Oh just lay off crouch will you

[White Knight]

Bolloks mate your way off the mark. I can't believe you are even comparing the two, i'd stick Davies in Crouch's England squad position any day. Their workrate is completely different in the fact that Davies has 10X more of it and a 99% better success rate from it all. When was the last time you saw Crouch actually win a ball in the air convincingly and mek anything of it? 6ft'7 my ass, it means nothing when you have about as much strength as a used bit of bog roll, hes the easiest player in the world to defend against, you just brush him aside its that simple. Davies is all over the pitch working his ass off only to be moaned at a lot of the time by Bolton fans. Hes big, strong, intimidating and one of the hardest workers in the prem. Crouch i dont even rate at all to be honest, lanky bolloks is just a novelty because of his size.

[Super_Kevin_Davies]

I'd pick Davies over Crouch every time, but I guess that I am biased ! Crouch's strong point is his height, I remember when he scored for Villa against us at the Reebok, he just put his hands on Charlton's shoulders and headed it into the net...Charlie didn't stand a chance !! Crouch does get around the pitch, but he is not as effective as Davies at holding up the ball...but I don't know why I am even bothering to moan...like Davies would ever be picked for England anyway?!!

[blurred]

To be honest, those that are bemoaning 'Davies will never get picked for England' are probably right, and not necessarily through merit. Obviously Sven is more likely to watch, and therefore likely to pick Crouch because he features in higher profile games than Davies. And this is not a slight against Bolton, but when Sven goes and sees Crouch perform against United or Chelsea (or whatever other games he's been to at Anfield this year) it is slightly different than him seeing Davies score against Sunderland.

Sven picks the higher profile games to see the bigger name players and how they deal with the big occasion. While I'm sure that Davies has played well this season, he may or may not have done so on the bigger stage, and certainly not under the eyes of Sven. See my post on the last page defending Crouch and you'll see where I'm coming from. Yes it's easy to mock him because he hasn't scored this season, but then if goals were all that Sven cared about, tonight would have seen Lampard and Bent up-front for England, which is just pure bollocks. Obviously Rafa and Sven are somewhat more clued in to things than most of us (due to the fact that a) it's their job to be, and b) they have more kit at their disposal) and we should probably trust our managers a little bit more than we do.

I trust Rafa in bringing the players he has brought to Anfield, surely in a similar way that you will all trust Sam with what he's doing at the Reebok. If Davies (or any other Bolton player for that matter) deserves a place in the England squad through their performances then you shall just have to trust that they are going to get that shot. But just as a cautionary tale, you all saw how well Danny Murphy started the season, and look how far that got him in the England reckoning...

[americantrotter]

I think Crouch is a decent striker. But Sven has said he wants him to hold the ball up. he doesnt do that very well, Davies does. I understood his cap after scoring 16 goals. Many of them were skill goals. His looks are that of a man who could head, but his game is playing off people and scoring with his feet. Davies and he are different players. I wish Sven understood who he was selecting for what role.

[theroadend]

YOu have to give Crouch time to blend in. He's only been at Liverpool 2-3 months. He has played well in Europe. He is not necessarily an out and out goal scorer, he does well in the build up play. FOr southampton they played with 2 out and out wingers and Redknapp told him to just play on the last man, get in the box and wait for the crosses from the wide men. 75% of crouch's goals last season came from wide areas. He has to adjust to Liverpool's style of play which is much different from Southampton's. For so called England fans to boo him in the recent qualifier against Poland was a fing disgrace, most England fans are clueless i.e. they just jump on the bandwagon and rarely do these muppets go week in week out following their club.

RANT OVER

[Bench]

You know that scene in Men in Black? The one where they open up the old guy and find that he really is some kind of bio-mechanical robot piloted by a little-diddy alien? Well....thats how I think of Crouch........


Anyhoo....I admit that the booing of any England international, regardless of ability, is a disgrace. But the whole premise for many on this board to rip the shite out of Crouch is that he is simply not good enough for England. You yerself say that he must be given time to bed-in and adapt at Liverpool - if he hasn't done this yet then why-oh-why is he being selected for England?

[theroadend]

To be honest, I don't understand why he's in the squad myself. He is not yet an international player. The only thing I think Sven might have picked him for his height and comments from players following the Argentina match seem positive:

"Crouchy was brilliant when he came on in the second half," said Rooney.

