General Chit Chat

[General Mannerheim]

I always wanted to live in London, but when the opportunity finally arrived i was too settled in the North.

Having worked here for a few years now we’ve deliberated about moving down but ultimately decided against it.

It’s a great city, to label it a shithole is the sort of ignorant moronic comment i might have put 2 years ago having only previously visited the tourist spots and football grounds. Its stunning, and you see something new and beautiful every day. I would agree the west end, Soho etc is a bit grubby and overbearing but the city is so vast and diverse ive been blown away by it. It’s also buzzing, I still love the fact you can go out on a Monday or Tuesday night and its grooving like a Saturday night anywhere else in the country.

Alas, the decision not to move is basically the house prices. I’d rather own acres up north than a terraced house down here. I like the idea of the kids growing up in London, but it’d have to be a semi affluent area and that just wouldn’t be affordable. I quite like my lifestyle atm anyway, i have the fabulous big city bachelor life during the week, out most nights doing different things. Then i retire to the northern countryside at the weekends, spend time with the family, take my bike out in the hills, country pubs, watch the wanderers etc.

So let me get this right, labelling it a shithole is ignorant and moronic, whereas labelling it as buzzing and grooving is proof perfect.

I spot from your post that you "always wanted to live in London", so it's fairly likely that your viewpoint is somewhat coloured by this, whereas there isn't anything I could immediately think of that anyone could give me that'd make me want to live there (or in fairness most other cities).

pointless arguement. maybe the vocab is questionable but the context is not.

I awlays wanted to 'experience' London in my younger days purely for the social aspect. i worked in Rawtenstall as an apprentice when one day this new partner arrived who had come to settle down after a few years all over the world, he used to say London was the best of all the cities he'd worked and it whet my pallete a bit, i wasnt arsed if it was a shithole or not. This wasnt so much an issue when the opportunity did come about, but was mighty impressed when i arrived.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Depends on the person, shirley. What they want from where they live.

It's got lots of things to do in it. But i dunno, there seems to be a sinisterness and vacuousness about everything that I don't like.

Personally, you couldn't drag me back north fast enough

Exactly. My idea of heaven on earth, or as close to it as you can get in this country would be the wild moors and hills of Scotland. London is almost the exact opposite of that. Plus the place is filthy. I remember walking back fom town instead of doing the usual tube journey - I did that jut the once because the amount of black crap that poured from my nostrils when I blew my nose was staggering.
And it is just a series of villages with terrible transport connections between any two points. and sarf London (London south of the river) is just one vast housing estate. And how anyone can think that living anywhere within a mile of the north circular and still be able to remain sane, well it proves you've already been driven nuts.
So, yes (having lived there) I can state categorically that London is a shithole.

[malcd1]

risked putting a couple of nativity sets on said shelves...

the bigger one is the one that spotty rescued from the raffle last year and very kindly sent to me! it's made of rolled up newspaper straws and balsa wood...

Surely this should now move to the Happy thread?

Then of course to the Angry thread over the weekend.

[Athers]

I'm glad I spent the year I did in London as an intern, but the reality was that it meant living in a very dodgy part of the east end and not being able to afford, well, anything which cost any money.

I could see a potentially good 20s life down there living in somewhere at least decent when you get to earn good money, but when I had the opportunity to move back as a graduate but there was no London weighting to the salary so... didn't.

In London I'm always struck by many streets where there are binbags just left out in the pavement all over the place, guess that helps lead to the dirty image.

[Prufrock]

The sentence 'London is a shithole' requires a special kind of stupidity I can't get my head around. Bits of it are, sure, but it's fecking huge. The area around Regent's Park can't be described as a shithole by anyone! I get that there are mant reasons people dont want to live there, but ' London is a shithole' 'No, where you live is a shithole' is pathetic.

[Worthy4England]

I always wanted to live in London, but when the opportunity finally arrived i was too settled in the North.

Having worked here for a few years now we’ve deliberated about moving down but ultimately decided against it.

It’s a great city, to label it a shithole is the sort of ignorant moronic comment i might have put 2 years ago having only previously visited the tourist spots and football grounds. Its stunning, and you see something new and beautiful every day. I would agree the west end, Soho etc is a bit grubby and overbearing but the city is so vast and diverse ive been blown away by it. It’s also buzzing, I still love the fact you can go out on a Monday or Tuesday night and its grooving like a Saturday night anywhere else in the country.

Alas, the decision not to move is basically the house prices. I’d rather own acres up north than a terraced house down here. I like the idea of the kids growing up in London, but it’d have to be a semi affluent area and that just wouldn’t be affordable. I quite like my lifestyle atm anyway, i have the fabulous big city bachelor life during the week, out most nights doing different things. Then i retire to the northern countryside at the weekends, spend time with the family, take my bike out in the hills, country pubs, watch the wanderers etc.

So let me get this right, labelling it a shithole is ignorant and moronic, whereas labelling it as buzzing and grooving is proof perfect.

