The Final

warthog · Post by **warthog** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:25 pm

communistworkethic wrote:
Bruce Rioja wrote:
wovlad wrote:Anyone else think TV replays played a part in ZZ's sending off. I think all the officials missed it .
Only the TV replay as seen by the 4th official got the Frenchman sent off.
I'm absolutely convinced that that's the case or else the Lino woud have flagged. It also sets a very interesting precedent as clearly the powers that be wouldn't have wanted the egg on their faces of possibly seeing Zidane stroke home the winning penalty when he shouldn't have even been on the pitch.
Hopefully some of the stuffed shirts might now be prepared to accept that video evidence is a major benefit in a game that, without it, is fast decending into a farcical cheats charter!

he deserved to go, but it's an intersting thought. If the 4th official can point this out now, why not Graham Poll's second yellow card?

As the rules stand at the moment, the 4th official can't advise the referee on such things.

Think of the situation at Old Trafford, season before last, when Roy Carroll fumbled a shot from a Spurs player and the ball was quite clearly over the line. The referee and linesman missed it, but it would have been clear to the 4th official, who has access to TV, that it was a goal. He wasn't allowed to say so.

mummywhycantieatcrayons · Post by **mummywhycantieatcrayons** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:52 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:Bottom line, the Italian did his job and got Zidane sent off. One day provocation will be seen for the crime it is. Cantona went to jail because of it. No man should have to put up with insults to himself, his family or his religion. Unfortunately the real criminal gets off scot-free every time.

I fear we've been here before, but what could Materazzi possibly have said that justified that?

Bruce Rioja · Post by **Bruce Rioja** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:08 pm

mummywhycantieatcrayons wrote:I fear we've been here before, but what could Materazzi possibly have said that justified that?

I've been wondering that, and in the end I'm not to sure that I really want to know the answer.

I mean look at the situation. One of the finest players that the world has ever seen, playing in the biggest game on the planet, not only that but his last for his country for whom he's served with distinction and whilst carrying the hopes of that nation, in front of a billion people turns round, runs at and headbutts a guy? Well, he didn't just call him a Baldy, French git, did he?!

As I say, I'm not too sure that I want to know the depths to which a man is prepared to plummet in relation to what he's prepared to say to another, but I'll lay odds on it involving Zidane's Mother, Wife or kids.

superjohnmcginlay · Post by **superjohnmcginlay** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:12 pm

I heard (dunno if its true) that he called Zidane a terrorist or something along those lines in reference to him being Algerian.

warthog · Post by **warthog** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:20 pm

superjohnmcginlay wrote:I heard (dunno if its true) that he called Zidane a terrorist or something along those lines in reference to him being Algerian.

No doubt, there will be lots of rumours, and we'll probably never know the truth.

I can't help thinking that there's been an over reaction here. A headbutt in the chest is more an act of intimidation than outright violence. Zidane probably thought he'd get a yellow, as no facial contact was made.

mummywhycantieatcrayons · Post by **mummywhycantieatcrayons** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:26 pm

warthog wrote:
superjohnmcginlay wrote:I heard (dunno if its true) that he called Zidane a terrorist or something along those lines in reference to him being Algerian.
No doubt, there will be lots of rumours, and we'll probably never know the truth.

I can't help thinking that there's been an over reaction here. A headbutt in the chest is more an act of intimidation than outright violence. Zidane probably thought he'd get a yellow, as no facial contact was made.

It looked like a violent lunge though, didn't it? It's just so unusual - how could that ever be considered the natural reaction to any combination of words? It would be more understandable if he had just turned round and lamped him.

boltonben · Post by **boltonben** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:31 pm

superjohnmcginlay wrote:I heard (dunno if its true) that he called Zidane a terrorist or something along those lines in reference to him being Algerian.

I just heard that as well. Apparently some girl claiming to be able to lip-read Italian rung a radio phone in in France this morning claiming that he called him a terrorist.
It has been backed-up by one of Zidanes cousins:

http://fr.sports.yahoo.com/10072006/29/ ... selon.html

warthog · Post by **warthog** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:35 pm

mummywhycantieatcrayons wrote:
warthog wrote:
superjohnmcginlay wrote:I heard (dunno if its true) that he called Zidane a terrorist or something along those lines in reference to him being Algerian.
No doubt, there will be lots of rumours, and we'll probably never know the truth.

I can't help thinking that there's been an over reaction here. A headbutt in the chest is more an act of intimidation than outright violence. Zidane probably thought he'd get a yellow, as no facial contact was made.
It looked like a violent lunge though, didn't it? It's just so unusual - how could that ever be considered the natural reaction to any combination of words? It would be more understandable if he had just turned round and lamped him.

Like I said, it more an act of intimidation. Zidane had to take three or four steps before lunging. He's got form for this sort of thing. Witness his sending off at the World Cup in 1998.

50sQuiff · Post by **50sQuiff** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:36 pm

Intimidation? Perhaps, but it was violent conduct that he thought he would get away with. Zidane is no saint. Wasn't he sent off for a stamp in the last World Cup?

As Martin O'Neill said "well if Matterazi said something nasty to him will that's too bad, because it only happens every 15 seconds on the football pitch".

If this wasn't St. Zizou, and instead it was Ronaldo who butted John Terry in the most idiotic fashion possible, I doubt you would be so willing to condone his actions.

boltonben · Post by **boltonben** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:40 pm

50sQuiff wrote:Intimidation? Perhaps, but it was violent conduct that he thought he would get away with. Zidane is no saint. Wasn't he sent off for a stamp in the last World Cup?

