You take the high road...

[Bruce Rioja]

I really do have mixed feelings about this. If I'd been living in Scotland I'd definitely have voted 'yes'.

But, selfishly, I really wanted to keep those 41 Labour MPs in the House of Commons.

I note the Tories and others are, ironically, getting into a lather about constitutional reform in the rest of the UK. I think the debate has to be held.

But I don't think our politicians have the right to take the decision. That HAS to go to an English referendum if there is any question of anything like an 'English Parliament' being mooted. And that means it can't take place at the same time as the changes promised to the Scots before the referendum. Cameron needs to be stopped if he tries to insist on this.

Was there a referendum in Wales on the formation of the Welsh Assembly or in Scotland on the Scottish Parliament? Maybe I'm missing the point. If I am then I'd be grateful for clarification.

[thebish]

I really do have mixed feelings about this. If I'd been living in Scotland I'd definitely have voted 'yes'.

But, selfishly, I really wanted to keep those 41 Labour MPs in the House of Commons.

I note the Tories and others are, ironically, getting into a lather about constitutional reform in the rest of the UK. I think the debate has to be held.

But I don't think our politicians have the right to take the decision. That HAS to go to an English referendum if there is any question of anything like an 'English Parliament' being mooted. And that means it can't take place at the same time as the changes promised to the Scots before the referendum. Cameron needs to be stopped if he tries to insist on this.

Was there a referendum in Wales on the formation of the Welsh Assembly or in Scotland on the Scottish Parliament? Maybe I'm missing the point. If I am then I'd be grateful for clarification.

yes - there was... both in 1997

[Little Green Man]

or in Scotland on the Scottish Parliament?

There was one vote for Yes/No for a parliament and one for Yes/No for a parliament with tax raising powers. I voted Yes and No (as I couldn't vote Yes and No, not until you can show me you can make it work).

[bobo the clown]

Was there a referendum in Wales on the formation of the Welsh Assembly or in Scotland on the Scottish Parliament? Maybe I'm missing the point. If I am then I'd be grateful for clarification.

There was indeed. It was arranged so that it was a few weeks after the Scotchish one ... planned to piggy-back their acceptance. It was supported and pushed for by Plaid, naturally, by Labour and the Liberals. The Welsh media were all over it - press, radio & TV. No end of bollox was spouted and it won a 'Yes' by something like 50.3% - 49.7%

Support came from the Welsh language areas and the valleys. The border counties AND Cardiff voted against. Only weeks after the vote Ron 'the Cottager' Davies, who led the 'Yes' campaign was arrested as a public toilet furtler. That would, honestly, have cost them that 0.6%

It's been a joke since it began and will continue to be one.

Just my unbiased opinion that last bit btw. .................... well, mine and a good part of Wales.

[thebish]

hence Welshie politicians scrabbling about now for summat to say about what they might want in this new UK with awesome devolved superpowers for everyone... they haven't a clue - except for - oh - can we have some more money... they don't want any more powers - not (I suspect) do the English regions...

same goes for NornIron - they can't manage the powers they DO have - what with being at each others throats all day - they certainly can't handle any more - if we handed more powers over, absolutely nothing would ever get done...

[Hoboh]

Now, will the one trick Donkey and his Mare resign, after all they had one policy, destroy the UK and failed!

Anyone want 6 numbers for tomorrows lottery, 10% fee

[bobo the clown]

It's very early days and a lot more will come out no doubt concerning the bullying and intimidating tactics employed in this campaign.

Watching Spillar lose it last week and tell businesses and institutions which didn't appear friendly that they could expect rough treatment once independence was won was revealing .... threatening people who dared express their opinion with their business being ostracised and even nationalised was the real face of what was to come had they won. The schoolyard stances of "we'll do what we want and you can't stop us" and "we'll not pay our debts if you don't let us have our way" were pathetic and immature.

The Salmon's remark yesterday that it was over "for now" is far from surprising. Would that phrase have been used if they'd won. Of course not.

I read today that for the resignation press conference the Telegraph, Express, Mail were all barred and the Guardian were told which reporter they could send ... so declined to attend. After the demonstration outside the BBC last weekend and the orchestrated shouting down of public speakers who dared not to be pro independence throughout the final months of the campaign i really dread to think what would have been done if the decision had gone the other route.

A friend from Glasgow said the mood and the intimidation were like nothing he'd seen since he served his apprenticeship in the Belfast shipyards in the 1960's. We are not too far off another election campaign. I fear this isn't over yet.

[Hoboh]

This line of thinking is not unusual in Scotland, don't forget the Union bully gangs turning up at bosses homes!

[Little Green Man]

A friend from Glasgow said the mood and the intimidation were like nothing he'd seen since he served his apprenticeship in the Belfast shipyards in the 1960's. We are not too far off another election campaign. I fear this isn't over yet.

You might find that's just a little local difficulty where the fans from a certain football team are taking their first opportunity for quite a while to lord it over the fans from another certain team.

[Worthy4England]

I really do have mixed feelings about this. If I'd been living in Scotland I'd definitely have voted 'yes'.

But, selfishly, I really wanted to keep those 41 Labour MPs in the House of Commons.