I spot from your post that you "always wanted to live in London", so it's fairly likely that your viewpoint is somewhat coloured by this, whereas there isn't anything I could immediately think of that anyone could give me that'd make me want to live there (or in fairness most other cities).

pointless arguement. maybe the vocab is questionable but the context is not.

I awlays wanted to 'experience' London in my younger days purely for the social aspect. i worked in Rawtenstall as an apprentice when one day this new partner arrived who had come to settle down after a few years all over the world, he used to say London was the best of all the cities he'd worked and it whet my pallete a bit, i wasnt arsed if it was a shithole or not. This wasnt so much an issue when the opportunity did come about, but was mighty impressed when i arrived.

Indeed - I lived down there in my 20's - the nightlife was excellent, but as a place, it was still a shithole - think I'm where Kinty is with it, vacuous, often impersonal (not to say I haven't got good friends there) and it does - as an aside - have the highest NO2 air pollution of any European Union Capital.

I've walked down the Serpentine at sun-up on a frosty morning, and thought "this could be another place" - then the wankers woke up and spoiled it.

[William the White]

I think Rome beats it,

I love Rome, but I know native Romans who live in London and tell me that the cultural side of the city is very poor compared to London in terms of live music, theatre and cabaret.

There's no place better than London for theatre, that's for sure, at least if you can afford the prices. Fantastic diversity of live music also - but, for instance, is it as good as New York or Milan for opera? (I know neither of those are capital cities, of course) or Berlin for orchestral music? I'm not into cabaret so I've nothing to go on here.

I'm a big fan of London! Just don't want to live there.

[Worthy4England]

The sentence 'London is a shithole' requires a special kind of stupidity I can't get my head around. Bits of it are, sure, but it's fecking huge. The area around Regent's Park can't be described as a shithole by anyone! I get that there are mant reasons people dont want to live there, but ' London is a shithole' 'No, where you live is a shithole' is pathetic.

What are they teaching the kids these days? The sentence "London is a shithole" is what used to be called a generalisation. People didn't used to try and get their heads around a generalisation, although they might in the days of conversation ask why someone might think that. To try and get your head around a generalisation would clearly also require a special kind of stupidity. It appears using any imagination as to how someone could think differently than others missed the syllabus at some point.

In simple terms, to try and assist. I'm not keen on London. As I said before, it's my "least liked" Capital city that I've been to. I could point to the air pollution, I could point to the over-crowdedness, I could point to the fact that it's never built, I could point to the fact that they're constantly digging all the roads up, I could point to the impersonalness of it, I could point to the shit, flat beer (and yes I know where to get a decent pint in London) or the high prices, I could point to the hard scummy water. I could point to lots of things, but I didn't. I generalised. People sometimes do. Honest. It's not that difficult to imagine.

[Prufrock]

I'm pretty sure saying 'that generalisation you just said is bollocks' is not a new thing.

If it is I'm glad it's been added to the syllabus. Did they genuinely use to teach you lot that if you came out with a sentence that was bollocks you could just say, pipe puffing out of the corner of your mouth, 'ah it was but a generalisation'. Lots of bits of London are goddawful, lots are stunning.

[Worthy4England]

I'm pretty sure saying 'that generalisation you just said is bollocks' is not a new thing.

If it is I'm glad it's been added to the syllabus. Did they genuinely use to teach you lot that if you came out with a sentence that was bollocks you could just say, pipe puffing out of the corner of your mouth, 'ah it was but a generalisation'. Lots of bits of London are goddawful, lots are stunning.

I guess you missed any of the posts, that had some "qualifiers" I made, prior to the generalisation you picked up on then. I'm sure too that saying "a generalisation is bollocks" isn't new, but I had added some stuff before it, and some stuff after it. Maybe, it's just the picking up of a specific generalisation in the middle of a stream of posts, and shouting "burn the heretic" in some sort of Jeremy Kyle show, hissy fit, is the bit that's new.

I've never found any shortage of things to do where I live - and given that there's only so much "free time" to do things anyhow, can't see why that would make anywhere "better" than where I live.

I mean, really? How many museums, art galleries and the likes would you need, if you only visit them once a year maybe?

Restaurants? We have more than I'll ever visit in Manchester.

Parks - nice touch in amongst the smog, roadworks and cyclists.

Of all the Capitals I've visited, London is by far and away the biggest shithole of the lot

That last bit, is called an opinion. It's mine to keep. Oh look, I mentioned Parks...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I think Rome beats it,

I love Rome, but I know native Romans who live in London and tell me that the cultural side of the city is very poor compared to London in terms of live music, theatre and cabaret.

There's no place better than London for theatre, that's for sure, at least if you can afford the prices. Fantastic diversity of live music also - but, for instance, is it as good as New York or Milan for opera? (I know neither of those are capital cities, of course) or Berlin for orchestral music? I'm not into cabaret so I've nothing to go on here.