As Martin O'Neill said "well if Matterazi said something nasty to him will that's too bad, because it only happens every 15 seconds on the football pitch".

If this wasn't St. Zizou, and instead it was Ronaldo who butted John Terry in the most idiotic fashion possible, I doubt you would be so willing to condone his actions.

Ziadane has been sent off more times than Roy Keane in his career. Not really a statistic that one would want to have.

mummywhycantieatcrayons · Post by **mummywhycantieatcrayons** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:41 pm

warthog wrote:Like I said, it more an act of intimidation. Zidane had to take three or four steps before lunging. He's got form for this sort of thing. Witness his sending off at the World Cup in 1998.

I think any headbutt executed with that degree of enthusiasm far exceeds mere 'intimidation'.

50sQuiff · Post by **50sQuiff** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:47 pm

boltonben wrote:
50sQuiff wrote:Intimidation? Perhaps, but it was violent conduct that he thought he would get away with. Zidane is no saint. Wasn't he sent off for a stamp in the last World Cup?

As Martin O'Neill said "well if Matterazi said something nasty to him will that's too bad, because it only happens every 15 seconds on the football pitch".

If this wasn't St. Zizou, and instead it was Ronaldo who butted John Terry in the most idiotic fashion possible, I doubt you would be so willing to condone his actions.
Ziadane has been sent off more times than Roy Keane in his career. Not really a statistic that one would want to have.

QED

As for the game, I quite enjoyed it. Italy are the Brazil of defence, and I actually enjoy watching them do it. Buffon is the best in the world, Materazzi was a revelation, Zambrotta and Grosso were awesome, and Cannavaro plays like he can see the future. The interceptions he makes are amazing, especially given how old and slow he is!

With Gattuso and Pirlo playing Quarterback into the mix, any claims that Italy are a mediocre team are laughable.

warthog · Post by **warthog** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:52 pm

50sQuiff wrote:Intimidation? Perhaps, but it was violent conduct that he thought he would get away with. Zidane is no saint. Wasn't he sent off for a stamp in the last World Cup?

As Martin O'Neill said "well if Matterazi said something nasty to him will that's too bad, because it only happens every 15 seconds on the football pitch".

If this wasn't St. Zizou, and instead it was Ronaldo who butted John Terry in the most idiotic fashion possible, I doubt you would be so willing to condone his actions.

Don't think so. He was sent off in the 1998 World Cup, but it couldn't be described as a stamp. He dragged his foot over an opponent who was on the floor as he stepped over him. It looked pretty inoccuous at the time. Henry was sent off in 2002 against Paraguay for a studs up tackle.

I'm not condoning Zidane's behaviour, merely asking that things be kept in perspective. Rooney actions against Portugal were more likely to inflict serious injury.

mummywhycantieatcrayons · Post by **mummywhycantieatcrayons** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:55 pm

warthog wrote:I'm not condoning Zidane's behaviour, merely asking that things be kept in perspective. Rooney actions against Portugal were more likely to inflict serious injury.

I can accept that a head to the chest can't sensibly be described as an attempt to do any serious bodily harm. But it was a deliberate act of violence deserving a of a red card. I'm much less convinced that Rooney's was a deliberate stamp to the groin.

Bruce Rioja · Post by **Bruce Rioja** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:58 pm

boltonben wrote: Ziadane has been sent off more times than Roy Keane in his career. Not really a statistic that one would want to have.

Well yes, but then Wee Ricky Gardner's been sent off more times than Robbie Savage.

keveh · Post by **keveh** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:58 pm

When they said Zidane lost his head, I didn't realise they mean this....

warthog · Post by **warthog** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:14 pm

mummywhycantieatcrayons wrote:
warthog wrote:I'm not condoning Zidane's behaviour, merely asking that things be kept in perspective. Rooney actions against Portugal were more likely to inflict serious injury.
I can accept that a head to the chest can't sensibly be described as an attempt to do any serious bodily harm. But it was a deliberate act of violence deserving a of a red card. I'm much less convinced that Rooney's was a deliberate stamp to the groin.

My feeling is that Zidane committed a calculated act of intimidation. By avoiding facial contact, he hoped to stay on the pitch. The gamble backfired. Given the force of the blow, I'd say that the sending off was justified.

As for Rooney, it was a deliberate stamp imo. You have to see it at full speed to appreciate the intent, but the TV companies keep replaying it in slow motion. I doubt though, that he was aiming for a specific area.

mummywhycantieatcrayons · Post by **mummywhycantieatcrayons** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:21 pm

warthog wrote:My feeling is that Zidane committed a calculated act of intimidation. By avoiding facial contact, he hoped to stay on the pitch. The gamble backfired. Given the force of the blow, I'd say that the sending off was justified.

There was no calculated gamble that weighed up the possible consequences - he lost control in the heat of the moment.

warthog · Post by **warthog** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:23 pm

mummywhycantieatcrayons wrote:
warthog wrote:My feeling is that Zidane committed a calculated act of intimidation. By avoiding facial contact, he hoped to stay on the pitch. The gamble backfired. Given the force of the blow, I'd say that the sending off was justified.
There was no calculated gamble that weighed up the possible consequences - he lost control in the heat of the moment.

Then we'll have to agree to differ.

On a lighter note

H. Pedersen · Post by **H. Pedersen** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:46 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJP

As that video shows, Materazzi is a ****ing headcase. I have also heard he used a racial slur against Hatem Trabelsi earlier this year, and he was already sent off in the World Cup.

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