The Politics Thread

[Worthy4England]

We've tried "encouragement," for development. They don't care they need "stick" not "carrot"

They don't want to build social housing. It's not where the profit is. And there are too few large scale housebuilders which make it a cartel and they throttle build out rates where shit is less profitable. Put too many restrictions around what you could do on a plot and they'll leave it be or use viability assessments to show it's not profitable.

We could try and make it exclusively "first time buyers" but then you probably have to cap total cost to what local markets can afford.

For me, the answer has to be targeted legislative intervention. I think we should link building commitments between less profitable and more profitable sites...sorta "build two of these things here and in return (after you've completed them) you'll get one big shiny thing over there"

As for the "timebomb," I'd take some convincing at a 1k per sq m build cost for new, that most houses couldn't be made pretty darn good on a similar level of budget, and then you don't have additional land cost nor developer profits... so I'd need a fair bit more convincing...

[BWFC_Insane]

We've tried "encouragement," for development. They don't care they need "stick" not "carrot"

They don't want to build social housing. It's not where the profit is. And there are too few large scale housebuilders which make it a cartel and they throttle build out rates where shit is less profitable. Put too many restrictions around what you could do on a plot and they'll leave it be or use viability assessments to show it's not profitable.

We could try and make it exclusively "first time buyers" but then you probably have to cap total cost to what local markets can afford.

For me, the answer has to be targeted legislative intervention. I think we should link building commitments between less profitable and more profitable sites...sorta "build two of these things here and in return (after you've completed them) you'll get one big shiny thing over there"

As for the "timebomb," I'd take some convincing at a 1k per sq m build cost for new, that most houses couldn't be made pretty darn good on a similar level of budget, and then you don't have additional land cost nor developer profits... so I'd need a fair bit more convincing...

Given that to replace a boiler with a heat pump you need modern insulated cavity walls, full loft insulation and underfloor heating the reality is you don’t need to go very far to see rows and rows of houses that simply were never built to be air tight, can’t be sufficiently insulated and don’t have suitable outside space for a heat pump install…


That’s only a singular issue too. Before we get to stuff like EV charging and the like.

I’m not suggesting that there is a total cost of replacing ever house with a new one that is lower than conversion. I’m saying that there is a lot of our housing stock that is simply not going to be possible to convert so we will end up with awful interim measures. So over time we may need to phase some of that stock out and replace it…clearly not all. But I’ve seen initial schemes where the estimated costs to convert to heat pumps per house were 5-6 times those estimates…and indeed many of those properties would not meet the criteria even if someone could pony up the money…

[Worthy4England]

All relevant considerations and a more nuanced conversation, but it's still not leading me to change the view that fundamentally, we should not be concreting over large amounts of greenbelt and flood filling the markert with houses as a mechanism for trying to reduce price...

[Prufrock]

This is all well and good but misses the much cleaner and simpler solution of landlords + walls + bullets.

[Worthy4England]

This is all well and good but misses the much cleaner and simpler solution of landlords + walls + bullets.

Not only that, many of the "free market" stories were around everyone scrabbling to the lowest possible price points for consumers. In large markets (utilities etc.) they then allowed a load of merger and acquisition activity where they operate as cartels. And on other markets such as rental accommodation, all the information is out there, so effectively the market price becomes normalised.

It's fcuked in the head.

[BWFC_Insane]

This is all well and good but misses the much cleaner and simpler solution of landlords + walls + bullets.

Not only that, many of the "free market" stories were around everyone scrabbling to the lowest possible price points for consumers. In large markets (utilities etc.) they then allowed a load of merger and acquisition activity where they operate as cartels. And on other markets such as rental accommodation, all the information is out there, so effectively the market price becomes normalised.

It's fcuked in the head.

Quite. Rental market is high demand low supply. Drives the prices up. The problem is as you say they then become normalised because everyone has their expectations set as they peruse local EAs.

The energy 'market' is so broken and dysfunctional its not even real. Companies all compete to sell you 'supply' (in reality they are selling a call centre and/or website) and at best they undercut each other out of business - and then in the bad times the price is so high that there is no 'competition'. Oh and the market regulator has to shield the companies against consumers....the definition of a broken market.

But then we can't even sensibly nationalise it as its barely profitable at best and the real profits are all the guys that actually 'harvest' or produce energy but they are all multinationals who also hold the small customer facing arm in most cases.

Water is going to be the next problem. I mean it already is if you fancy a swim, but household bills are set to skyrocket.

[TANGODANCER]

How many do you reckon (what percent) of the billions involved in collecting coin and bank account building, actually give one about the state of anything outside their own front doors? England is in a bigger mess then when good King John went galloping around the country collecting taxes.

Hey, indeed, how may in your own street might care about the national status quo? I'm thinking low numbers, but I may be wrong.

