Bradford City Fire Footage

[InsaneApache]

So you think kids and pensioners being [a] burnt alive drowned in a hurricane tidal surge funny?

Monty Python is funny. Those scenarios are'n't.

EDIT: Apology welcome.





Edited to reply to WB edit

[Montreal Wanderer]

The footage is quite extraordinary. At first I thought to myself - how could people die since it seemed easy to run down to the field? Yet the astonishing speed it spread at seemed to catch everone by surprise (and I didn't know about the locked doors - what incredible stupidity). I was also startled that clothes caught fire and burnt so quickly - I hope today's clothes are more fire resistant. There was also much bravery as people ran close to the flames to pull people away or smother their clothes (and not just the police).

[white blood]

So you think kids and pensioners being [a] burnt alive drowned in a hurricane tidal surge funny?

Monty Python is funny. Those scenarios are'n't.

EDIT: Apology welcome.





Edited to reply to WB edit

No, the thought of people burning or drowning is not funny. but the gags that do the rounds as a result are, (sometimes not i might add) but stuff like the surviors of the tsuami have one consolation, they have all got swimming pools in their back yards now! someone said that to me days after it happened and i laughed. send me to hell.
Plenty of folk on here were quick to make gags about benders when it was reported that city want to attract gays to eastlands. and jokes about Jacko and kids etc, its all the same. no harm done?

[blurred]

The footage is quite extraordinary. At first I thought to myself - how could people die since it seemed easy to run down to the field? Yet the astonishing speed it spread at seemed to catch everone by surprise (and I didn't know about the locked doors - what incredible stupidity). I was also startled that clothes caught fire and burnt so quickly - I hope today's clothes are more fire resistant. There was also much bravery as people ran close to the flames to pull people away or smother their clothes (and not just the police).

The locked exit doors are a thing of the past, thankfull - don't know if when any of you have visited Anfield you have had the pleasure of hearing this massive 'BING BONG - This is Operation Anfield Exercise', but about half a dozen times a season they run a test like this to ensure that exit gates can be opened within a matter of seconds if required. I'm sure other grounds do similar routines.

Thankfully things like this will never happen again, not only as a result of stadium construction, but also stewarding and safety standards being vastly improved.

RIP to the 56, and kudos to the board of Bradford who have vowed never to play on May 11th again. I wish ours would do something similar with April 15th...

[Montreal Wanderer]

RIP to the 56, and kudos to the board of Bradford who have vowed never to play on May 11th again. I wish ours would do something similar with April 15th...

I'm assuming April 15 is Hillsborough. We actually didn't hear that much about it over here. However, it featured in the very first episode of Cracker that I ever saw - and that was gripping but terrifying television.

[blurred]

I'm assuming April 15 is Hillsborough. We actually didn't hear that much about it over here. However, it featured in the very first episode of Cracker that I ever saw - and that was gripping but terrifying television.

Yep, April 15th 1989 was the Hillsborough disaster. If you want to see a compelling adaptation of that, try and get hold of Jimmy McGovern's documentary/drama on it - that'll shake you to your core. A fantastically compelling piece of television.

www.contrast.org/hillsborough for more information and links

[enfieldwhite]

I'm assuming April 15 is Hillsborough. We actually didn't hear that much about it over here. However, it featured in the very first episode of Cracker that I ever saw - and that was gripping but terrifying television.

Yep, April 15th 1989 was the Hillsborough disaster. If you want to see a compelling adaptation of that, try and get hold of Jimmy McGovern's documentary/drama on it - that'll shake you to your core. A fantastically compelling piece of television.

www.contrast.org/hillsborough for more information and links

And coincidentally, Cracker returns this weekend on ITV.

Robert Carlyle(sp) was brilliant in that. (Sorry to go off track)

We, of course have the Burnden disaster to mourn ourselves.

[Soldier_Of_The_White_Army]

I'm assuming April 15 is Hillsborough. We actually didn't hear that much about it over here. However, it featured in the very first episode of Cracker that I ever saw - and that was gripping but terrifying television.