"He was probably the main influence on us winning. For the crosses into the box, the defenders were worried about him - which created space for Michael."


He offered something different when England where chasing the game. Who would you have throw on if Crouch was'nt in the squad...

[Soldier_Of_The_White_Army]

To be honest, I don't understand why he's in the squad myself. He is not yet an international player. The only thing I think Sven might have picked him for his height and comments from players following the Argentina match seem positive:

"Crouchy was brilliant when he came on in the second half," said Rooney.

"He was probably the main influence on us winning. For the crosses into the box, the defenders were worried about him - which created space for Michael."


He offered something different when England where chasing the game. Who would you have throw on if Crouch was'nt in the squad...

I still feel the opposition would be more worried about Davies ACTUALLY winnings headers in and around the box, and lets face it, foriegn defenders dont like it up em!!!

[communistworkethic]

To be honest, those that are bemoaning 'Davies will never get picked for England' are probably right, and not necessarily through merit. Obviously Sven is more likely to watch, and therefore likely to pick Crouch because he features in higher profile games than Davies. And this is not a slight against Bolton, but when Sven goes and sees Crouch perform against United or Chelsea (or whatever other games he's been to at Anfield this year) it is slightly different than him seeing Davies score against Sunderland.

Sven picks the higher profile games to see the bigger name players and how they deal with the big occasion. While I'm sure that Davies has played well this season, he may or may not have done so on the bigger stage, and certainly not under the eyes of Sven.

utter bollocks! You talk like we only play sunderland! You may have notice that 1. we are above you in the league 2. you don't do too well against us in recent seasons 3. we're pretty good at getting results away from home in these so called "high profile games"

What your post shows is that you are just another arrogant smug "big 5" follower, who can't get his head round the fact that "little old bolton" like to come round and piss on your over-priced chips.

Big stage? There's the same crowd at Old Trafford when we play their as when you do and probably more scum fans - now which is the more hostile environment for the visiting team? OT when Liverpool are there or when Bolton are there?

Now, away with you and concentrate on your own team's rather obvious short-comings.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

utter bollocks! You talk like we only play sunderland! You may have notice that 1. we are above you in the league 2. you don't do too well against us in recent seasons 3. we're pretty good at getting results away from home in these so called "high profile games"

What your post shows is that you are just another arrogant smug "big 5" follower, who can't get his head round the fact that "little old bolton" like to come round and piss on your over-priced chips.

Big stage? There's the same crowd at Old Trafford when we play their as when you do and probably more scum fans - now which is the more hostile environment for the visiting team? OT when Liverpool are there or when Bolton are there?

Now, away with you and concentrate on your own team's rather obvious short-comings.

Whilst Blurred has a long record of Bolton-mocking (His headline when we signed Borgetti? "BOLTON IN YOUNG PLAYER SHOCK") his points were all reasonable and he does not belong to the category of arrogant Liverpool fans I too find so objectionable.

Do we really want to discourage fans from other clubs from participating on here at all and just have our own insular debates?

[communistworkethic]

utter bollocks! You talk like we only play sunderland! You may have notice that 1. we are above you in the league 2. you don't do too well against us in recent seasons 3. we're pretty good at getting results away from home in these so called "high profile games"

What your post shows is that you are just another arrogant smug "big 5" follower, who can't get his head round the fact that "little old bolton" like to come round and piss on your over-priced chips.

Big stage? There's the same crowd at Old Trafford when we play their as when you do and probably more scum fans - now which is the more hostile environment for the visiting team? OT when Liverpool are there or when Bolton are there?

Now, away with you and concentrate on your own team's rather obvious short-comings.

Whilst Blurred has a long record of Bolton-mocking (His headline when we signed Borgetti? "BOLTON IN YOUNG PLAYER SHOCK") his points were all reasonable and he does not belong to the category of arrogant Liverpool fans I too find so objectionable.

Do we really want to discourage fans from other clubs from participating on here at all and just have our own insular debates?

I am free to express an opinion.

Stating "this is not a slight in Bolton" doesn't make it such. If it wasn't a slight why pick the leagues strugglers? Eh? Another example of "you stick with your own kind there little Bolton, us big boys like our "elite club" with just the 5 or 6 of us. You can't possibly be playing at the same level or under the same pressure as us. " Great 1-0 win they got at home to Sunderland, how did Crouch do then? Injured. Or Away at that other giant - Fulham 1-0, didn't score. And in the "big games"? Man U - 0-0, Chelsea - lost 4-1, did he score? No.