[Worthy4England]

How many do you reckon (what percent) of the billions involved in collecting coin and bank account building, actually give one about the state of anything outside their own front doors? England is in a bigger mess then when good King John went galloping around the country collecting taxes.

Hey, indeed, how may in your own street might care about the national status quo? I'm thinking low numbers, but I may be wrong.

Not quite sure I understand the question TD?

[Worthy4England]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-65642974

https://news.sky.com/story/police-peppe ... n-12665534

On another note, this is one of a number of things I've read where police have tasered someone pretty elderly and infirm because they happen to have been holding a knife. Whilst not condoning anyone holding a knife, what the actual fcuk goes through someone's head to comvince them "I'm in mortal danger from this Octa/Nonagenerian who can barely move - better taser them"

[boltonboris]

This Suella Braverman thing - I see they've done a good job of brushing her Rwandan links under the carpet by talking about her speeding fines!

They are the most abhorrent bast&rds on the planet aren't they

[Worthy4England]

This Suella Braverman thing - I see they've done a good job of brushing her Rwandan links under the carpet by talking about her speeding fines!

They are the most abhorrent bast&rds on the planet aren't they

I'm not sure from what I've read, as to how or whether this is a major problem, but it's yet another example of her thinking rules and laws only apply to people who aren't her, and she's the Home Secretary. Just sends the completely wrong message for me.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm glad that we've been able to control our borders now after Brexit and bring net migration down now we are no longer within the EU and their horrible globalis....

Oh...

[Worthy4England]

I'm glad that we've been able to control our borders now after Brexit and bring net migration down now we are no longer within the EU and their horrible globalis....

Oh...

And yet. There appears to be a group think that they were right about Brexit, if only it's key architects over at Reform UK had been in charge. Rather than pretty much everyone else who were or are now, Remainders.

I read Reform's cunning plans "manifesto" which like Kwazikwame is based heavily around growth. But then don't actually explain where the growth will come from outside vague notions that money will magic inwards if we slash taxes...

And some people are happy they're correct.

[BWFC_Insane]

I'm glad that we've been able to control our borders now after Brexit and bring net migration down now we are no longer within the EU and their horrible globalis....

Oh...

And yet. There appears to be a group think that they were right about Brexit, if only it's key architects over at Reform UK had been in charge. Rather than pretty much everyone else who were or are now, Remainders.

I read Reform's cunning plans "manifesto" which like Kwazikwame is based heavily around growth. But then don't actually explain where the growth will come from outside vague notions that money will magic inwards if we slash taxes...

And some people are happy they're correct.

Not very many, and they are all loons.

[Worthy4England]

As for Net Migration, I'm fairly sure we mentioned that leaving the EU wouldn't "solve" the problem...Our economy is based in significant ways on immigration...so let's all shout about boats...

[BWFC_Insane]

As for Net Migration, I'm fairly sure we mentioned that leaving the EU wouldn't "solve" the problem...Our economy is based in significant ways on immigration...so let's all shout about boats...

I mean it’s not so much not ‘solved ’ what was a non existent problem it’s near on tripled it.

As we kept telling them it would.

We have had Brexiteers running the show since 2019. They’ve had everything they wanted - and this is where we are. And they are still trying to blame a fictitious ‘woke blob’. Those that haven’t woken up (and there aren’t many) never will.

[Worthy4England]

FB_IMG_1685124709180.jpg (79.31 KiB) Viewed 9890 times

Glad some folks are adding some fairly verifiable numbers to this shit around the need to concrete greenbelt..

[BWFC_Insane]

^^ Maybe they could fact check what the green belt is…

I’m also curious what their plan is to fill the social housing gap. Could requisition all those empty properties…but I’m not entirely sure how they propose that will happen.

[Worthy4England]

^^ Maybe they could fact check what the green belt is…

I’m also curious what their plan is to fill the social housing gap. Could requisition all those empty properties…but I’m not entirely sure how they propose that will happen.

Why fact check what the greenbelt is? It's defined in NPPF...the reason there's been a shift to "greenfield" is also driven by developers so they could cover the fact they're trying to build all over it (in many cases successfully) and farming land ...what random developer led, made up number are you using for the "social housing gap?"

As an aside, I'm sure all those numbers used have come from standard sources. ONS etc.

[BWFC_Insane]

^^ Maybe they could fact check what the green belt is…

I’m also curious what their plan is to fill the social housing gap. Could requisition all those empty properties…but I’m not entirely sure how they propose that will happen.

Why fact check what the greenbelt is? It's defined in NPPF...the reason there's been a shift to "greenfield" is also driven by developers so they could cover the fact they're trying to build all over it (in many cases successfully) and farming land ...what random developer led, made up number are you using for the "social housing gap?"

As an aside, I'm sure all those numbers used have come from standard sources. ONS etc.

Your graphic claims there are 1.2m social houses needed…