I'm a big fan of London! Just don't want to live there.

The interesting comparison for me was Rome which is, by some accounts, a bit of a cultural wasteland! (As ridiculous as that sounds at first hearing...)

[William the White]

I think Rome beats it,

I love Rome, but I know native Romans who live in London and tell me that the cultural side of the city is very poor compared to London in terms of live music, theatre and cabaret.

There's no place better than London for theatre, that's for sure, at least if you can afford the prices. Fantastic diversity of live music also - but, for instance, is it as good as New York or Milan for opera? (I know neither of those are capital cities, of course) or Berlin for orchestral music? I'm not into cabaret so I've nothing to go on here.

I'm a big fan of London! Just don't want to live there.

The interesting comparison for me was Rome which is, by some accounts, a bit of a cultural wasteland! (As ridiculous as that sounds at first hearing...)

Yes, I have to admit that it's architecture and visual art, especially painting, that has me rapt in Rome, along with food and wine and some mysterious sense of 'life' that seems a little more truly lived than in london. I've not pursued performing arts at all - so bow to the superior knowledge of your friends...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Yes, I have to admit that it's architecture and visual art, especially painting, that has me rapt in Rome, along with food and wine and some mysterious sense of 'life' that seems a little more truly lived than in london. I've not pursued performing arts at all - so bow to the superior knowledge of your friends...

I have this fantasy too - and despite my comments, I'd love to live there for a while!

Have you seen 'La Grande Bellezza'?

[Prufrock]

I'm pretty sure saying 'that generalisation you just said is bollocks' is not a new thing.

If it is I'm glad it's been added to the syllabus. Did they genuinely use to teach you lot that if you came out with a sentence that was bollocks you could just say, pipe puffing out of the corner of your mouth, 'ah it was but a generalisation'. Lots of bits of London are goddawful, lots are stunning.

I guess you missed any of the posts, that had some "qualifiers" I made, prior to the generalisation you picked up on then. I'm sure too that saying "a generalisation is bollocks" isn't new, but I had added some stuff before it, and some stuff after it. Maybe, it's just the picking up of a specific generalisation in the middle of a stream of posts, and shouting "burn the heretic" in some sort of Jeremy Kyle show, hissy fit, is the bit that's new.

I've never found any shortage of things to do where I live - and given that there's only so much "free time" to do things anyhow, can't see why that would make anywhere "better" than where I live.

I mean, really? How many museums, art galleries and the likes would you need, if you only visit them once a year maybe?

Restaurants? We have more than I'll ever visit in Manchester.

Parks - nice touch in amongst the smog, roadworks and cyclists.

Of all the Capitals I've visited, London is by far and away the biggest shithole of the lot

That last bit, is called an opinion. It's mine to keep. Oh look, I mentioned Parks...

If you go back to the beginning of this exchange, you'll find you quoted me, not me you. I wasn't talking about you specifically. You weren't the only person to say 'London is a shithole'. Plenty did that without the qualifiers.

I wasn't adressing anyone in particular, but talking about the idea of dismissing a place as wide and varied as London as simply being a shithole being a stupid one. What I was doing was making what my generation like to call a generalisation.

[William the White]

Yes, I have to admit that it's architecture and visual art, especially painting, that has me rapt in Rome, along with food and wine and some mysterious sense of 'life' that seems a little more truly lived than in london. I've not pursued performing arts at all - so bow to the superior knowledge of your friends...

I have this fantasy too - and despite my comments, I'd love to live there for a while!

Have you seen 'La Grande Bellezza'?

I clocked it when it was at the Cornerhouse but didn't see it. I know you rate it and will certainly catch it at some time...

To provide a contrast, it wasn't a capital city when I was there, but it is now - Juba in South Sudan is the most deprived city I have ever seen - a place of hunger, of want, of children watching you eat in a cafe then running to grab your leftovers, families living beneath trees - in the Equatorial rain forest, beggars crippled by leprosy, malaria, but mostly hunger, and hunger again. I have a friend who was in charge of the Oxfam operation in South Sudan, who came home after two years and had a nervous breakdown. He said it was like running a death camp.

I thought of Juba today because of news of an attempted coup in south Sudan and the new nation's near collapse into civil war. My heart breaks for Sudan - Islamic fundamentalists in government, ethnic war in the West, and in the new nation of the south tribal warfare.

[Worthy4England]

Good, that's ok then. London is a shithole.

[thebish]

Surely this should now move to the Happy thread?

Then of course to the Angry thread over the weekend.

I see what you did there!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Generally then, some of us find London is a shithole, and some others of us find ourselves thinking that those within that band of brothers are both fools and moronic knaves. There, sorted.

[boltonboris]

What about us inbetweeners who think that Worthy IS a moron, but thinks London ISN'T a shithole?

[William the White]

Good, that's ok then. London is a shithole.

There are mules of great and obdurate age who have learned after years of trial and error that there is one stubborn bastard you should not start an argument with...