I note the Tories and others are, ironically, getting into a lather about constitutional reform in the rest of the UK. I think the debate has to be held.

But I don't think our politicians have the right to take the decision. That HAS to go to an English referendum if there is any question of anything like an 'English Parliament' being mooted. And that means it can't take place at the same time as the changes promised to the Scots before the referendum. Cameron needs to be stopped if he tries to insist on this.

Indeed, the Welsh and Irish both said they want the same as whatever the Scots get, so the West Lothian question comes into sharper focus.

I think the only reason that it probably won't come to a referendum is that the UK parliament already has the power(s) that the others are requesting...

[bobo the clown]

↑↑↑ but does the UK Parliament currently have the power to only have English, or English & Welsh votes on some matters ?

[bobo the clown]

A friend from Glasgow said the mood and the intimidation were like nothing he'd seen since he served his apprenticeship in the Belfast shipyards in the 1960's. We are not too far off another election campaign. I fear this isn't over yet.

You might find that's just a little local difficulty where the fans from a certain football team are taking their first opportunity for quite a while to lord it over the fans from another certain team.

That could well have something to do with it but he's lived there 50 years and I'd expect he can distinguish this from the normal rivalry.

[Worthy4England]

↑↑↑ but does the UK Parliament currently have the power to only have English, or English & Welsh votes on some matters ?

No, it doesn't. Which is what the West Lothian question was about.

[bobo the clown]

↑↑↑ but does the UK Parliament currently have the power to only have English, or English & Welsh votes on some matters ?

No, it doesn't. Which is what the West Lothian question was about.

I thought you were suggesting it wasn't necessary to distinguish and they could do this without any steps being required. My apologies.

[thebish]

Indeed, the Welsh and Irish both said they want the same as whatever the Scots get, so the West Lothian question comes into sharper focus.

they may mutter quietly that they do - but I'm not sure they actually do... what the welsh want is more money - I don't get the impression they want any more responsibility!!

I've heard some say they want the same offer even if they don't choose to take it up! (code for - we can't handle the responsibility we already have never mind any more, thanks! and we don't want to lose the option of blaming the english for governing us - even though we don't REALLY want to do it for ourselves...)

[thebish]

these "English matters" that cameron wants English politicians to vote for... what do people think they actually are in practice?

and - would that mean that London MPs couldn't vote on matters do do with transport in the rest of the UK given that most London Transport issues are devolved to London and are not voted on by (say) Sheffield MPs?

[TANGODANCER]

Honour Blackman on Sean Connery and his knighthood after she turned down a C.B.E:

‘Since I’m a republican I thought it would be somewhat hypocritical to pop up to the Palace.‘Not like Sean (Connery), who accepts a knighthood but never comes here, doesn’t pay tax here and supported a yes vote in the referendum.’ A sigh. ‘But I don’t think he thinks deeply about politics.’

[mrplow]

Indeed, the Welsh and Irish both said they want the same as whatever the Scots get, so the West Lothian question comes into sharper focus.

they may mutter quietly that they do - but I'm not sure they actually do... what the welsh want is more money - I don't get the impression they want any more responsibility!!

I've heard some say they want the same offer even if they don't choose to take it up! (code for - we can't handle the responsibility we already have never mind any more, thanks! and we don't want to lose the option of blaming the english for governing us - even though we don't REALLY want to do it for ourselves...)

Out of curiosity, are you basing that opinion on anything in particular, or just guessing ?

[thebish]

Indeed, the Welsh and Irish both said they want the same as whatever the Scots get, so the West Lothian question comes into sharper focus.

they may mutter quietly that they do - but I'm not sure they actually do... what the welsh want is more money - I don't get the impression they want any more responsibility!!

I've heard some say they want the same offer even if they don't choose to take it up! (code for - we can't handle the responsibility we already have never mind any more, thanks! and we don't want to lose the option of blaming the english for governing us - even though we don't REALLY want to do it for ourselves...)

Out of curiosity, are you basing that opinion on anything in particular, or just guessing ?

(also - my missus's family are welsh and live in Wales - and that's what they think...)


i'm basing it on a discussion programme I heard the other day in which there were several guests from different political persuasions from Wales and NornIron - asked what further devolution they thought they wanted in response to the further powers likely to be offered to scotland.

[mrplow]

Indeed, the Welsh and Irish both said they want the same as whatever the Scots get, so the West Lothian question comes into sharper focus.

they may mutter quietly that they do - but I'm not sure they actually do... what the welsh want is more money - I don't get the impression they want any more responsibility!!

I've heard some say they want the same offer even if they don't choose to take it up! (code for - we can't handle the responsibility we already have never mind any more, thanks! and we don't want to lose the option of blaming the english for governing us - even though we don't REALLY want to do it for ourselves...)

Out of curiosity, are you basing that opinion on anything in particular, or just guessing ?

(also - my missus's family are welsh and live in Wales - and that's what they think...)


i'm basing it on a discussion programme I heard the other day in which there were several guests from different political persuasions from Wales and NornIron - asked what further devolution they thought they wanted in response to the further powers likely to be offered to scotland.

OK. I think that the Welsh Assembly have laid out what they see as the future of Devolution in their submissions to the Silk Commission. It's not just money and no extra responsibility, although your wife's family may see it differently.