The Politics Thread

[William the White]

But I don't think I've ever sought to trivialise or demean the stories of others...

Good, then you won't mind me saying that my having had first-hand experience of them has left me with thoughts aligned with those of Adolf Hilter when it comes to this lot!

You've been ratty with me before about this issue - I expect you will again...

Even if you claim it to be so I refuse to put you down as a fan of Adolf Hitler...

I just know you're really a committed proponent of hyperbole...

[Worthy4England]

By what stretch of the imagination, should my local community have to pay for the Council to come and clear up the shit-tip they leave (including human shit) every time they roll up on adjoining fields? I'm happy for them to have a travelling way of life, but why shouldn't they pay for the privilege themselves? Go through planning permission, pay for their own sites etc.

I'd have no argument with any of that. It isn't my understanding that travellers are demanding free sites with free amenities and tax-exemption (not sure how tax has even entered this discussion.)

There have been several applications very local to me for land to be used for "travelling showman sites" - and all have been denied planning permission by the local authority.

I'm not sure the issue is providing FREE sites or even FREE amenities - the land under dispute in Basildon was bought by the travellers - it is THEIR land - they are quite happy to fund its development and installation of amenities (as I understand it).

The problem is with councils granting planning permission.

councils routinely grant planning permission for the (for the want of a better word) "settler" community - and the Tories are currently lining up thousands of acres of green belt land for development by their construction company fat-cat chums - the same privilege is NOT afforded to traveller communities, at least not on a sufficient scale to prevent the ongoing problem where you find them rolling up on land they should never be on right on your doorstep.

yes - they should pay for their sites - yes, they should pay for their upkeep and installation of amenities - but they can't really do that if councils won't grant planning permissions and will not set aside land that travellers could purchase and develop for the purpose.

I don't think this is the proverbial "rocket science". If travellers were genuinely offered the chance to develop sites of their own in enough places - then (as i said before) - I'd be one step behind you driving the bulldozer to evict them from places they shouldn't be - they would have no reason or excuse to be there. But I don't think we are anywhere near that situation - at the moment, they are pretty much prevented from travelling and blocked from settling...

Everything should quite correctly go through the planning permission process (even though it has been known to be a bit shit at times). When they jog up next to me, it's a FREE site, and we then have to PAY to clear their shit up.

Not getting planning permission from the Council is just tough shit. Lots of people don't get planning permission to do what they want. In the case of Basildon, they could have seen the planning restrictions before they purchased, and put anything on the land and saved themselves the money. Instead, they've said "feck-you" to the law, "I want to live near me mates, so that's what I'm going to do." They should rightfully be evicted, I know someone who had to demolish a house because it hadn't got the necessary planning permission - had Planning been applied for, it would have done, but for whatever reason, it didn't go through the process and had to be pulled down. They seem to be happy when the legislation is coming down in their favour (such as with the temporary injunctions on eviction at the minute), but when it doesn't, the legislation is at fault. I think I will pick which laws I choose to take notice of too.

The point you make about greenbelt development is moot. The same privilege IS being afforded to the traveller community, they could buy a house, they're just choosing not to take advantage of it. Partially in support of mummy's point, whilst still acknowledging that it would be difficult to police, I have to travel to do my work, sometimes up in Scotland, sometimes down in London, sometimes in a different Country - as do many others. I manage without having to do it from a caravan. I don't think it unreasonable that all members of our society should have to declare a permenant residence.

The travelling community may not be demanding Tax Exemption. I'm sure they pay the full amounts due (especially the ones that aren't "static" travellers), honest, guv - and that's not to say there aren't plenty of non-travellers that don't pay what's due and cheat the system - they should also be rooted out.

[thebish]

in which case, Worthy - I've lost sight of what you imagine the way forward to be - other than you bursting a blood vessel every time you look out of your window!

[Bruce Rioja]

But I don't think I've ever sought to trivialise or demean the stories of others...

Good, then you won't mind me saying that my having had first-hand experience of them has left me with thoughts aligned with those of Adolf Hilter when it comes to this lot!

You've been ratty with me before about this issue - I expect you will again...

Even if you claim it to be so I refuse to put you down as a fan of Adolf Hitler...

I just know you're really a committed proponent of hyperbole...

Happen you're right, William

When we grab that pint I'll tell you the tale. (and my apologies for appearing ratty)

[thebish]

those who want to sort out the "gyppos" can all relax - there's an e-petition to sign!

that should sort it!