There's little to substantiate the premise that Beanpole Pete's performances against the big boys are any better than KD's on the face of it. Or against the little teams.

Crouch amongst a £100million pound team with 6,000 scousers supporting him at OT or Davies amongst a £7million team with 3,000 whites supporting him at OT - really, who's having to cope with the most?

Bring me facts, not solely supposition.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Fact: Telling fans of other clubs to go away is unacceptable.

[communistworkethic]

Fact: Telling fans of other clubs to go away is unacceptable.

could have told him to F8ck off but I didn't. Get a grip of yourself lad and look what I wrote in those final few lines, hardly the sternest of rebukes was it?

I don't see his post through the same rose-tinted glasses as you, it was a slight against my team, one that he's not in a position to make so far this season.

Crouch has his place in the England squad on last season's form, not this. He has a height advantage over everyone and is better on the ground than he gets credit for but if you want something different then Davies brings more than Crouch. Davies would put the fear of God in to most international back 4's with 30mins to go, they'd just not be used to that kind of assault.

If you want and example of Crouch's shortcomings go back and watch the England v Argentina game again - final goal, 5'5 Michael Owen beat him to the ball. 6'7 and can't head the thing - marvellous.

[blurred]

Wow, so many things to deal with, I almost don't know where to begin.

utter bollocks! You talk like we only play sunderland!

Well obviously that’s not true, and I just used Sunderland as an example of Bolton’s relatively easy start to the season. And before you jump down my throat (again) and accuse me of some sort of bigoted ‘big team prejudice’ or somesuch, can we just have a look at our respective fixture lists to date this season:

Teams that Bolton have played this season (in 12 games) that can reasonably be expected to be in the shake up towards the end of the year: Chelsea away, and Tottenham at home.
Teams that Liverpool have played this season (in 10 games) that can reasonably be expected to be in the shake up towards the end of the year: Chelsea and Manchester United, Spurs away and also Boro away (euro qualifiers from last year).

You may have notice that 1. we are above you in the league

This is true – largely evinced by the two facts above, firstly that you have played two more games, and against largely inferior opposition. Yes I am aware that were we to win our two games in hand we would still lag 1 point behind you, but I refer to point one.

2. you don't do too well against us in recent seasons

What that has to do with the relative merits of Peter Crouch or Kevin Davies I don’t really know, but yes, congratulations, you have been a ‘bogey team’ of ours for quite a while.

What your post shows is that you are just another arrogant smug "big 5" follower, who can't get his head round the fact that "little old bolton" like to come round and piss on your over-priced chips.

What I believe your posts shows is that you have a disproportionately sized chip on your shoulder that a fan from another team can make a comment about a player that you happen to disagree with. While I could easily point out the number of times that you have misinterpreted what I have said, I shan’t bother as it appears that you are quite entrenched in your viewpoint. What I will take exception to is factual inaccuracies.

Great 1-0 win they got at home to Sunderland, how did Crouch do then? Injured. Or Away at that other giant - Fulham 1-0, didn't score.

Crouch was actually suspended against Sunderland owing to a red card that he picked up while playing for Southampton at the end of last season, and so could not have played (as if you are saying being injured is his fault). Secondly against Fulham we actually lost 2-0, and Crouch was on the bench until the 76th minute as Rafa started with Cissé and Morientes up front for that one. Quite how a player is expected to set the world alight in 14 minutes of football is beyond me, but for what it’s worth he didn’t play too badly at Craven Cottage after coming on for Kewell. But then again, don’t worry and let little things like facts get in the way of the amazing point you were making about Crouch’s effectiveness. Oh, what was that you said?

Bring me facts, not solely supposition.

Oh the irony.

Do your own research before asking others to be factually accurate, even if in their posts they didn’t state anything as ‘fact’ and merely proferred an opinion, which you are fine to disagree with.

You are much more likely to have seen Davies this season than I have (as I mentioned fairly extensively in my first post in this topic). Please re-visit this and perhaps digest my points about rating and slating of players that you do not see week-in and week-out.

