja]

[Worthy4England]

That'd be this lot.

[BWFC_Insane]

You can't blame Jeremy and everyone else for being confused. During the campaign May said....

The cold hard fact is that if I lose just six seats I will lose this election, and Jeremy Corbyn will be sitting down to negotiate with the presidents, prime ministers and chancellors of Europe

She lost 13 seats. So you know, Jeremy and his team and everyone in the country are probably rightly scratching their heads now.

[BWFC_Insane]

Like it or not, this image and ones like it will haunt May for a very long time.

[Bruce Rioja]

Like it or not, this image and ones like it will haunt May for a very long time.

Really? I agree that May (or her new advisors) have miscalculated here, but Corbyn's fast approaching the arena of over doing it so much as to soon appear false.

[BWFC_Insane]

Really? I agree that May (or her new advisors) have miscalculated here, but Corbyn's fast approaching the arena of over doing it so much as to soon appear false.

I think he has the public opinion in his favour at the minute. And whilst May's visit was to an extent understandable I think it looks terrible against the narrative that she is a cold, uncaring, robotic individual. And plays into Corbyn's "man of the people" narrative. However 'false' that may be there is a perfect storm brewing here I sense.

[Lord Kangana]

May has shown herself to be 3rd rate at best. Comparisons aren't really helpful to ascertain or deduce that. It clouds the issue to show what Corbyn did - what she did showed her up for who she really is.

[LeverEnd]

Like it or not, this image and ones like it will haunt May for a very long time.

Really? I agree that May (or her new advisors) have miscalculated here, but Corbyn's fast approaching the arena of over doing it so much as to soon appear false.

Possibly trying to make up for his obscene haste in politicising the situation while the place was still smouldering.
He is better at this than May but that was a misjudgement in my book.

[Worthy4England]

I'm sure he will be billed as "false" at some point in the red tops, but given all the stuff they tried to badge him with in the election run-up, there's probably one thing you can say about him, and that's if he believes in something, he tells it as he sees it. You might think he's fcking mental because of that but I think it's much more difficult to badge him as false than it is to badge him as a loony.

[BWFC_Insane]

Corbyn is coming off well across most of the media here, May poorly. Even Portillo has criticised her for showing a "lack of humanity."

Portillo and humanity - let that sink in.

May's favourability ratings are now as low in the polls as Corbyn was 6 months ago. Sadly for her I see little path to redemption. Mind I couldn't see it for Corbyn either.

See this from a journalist who pre-election was far far more May friendly than she was Corbyn.....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40297113

A week ago the BBC wouldn't have been onto this. Now they are. The last week has caused a seismic shift in opinion. The Tories are being blamed for the incident (wrongly in my view) by some in the media but again its sticking in a way it wouldn't have pre-election.

[Dr Hotdog]

The Queen is 91. She went. It's not political point scoring. It's just good decency.

[Worthy4England]

Factually, Labour did not cause the 2008 financial crisis. It was a global meltdown caused by financial institutions selling each other derivatives in which none of them knew what was inside the box. They then got nervous that they'd all cunningly packaged these derivatives up in a manner that was 80% shit. So effectively blagged the fcuk out of each other. They then panicked that they'd all bought high cost shit boxes from each other and tried to unload the shit before getting burned. The fact that it wasn't actually caused by Labour doesn't actually matter much. The fact people believed it was, is the important thing.

Same with the current government - the fact May might actually be human isn't really relevant right now. Unless something changes, the mud is sticking. The Queen has visited there, teary-eyed today. Anyone going to accuse her of doing it to raise her profile? It would be almost impossible not to be emotional at that scene, I would imagine. May looked like it was just another day in the office.

[Bruce Rioja]

I'm sure he will be billed as "false" at some point in the red tops, but given all the stuff they tried to badge him with in the election run-up, there's probably one thing you can say about him, and that's if he believes in something, he tells it as he sees it. You might think he's fcking mental because of that but I think it's much more difficult to badge him as false than it is to badge him as a loony.

I don't read them, Worthy, but I very much doubt that they'd have been attempting to badge him with anything worse than members of his own party were not too long ago. And regarding his stoic approach, I've always admired him for much of what he is. I've even defended him against BWFC-I for his humility. I'm just picking up the vibe that it's a card he's about to overplay though.

[CrazyHorse]

At the risk of repeating myself, should Corbyn's "friends" ever get into power, people should beware the knock on the door in the middle of the night.

Why? Is Corbyn planing on arming the pizza delivery guys or something?

[Worthy4England]

I suspect there are plenty of people (inside or outside the party) that he'd never convince. He shouldn't waste his effort on trying. You wouldn't really expect him to go on the stump in Maidenhead. He just needs to convince enough of the floating vote.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm sure he will be billed as "false" at some point in the red tops, but given all the stuff they tried to badge him with in the election run-up, there's probably one thing you can say about him, and that's if he believes in something, he tells it as he sees it. You might think he's fcking mental because of that but I think it's much more difficult to badge him as false than it is to badge him as a loony.

I don't read them, Worthy, but I very much doubt that they'd have been attempting to badge him with anything worse than members of his own party were not too long ago. And regarding his stoic approach, I've always admired him for much of what he is. I've even defended him against BWFC-I for his humility. I'm just picking up the vibe that it's a card he's about to overplay though.

I don't think in this instance he can though. W4E actually points out a very good analogy. The Tories and right wing press got the banking crisis into the head's of the public as "Labour's fault". It stuck there. Despite the Cameron led opposition barracking the then Labour government for even lower amounts of financial regulations on the banks. The political headwinds blew in their favour at the time. They couldn't mention it enough. There was no way they could overplay their hand against that backdrop.

The Grenfell fire, had it happened 6 weeks ago and the response been the same, it wouldn't have been significant politically, Corbyn might even have been the one taking flak for 'overplaying it'. In the aftermath of an election however, where one man mobilised previously unlikely voters by appearing in public with them and engaging and one woman with previously huge approval ratings steadily revealed herself to be the Maybot...the events this week, rightly or wrongly are simply extending that analogy further. Corbyn cares and is nice. May doesn't care, and can't even be bothered to talk to normal people (or is too scared to descend from her ivory tower).

Corbyn hugging and comforting survivors isn't something that can be overplayed. He's letting everyone else do that for him. But the fire, the Tories, May being cold and surrounded by the uniformed authorities....it really isn't good for them and in the current climate weakens her even more.

See angry Tory voter on QT last night citing the incident saying he won't vote Tory until May goes. I know one man and all...I'm always dubious of people who proclaim to be "lifelong voters" for any party...but still perception is a powerful thing.

[Lord Kangana]

The most important thing isn't politicians right now, but lots of dead people and displaced families. on balance.

Note, btw, those odious w*nkstains from the EDL were haranguing Muslims near to the tower block outisde a mosque. As the congregation (I'm not sure this is the correct collective nomenclature, but we all understand) were collecting for the victims/survivors.

[bedwetter2]

At the risk of repeating myself, should Corbyn's "friends" ever get into power, people should beware the knock on the door in the middle of the night.

Why? Is Corbyn planing on arming the pizza delivery guys or something?

Ah, I see what you did there. Though why Corbyn should plane pizza guys is beyond me.