Yep, April 15th 1989 was the Hillsborough disaster. If you want to see a compelling adaptation of that, try and get hold of Jimmy McGovern's documentary/drama on it - that'll shake you to your core. A fantastically compelling piece of television.

www.contrast.org/hillsborough for more information and links

And coincidentally, Cracker returns this weekend on ITV.

Robert Carlyle(sp) was brilliant in that. (Sorry to go off track)

We, of course have the Burnden disaster to mourn ourselves.

WOW, when you go off track you don't fxck around do you Enfield

[Bruce Rioja]

If you want to see a compelling adaptation of that, try and get hold of Jimmy McGovern's documentary/drama on it - that'll shake you to your core. A fantastically compelling piece of television.

www.contrast.org/hillsborough for more information and links

Have to be honest, Blurred. Anything I've ever seen of McGovern's has always come over to me as being pathetically jaundiced, and this little lot strengthened my belief in that my conclusion's correct.

[enfieldwhite]

I'm assuming April 15 is Hillsborough. We actually didn't hear that much about it over here. However, it featured in the very first episode of Cracker that I ever saw - and that was gripping but terrifying television.

Yep, April 15th 1989 was the Hillsborough disaster. If you want to see a compelling adaptation of that, try and get hold of Jimmy McGovern's documentary/drama on it - that'll shake you to your core. A fantastically compelling piece of television.

www.contrast.org/hillsborough for more information and links

And coincidentally, Cracker returns this weekend on ITV.

Robert Carlyle(sp) was brilliant in that. (Sorry to go off track)

We, of course have the Burnden disaster to mourn ourselves.

WOW, when you go off track you don't fxck around do you Enfield

?

[communistworkethic]

FIRE!

Quality! loved how the fans were still singing as it all went up. see that geezer who was on fire, didnt look arsed, must have been bladdered?

what a fecking stupid comment, a new low.

[enfieldwhite]

FIRE!

Quality! loved how the fans were still singing as it all went up. see that geezer who was on fire, didnt look arsed, must have been bladdered?

what a fecking stupid comment, a new low.

Have to say I agree. When I posted at the beginning I was nervous as to how this would unfold. The majority of people who didn't know about this have treated the information with a combination of curiosity and respect.

Sorry WB, but you're way over the acceptable line.

[bw@bw]

FIRE!

Quality! loved how the fans were still singing as it all went up. see that geezer who was on fire, didnt look arsed, must have been bladdered?

what a fecking stupid comment, a new low.

Have to say I agree. When I posted at the beginning I was nervous as to how this would unfold. The majority of people who didn't know about this have treated the information with a combination of curiosity and respect.

Sorry WB, but you're way over the acceptable line.

Glad some others agree with me. That was one of the most offensive posts I have ever seen on this site.

The worst thing about the Bradford City fire was that it happened so quickly. The poor fans didn't stand a chance.
After all that has been learned about it (and other clubs) since, the only surprising thing is that it had not happened earlier.

David Conn devotes a chapter to a short but thorough account of the Bradford City situation in his excellent book "the Beautiful Game". Some of the evidence later produced in court is literally incredible - but true - and typical of the time.

Examples-


The stand had not been cleaned properly for years. Amongst the rubbish found under the stand was a copy of the Bradford Telegraph and Argus from 1968 and an empty packet of peanuts from pre-decimalisation(1971). Over 14 years before the fire.
The Health and safety Executive and county council had written to the club (warning of the fire hazard from litter under the stand) but the letters failled to reach the Chairman...............
.........the chairman told the court that even if he had seen the letters he would have done nothing... the cost would have been considerable.
Here was a club turning over £621,000 a year (yes a year ed ) whose chairman was still, after people had died, saying he would not have sanctioned expenditure to remove the fire hazard which killed them, but who had spent £419,000 on paying players to form a team which would win promotion"

and so on.....