Oh, and

Whilst Blurred has a long record of Bolton-mocking (His headline when we signed Borgetti? "BOLTON IN YOUNG PLAYER SHOCK") his points were all reasonable and he does not belong to the category of arrogant Liverpool fans I too find so objectionable.

I’d hardly say I have a long record of Bolton mocking?! I have been known to make the odd jokey comment, this is true, but then that’s just the general ribbing that goes with supporting different football teams, surely?

And thank you for not finding me objectionable. I wish I could say the same about Communistworkethic, and not because he disagrees with me, but in the way in which he does so. As Voltaire once said “I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it.”

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I’d hardly say I have a long record of Bolton mocking?! I have been known to make the odd jokey comment, this is true, but then that’s just the general ribbing that goes with supporting different football teams, surely?

Indeed.

It was you who put that cruel 'Saga' link into a Bolton-related post wasn't it? I still feel the pain....

[blurred]

I’d hardly say I have a long record of Bolton mocking?! I have been known to make the odd jokey comment, this is true, but then that’s just the general ribbing that goes with supporting different football teams, surely?

Indeed.

It was you who put that cruel 'Saga' link into a Bolton-related post wasn't it? I still feel the pain....

I'll hold my hands up to the Borgetti headline, but honestly can't recall whether or not I put a Saga link in a Bolton thread. Either way, just take it as retribution for bent linesmen disallowing perfectly good goals

[CrazyHorse]

[blurred]

Er, brevity is wit?

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Er, brevity is wit?

yes

[communistworkethic]

Easy start to the season? Hmmmmmmmm...

LFC

13 Aug, 2005 Middlesbrough Barclays Premiership A 17:15 Y N Y 0-0
20 Aug, 2005 Sunderland Barclays Premiership H 15:00 Y N Y 1-0
10 Sep, 2005 Tottenham Hotspur Barclays Premiership A 15:00 Y N Y 0-0
18 Sep, 2005 Manchester United Barclays Premiership H 12:00 Y N Y 0-0
24 Sep, 2005 Birmingham City Barclays Premiership A 12:45 Y N Y 2-2
02 Oct, 2005 Chelsea Barclays Premiership H 16:00 Y N Y 1-4
15 Oct, 2005 Blackburn Rovers Barclays Premiership H 15:00 Y N Y 1-0
22 Oct, 2005 Fulham Barclays Premiership A 15:00 Y N Y 0-2
29 Oct, 2005 West Ham United Barclays Premiership H 15:00 Y N Y 2-0


BWFC
Aston Villa A D2-2
Everton H L 1-0
Newcastle A W 2-0
West Ham A W 2-1
Blackburn Rovers H D 0-0
Man City A W 1-0
Pompey H W 1-0
Wigan A L 0-1
WBA H W 2-0
Charlton A L 1-5
Tottenham H W1-0


Yeah so much easier start than Liverpool's. So we haven't played Manure, that's it really. Or is it that one extra European game since the start of the season that's made your start so much tougher? When you do a comparison show all the teams. Reasonably be expected to be "in the shak eup", nice general term there - so I suggest Newcastle should reasonably be expect to be there, Charlton would be there or there abouts and so would City ( missing Europe by a hair's breadth last season).

Sunderland, eh? Great example, you'll notice we haven't played them yet but you have, that really shows how much of an easy start we've had.

So I got the Fulham score wrong, a typo nothing more -oddly I don't proof read what I type on here as I spend most of my day doing that with the stuff I'm publishing, and Crouch was suspended not injured, all that shows is that he's not even appeared in all your games. Yes I was aware he was sub too.

My points re Liverpool's position & results was just to illustrate why you would jump in the "little bolton- know your place bandwaggon".

I've seen extended hi-lights of all Liverpool's games this season, now given they really only show the good bits, that should give me an idea of all the good stuff Crouch has done. Yeah he brings something different to your team, he's tall but not the best in the air, doesn't have the pace of Cisse or the skill of Morientes. I don't think he actually adds anything to you.

Chip on shoulder? Hmm from a supporter of a team that basically had the rules of the Champion's League changed because they were crying "but it's not fair, we are the scousers, everybody loves us for our great sense of humour and community spirit, we are so down trodden, do it for the dockers and the baby chicken, ah aye la" all summer, that's a bit rich.

And to quote me, "Fancy quotes from those much wiser than you don't make you intelligent, they make you someone who can read a book but can't think of much insightful themselves."