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1309

[Lofthouse Lower]

dirty f uckers

[Bruce Rioja]

those who want to sort out the "gyppos" can all relax - there's an e-petition to sign!

that should sort it!

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1309

As a quick aside, has anything never been achieved by people signing e-petitions?

[thebish]

those who want to sort out the "gyppos" can all relax - there's an e-petition to sign!

that should sort it!

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1309

As a quick aside, has anything never been achieved by people signing e-petitions?

it's second only to having a facebook group as a form of effective social protest....

[CrazyHorse]

Slow down a bit there guys.
Before anyone signs any petition we need to come to an agreement as to the correct spelling of Gypo. Horse says it's with a single P. Or is it Bish's double P? Or is it maybe the secret curveball spelling with an I as in Gippo?

This is important.

[Lofthouse Lower]

I was unsure too, and gambled.

[Worthy4England]

in which case, Worthy - I've lost sight of what you imagine the way forward to be - other than you bursting a blood vessel every time you look out of your window!

Why should I find the solution, it's not my problem, as long as the pikey bastards don't pull up outside my front door. Maybe all their supporters have enough back gardens to offer them temporary stop-over points' or the odd spare bedroom. See, sorted. And I wasn't even trying.

There's plenty of room in Ireland. Land all over the shop. We could offer repatriation grants. Same with the rest of Europe - freedom of trade and all that. All that knife sharpening might actually spring the Greek economy back into action and the weather's better...

Lots of possibilities, without having to change our society to accommodate their preference.

[thebish]

in which case, Worthy - I've lost sight of what you imagine the way forward to be - other than you bursting a blood vessel every time you look out of your window!

Why should I find the solution, it's not my problem, as long as the pikey bastards don't pull up outside my front door.

hmmm.. but they do - and you identified that as a problem (unless I missed something?)

you don't have to find a solution - it's just that finding a solution was at least in part what I thought we were talking about! - otherwise - if it's just a rant - may I suggest the angry thread?

there's an "I hate caravans" theme there at the moment - opportunity for two birds with one angry stone?

[Worthy4England]

in which case, Worthy - I've lost sight of what you imagine the way forward to be - other than you bursting a blood vessel every time you look out of your window!

Why should I find the solution, it's not my problem, as long as the pikey bastards don't pull up outside my front door.

hmmm.. but they do - and you identified that as a problem (unless I missed something?)

you don't have to find a solution - it's just that finding a solution was at least in part what I thought we were talking about! - otherwise - if it's just a rant - may I suggest the angry thread?

But they might not, now those rocks have been put down (recently) - which you might have missed from a previous post.

So solutions so far.

1) Repatriation grants
2) Offer of Council Housing
3) Make it illegal for anyone to stay in the County more than 6 months without being able to declare a static residence.
4) To support 3) strike an arms deal with Chad, that commits them to take anyone we need to forceably migrate as a result of not complying with 3)
5) Migrate non-conformers to Chad.

[Hoboh]

So target practise at the gunnary range don't count as a solution then?

[thebish]

2) Offer of Council Housing

isn't there a 90year waiting list? I hope you're not suggesting they be allowed to jump the queue?

[TANGODANCER]

Slow down a bit there guys.
Before anyone signs any petition we need to come to an agreement as to the correct spelling of Gypo. Horse says it's with a single P. Or is it Bish's double P? Or is it maybe the secret curveball spelling with an I as in Gippo? This is important.

Horse is historically correct, although it's all slang term: Egyptians, Gypsies, Gipos'. Single p.

[Lord Kangana]

If anyone's interested in a lasting solution, everyone is going to have to compromise something.

[Bruce Rioja]

those who want to sort out the "gyppos" can all relax - there's an e-petition to sign!

that should sort it!

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/1309

As a quick aside, has anything never been achieved by people signing e-petitions?

it's second only to having a facebook group as a form of effective social protest....

Ah see, you need to get it 'trending on Twitter', see? Did we ever find out what that actually means, by the way?

[Worthy4England]

If anyone's interested in a lasting solution, everyone is going to have to compromise something.

I've already offered them Wales...

[Worthy4England]

2) Offer of Council Housing

isn't there a 90year waiting list? I hope you're not suggesting they be allowed to jump the queue?

No not suggesting that at all. They can join the waiting list.