We should not be complacent. Whilst virtually all of our top football stadia have been rebuilt there are still plenty of grounds in the lower leagues and plenty of other sports venues which have not - and have no prospect of being.

History says that these events get forgotten - until the next time.

OK so the numbers have changed. But have the priorities?

It was only this year that Pompey raised £20m from Gaydamak to fund the development of a new stadium etc etc, so they could move out of the antique that is Fratton Park (wooden construction ?) -and then promptly spent the lot on players to keep them in the Prem.

Plus ca change.




PS Maybe we could all have been saved a lot of trouble if the Panorama editors had read David Conn's book. Whatever allegations they have made, Conn shows that far worse has been going on for well over a century.

[warthog]

Interesting stuff BW. Were lessons learned? Like hell. In 1987 31 people perished in the Kings Cross fire which happened for the same reasons.

Fratton Park is a hovel. How it got a safety certificate is a mystery.

If you want to have a look at an unsafe football ground look no further than Villa Park. The seats in the away end are so close together, that if you had to evacuate it quickly, there would be carnage.

[Batman]

Was there not always some suspicion that it was an insurance job and the Chairman was in some way complicit with the fire being started?


I could be wrong........

[plodder]

I watched the footage for the first time and am absolutely horrified by what unfolds. Far too much emotion here to be sensible.

I do hope the idiotic comments have the correct effect and you are thoroughly ashamed. People died.

Thanks for the post enfield but fk me.

[bw@bw]

Was there not always some suspicion that it was an insurance job and the Chairman was in some way complicit with the fire being started?


I could be wrong........

No.

The reason the ground was so full was that Bradford City had just won promotion - their most successful season for donkey's years.

The chairman was a hero in the city. - At least up to that day.

The basics were that
There was a "void" under the seating into which things could drop (think of the Burnden Stand).
There were gaps in the woodwork (ditto?).
There was a build up of litter under the stand. (as shown, over 15 years of it)
A lighted cigarette dropped through - almost inevitable.

All exactly as the local council had predicted when sending the warning letters (which got stapled to other papers and filed away without ever being read).


And yes - Kings Cross was almost identical.

Not sure about Villa Park. The basic structure looks Ok, though the way out from the top level could never be done in 2 minutes even if the ground was empty, never mind if it was full.

I would be more worried about overcrowded pubs / nightclubs etc - where the bouncers lock the fire exits to stop people getting in by the back door - and the escape route in the dark is unclear

or some of the older football / rugby grounds on a busy day.

[warthog]

Not sure about Villa Park. The basic structure looks Ok, though the way out from the top level could never be done in 2 minutes even if the ground was empty, never mind if it was full.

Its the away end thats the problem. It used to be a standing area which they've put seats on. The gap between the rows is so narrow it's very difficult to get to your seat. If it had to be evacuated quickly there'd be major problems.

[bw@bw]

Not sure about Villa Park. The basic structure looks Ok, though the way out from the top level could never be done in 2 minutes even if the ground was empty, never mind if it was full.

Its the away end thats the problem. It used to be a standing area which they've put seats on. The gap between the rows is so narrow it's very difficult to get to your seat. If it had to be evacuated quickly there'd be major problems.

I take your point.

The last time I was at that end was actually with the home supporters on my son's school trip (above the away stand).

What I remember most about it was how steep the steps are.

Getting a crowd out in a panic (as a fire would produce) would be difficult

[Bruce Rioja]

Not sure about Villa Park. The basic structure looks Ok, though the way out from the top level could never be done in 2 minutes even if the ground was empty, never mind if it was full.

Its the away end thats the problem. It used to be a standing area which they've put seats on. The gap between the rows is so narrow it's very difficult to get to your seat. If it had to be evacuated quickly there'd be major problems.

See also the Anfield Road End at Liverpool. It's as well that there's not much to catch fire there as there would be no chance of evacuating it in a hurry.