Muslims, racists, individuals and attitudes.

[Bijou Bob]

I'm presuming by the same standard then Boris / MalcD, that the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church means that Christianity is a religion of bigoted, homophobic, intolerant zealots and that Judaism is the religion of sex offenders, given their proclivity for mutilating the sexual organs of their male children?

[boltonboris]

I'm presuming by the same standard then Boris / MalcD, that the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church means that Christianity is a religion of bigoted, homophobic, intolerant zealots and that Judaism is the religion of sex offenders, given their proclivity for mutilating the sexual organs of their male children?

How many members of the Westboro Baptist Church are there?

But yes... And yes.

I follow neither/none

[Worthy4England]

And people march the streets here in protest.. Do you see the same from the 'muslim community'?

yes. often. they have marches and are on the marches that you describe.

there was one in London, for instance, back in December... you may not have heard about it because they are very rarely given any media mention at all. But if a handful of muslims demonstrate in a small village about poppies... then they get blanket media coverage for days/weeks...

Thousands of people took part in the annual UK Arbaeen Procession, coordinated by the Husaini Islamic Trust UK, on Sunday.

Although Shia Muslims take part in the march each year to mark the Arbaeen, or mourning, anniversary of Imam Husain - a seventh-century leader who fought for social justice - this year organisers decided to use the event as a platform to denounce terrorism following the recent Isis attacks in Paris, Beirut and elsewhere.

Organiser Waqar Haider said: "This year we had hundreds of placards which were basically saying ‘no’ to terrorism and ‘no’ to Isis. A very direct message.

"For us it was a controversial move to go political. Normally we don’t mix politics with mourning. However with what's happened recently, we thought we had to make sure we as a community totally disassociate ourselves with what's happening elsewhere in the world."

Despite this, Mr Haider said the demonstration still failed to garner any attention in the mainstream media.

"It is the oldest annual Muslim event in London but unfortunately it is very difficult to get any media coverage," he said.

They have the evil Q'ran to brainwash idiots. We just use the Murdoch press.

[boltonboris]

No, because most of them don' associate themselves with being terrorists. I have no idea whether you joined any of those marches. If you didn't does that mean you were ok with it?

When their was a show of solidarity in capital cities after Bataclan, how many muslims were on those because they identified with being French or British rather than terrorists? Maybe we should number them to make them easier to count.

Well it might tighten security

[Worthy4England]

Good point!

[Hoboh]

Hang on.

Did one of those placards really say;

Islam promotes human rights!!!

[malcd1]

I'm presuming by the same standard then Boris / MalcD, that the actions of the Westboro Baptist Church means that Christianity is a religion of bigoted, homophobic, intolerant zealots and that Judaism is the religion of sex offenders, given their proclivity for mutilating the sexual organs of their male children?

If anyone lived their life exactly as the Old Testament shows then we would be in a similar place as we are with the Islamic terrorist. The god of the Old Testament carried out indiscriminate massacre of whole cities and nations because he was displeased with their life choices. In real life he would be called a vindictive, bloodthirsty killer.

I would quite happily see the end of all religion especially the Catholic Church. The way they have both physically and sexually abused children for generations is a disgrace. It has then been cover up after cover up from the very top. Moving paedophiles on to different areas and countries while paying hush money or intimidation to keep things quiet.

Saying all that, how many suicide attacks have been carried out in the name of the Catholic Church or Christianity this year? The Westboro Baptiste Church congregation are without doubt all arseholes but do they indiscriminately murder people because they don't attend their church?

[Worthy4England]

Historically the Catholic church has a pretty good track record of slaughter. You can try banning religion but you're not going to stop me being a non-practising Catholic. That's my freedom of choice. You might have the opposite effect and start me practising again if you ban it. The USSR managed a pretty good job of telling people how to think without resorting to a religious book. As does China and North Korea. Fortunately we've not bombed any of those places recently, because we're fairly clear that none of them would necessarily need to resort to terrorist tactics. They have big pointy sticks like we do.

[Prufrock]

The problem you have is that every time you come on here after an act of Islamic terrorism and mock the idea, unprompted, that Islam is "the religion of peace" (and when was the last time you heard anyone say that who wasn't doing so to contradict it), you imply something further. You seem to be saying that Islam is a "religion of violence"...?

Do you watch the news?

You're assigning agency to things that don't have it. "Islam" isn't a religion of anything. It's a term that hangs together a whole range of views that all share some very basic tenets about Mohammed and Allah but otherwise vary hugely. Abu al-Bagdhadi is Muslim, but so is my mate Sakib who drinks (but doesn't eat bacon - he picks and chooses like a Christian who eats pork or wears clothes of different cloths)

I don't think my views on religion are a secret, I think the appropriation of morality and justice from the realm of man to some unknowable celestial being is both wrong and dangerous. But I don't know what a sentence like "Islam is a religion of violence" is supposed to mean.

You might specifically mean the writings, but they're no more nuts than those of Christianity and Judaisim. We happen historically to be at a point where the most deliberate fundamentalism is Islamic, but it's not always been the case. There's nothing inherent in Islam that makes it more likely to create nutters, we just happen at this point to have a combination of religious belief with many other factors that mean it's the current wrong 'un.

[Hoboh]

The problem you have is that every time you come on here after an act of Islamic terrorism and mock the idea, unprompted, that Islam is "the religion of peace" (and when was the last time you heard anyone say that who wasn't doing so to contradict it), you imply something further. You seem to be saying that Islam is a "religion of violence"...?

Do you watch the news?

You're assigning agency to things that don't have it. "Islam" isn't a religion of anything. It's a term that hangs together a whole range of views that all share some very basic tenets about Mohammed and Allah but otherwise vary hugely. Abu al-Bagdhadi is Muslim, but so is my mate Sakib who drinks (but doesn't eat bacon - he picks and chooses like a Christian who eats pork or wears clothes of different cloths)

I don't think my views on religion are a secret, I think the appropriation of morality and justice from the realm of man to some unknowable celestial being is both wrong and dangerous. But I don't know what a sentence like "Islam is a religion of violence" is supposed to mean.

You might specifically mean the writings, but they're no more nuts than those of Christianity and Judaisim. We happen historically to be at a point where the most deliberate fundamentalism is Islamic, but it's not always been the case. There's nothing inherent in Islam that makes it more likely to create nutters, we just happen at this point to have a combination of religious belief with many other factors that mean it's the current wrong 'un.

Bravo young 'un, a touch of sense for once

[Hoboh]

Historically the Catholic church has a pretty good track record of slaughter. You can try banning religion but you're not going to stop me being a non-practising Catholic. That's my freedom of choice. You might have the opposite effect and start me practising again if you ban it. The USSR managed a pretty good job of telling people how to think without resorting to a religious book. As does China and North Korea. Fortunately we've not bombed any of those places recently, because we're fairly clear that none of them would necessarily need to resort to terrorist tactics. They have big pointy sticks like we do.

Blimey we have more in common than supporting BWFC than I thought, never catch me in a poser car though

[Worthy4England]

Aye that's coz you're too busy picking your bike outta the ditch.

[Hoboh]

Aye that's coz you're too busy picking your bike outta the ditch.

Back in the nineties when I was driving trucks, you would not believe the number of BMW's up the banking or on the hard shoulder during snowy, icy times on the M6 Scotland bound.
Between Lancaster and Penrith one morning I counted 5, now they were merely posers who couldn't drive or the motors had some serious stability problems and I know which it was

[Worthy4England]

I'll lend you my low profile tyres for your bike next time it's snowy. Let's see how far you get.

[Hoboh]

I'll lend you my low profile tyres for your bike next time it's snowy. Let's see how far you get.

The ones on mine ain't too clever tbh, I'm seriously considering a 4x4 next year but diesel is the best options and I fear with all the bad publicity sooner or later I'd end up paying through the nose for that, I do wish they'd get some decent range on the electric cars, for what I do now I'd have one.

[bobo the clown]

Aye that's coz you're too busy picking your bike outta the ditch.

Back in the nineties when I was driving trucks, you would not believe the number of BMW's up the banking or on the hard shoulder during snowy, icy times on the M6 Scotland bound.
Between Lancaster and Penrith one morning I counted 5, now they were merely posers who couldn't drive or the motors had some serious stability problems and I know which it was

But Beemers and Merc's are renowned for being tricky on icy surfaces (though yer ACTUAL M6 should have been clear of it I guess).

Odd for high quality cars made in a country no-stranger to ice & snow, but there you go.

[Hoboh]

Aye that's coz you're too busy picking your bike outta the ditch.

Back in the nineties when I was driving trucks, you would not believe the number of BMW's up the banking or on the hard shoulder during snowy, icy times on the M6 Scotland bound.
Between Lancaster and Penrith one morning I counted 5, now they were merely posers who couldn't drive or the motors had some serious stability problems and I know which it was

But Beemers and Merc's are renowned for being tricky on icy surfaces (though yer ACTUAL M6 should have been clear of it I guess).

Odd for high quality cars made in a country no-stranger to ice & snow, but there you go.

One lane just about passable at 4.30am, how the hell they skidded off that was bemusing tbf.

[Worthy4England]

The handling isn't a problem with mine. Getting it to go from stopped (even up a slight incline) with low profile tyres on it just doesn't happen..Half an inch of snow plenty sufficient. Well that's my excuse for work from home day, anyhow.

[Bijou Bob]

Snow or no snow.....I miss my CLK....sniff.......stifled sob.....and my heated seats, my lovely heated seats.......

[Hoboh]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... t-80893322" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Presumably the insurers are just reflecting the actual risk as opposed to just adding extra cost for the fun of it. The reality is that young South Asian lads do seem to be involved with a disproportional amount of bad car accidents caused by dangerous driving especially when they get behind the wheel of Audi's.

Plus there is the issue of these cash for crash scams which are mostly caused by a certain sector of society who tend to live in certain areas.

This is not far off the mark, the local police were once asked about the proportion of ethnic drivers involved in car accidents and replied they didn't keep such statistics.

This led to rumours about the figures showing a disproportional % of accidents taken against the % size of population by ethnic groups.

Given that the largest number of private taxi hire drivers are from ethnic groups, it is not a leap into the dark to wonder why these figures are high.