European Second Referendum

[Bruce Rioja]

Ahhhhhhh. Cheers, chaps.

[BWFC_Insane]

Does May’s deal now get a third go in the Commons? Now ‘no deal’ has clearly been shown to be unpopular, do the DUP and ERG rally behind May as their best option to get a Brexit, rather than risk election or second referendum?

She’s bringing it back by 20th apparently....

[jimbo]

Does May’s deal now get a third go in the Commons? Now ‘no deal’ has clearly been shown to be unpopular, do the DUP and ERG rally behind May as their best option to get a Brexit, rather than risk election or second referendum?

She’s bringing it back by 20th apparently....

If the DUP and ERG voted against the plan in the hope of a no deal that has now effectively been ruled out, as has the Maltloaf jobby, do they then move behind May as the fast track to Brexit?

[BWFC_Insane]

Does May’s deal now get a third go in the Commons? Now ‘no deal’ has clearly been shown to be unpopular, do the DUP and ERG rally behind May as their best option to get a Brexit, rather than risk election or second referendum?

She’s bringing it back by 20th apparently....

If the DUP and ERG voted against the plan in the hope of a no deal that has now effectively been ruled out, as has the Maltloaf jobby, do they then move behind May as the fast track to Brexit?

God only knows. I have no idea what they’ll do anymore. Seems logical. They are saying no, or at least some are.

Seems regardless government plan to ask for an extension of Article 50 till June if deal does pass. Literally anything can happen tomorrow - whole parliament has more or less collapsed.

I’m betting we are heading to general election territory at a pace here.

[Harry Genshaw]

Bizarre that May says a 40 vote margin is an overwhelming rejection of leaving without a deal and is now planning a 3rd attempt to get her deal through, which has been rejected twice by over a 150 votes.

When does dogged and determined become dangerous and delusional?

[BWFC_Insane]

Bizarre that May says a 40 vote margin is an overwhelming rejection of leaving without a deal and is now planning a 3rd attempt to get her deal through, which has been rejected twice by over a 150 votes.

When does dogged and determined become dangerous and delusional?

I’m no defender of hers and she’s brought this on herself......but....

What would you have her do? She can’t get an extension without a reason. So if her deal is agreed she can ask for an extension for a few months to implement it. If it isn’t agreed it clearly needs a longer delay BUT unless we can tell the EU what we will do with that delay they won’t give it us. And what is there a clear and easy majority for? I’d say probably Labours plan is the only thing that MIGHT get a majority BUT it probably won’t do that in a week given it would need the government to adopt it and brand it to bring their own MPs onside.

And given May has an instruction from MPs not to leave with no deal, If the EU won’t extend then technically that leaves her with revoking A50 if no deal can be agreed. And clearly that is not something to do without public consent but then that would need a long extension....

She’s stuck every way. She has tried to ignore parliament but that hasn’t worked and half her ministers are now backing parliament over her. So she has to listen to parliament whilst trying to balance that against the EU views and of course the referendum result.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Bizarre that May says a 40 vote margin is an overwhelming rejection of leaving without a deal and is now planning a 3rd attempt to get her deal through, which has been rejected twice by over a 150 votes.

When does dogged and determined become dangerous and delusional?

The mother of parliaments blazed a trail for other democratic countries for centuries. Now you've become a joke, Harry, showing the non-functional face of democracy. In Canada we turn our uncomprehending faces from Trump's America to the mother country for inspiration, but there is none to be seen. God, Brexit is a mess.

[Harry Genshaw]

Since the country voted leave and there's a far greater appetite amongst MPs to leave with no deal, than there is for her deal, she may as well work towards overturning those 40 votes?

Monty - Private Eye summed it up a while back with a readers poll. 'Is the Nation divided?' 50% voted yes and 50% voted no!

[BWFC_Insane]

Since the country voted leave and there's a far greater appetite amongst MPs to leave with no deal, than there is for her deal, she may as well work towards overturning those 40 votes?

Monty - Private Eye summed it up a while back with a readers poll. 'Is the Nation divided?' 50% voted yes and 50% voted no!

That isn't the case though. Sorry. The numbers last night aren't reflective of true parliamentary opinion given the government whipped their MPs and you had the bizarre situation where May voted against her own amended motion in the end - even though she tabled a motion taking no deal out of play for 29th March.

I want to remain but I realise there isn't political will (or enough of it) to either revoke A50 outright or have another vote.

So given we are where we are, what is a viable compromise? Because one has to be found. No deal clearly doesn't have support. Nor does revoking or a 2nd referendum.

Realistically as much as I absolutely hate this - there are only three options that we can actually pursue - May's deal, revoke, no deal. Possibly a different deal could be sought but in the time we've got? Even if the delay till the end of June goes through and is accepted that isn't enough time to do this and guarantee it passing.

And I would say that of those three options revocation whilst I'd love that to happen and firmly believe that would be the best option for the country I have to accept it isn't going to happen.

Nether is no deal other than by some horrific accidental default....

So what is the compromise? May's deal? I hate it, but I'm coming to the view that there is no other real option. If Brexiteers refuse to vote for it they risk pushing things towards no Brexit ever. If remainers refuse to vote for it they risk and accidental no deal Brexit.

The reality of all this has to kick in. May and the Tories have been so absolutely horrific that we now no longer have a functioning government. In all normal circumstances this would be general election time - but what would that solve? It might deliver a majority but equally I could see it becoming even worse with the Tories maybe losing a few seats to Lib Dems in remain areas and little else changing. Gridlocked even more.

As much as I hate to say it - in the position we're in - May's deal is the only compromise option that makes everyone unhappy - but at least gives everyone a small amount of what they want. And yes its been roundly defeated twice - but for once May is right - what options are there now to satisfy the will of parliament? Its hard to see beyond her deal. And that makes me incredibly sad to say. But as a pragmatist were I an MP - I'd still fervently believe that the current deal we've got as a member is far, far superior to May's but, I'd probably vote for it now - if she offered a 3rd go. Because pragmatically I don't see what other options there are. And furthermore, I think both sides risk losing everything if they chase either a 2nd referendum or a "no deal" exit dogmatically.

[Bruce Rioja]

Well, if I wasn't so sure as to what's going on before, I sure as hell haven't a fecking scooby now!

[Enoch]

Anyone that thinks they know is clearly deluded.

I'm so angry I might go to the foot of our stairs and jump off.

[Bruce Rioja]

Oh, now it looks like a second referendum might happen after all. I honestly think, given some of the recent rhetoric from Messrs Barnier, Junker and Verhofstatd, that there could well be a greater pro Brexit margin a second time.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 8lyxE3RA_s

[BWFC_Insane]

Oh, now it looks like a second referendum might happen after all. I honestly think, given some of the recent rhetoric from Messrs Barnier, Junker and Verhofstatd, that there could well be a greater pro Brexit margin a second time.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 8lyxE3RA_s

There is no majority for a 2nd referendum in the house today, because neither main party are backing it.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Jesus Christ ...

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Oh, now it looks like a second referendum might happen after all. I honestly think, given some of the recent rhetoric from Messrs Barnier, Junker and Verhofstatd, that there could well be a greater pro Brexit margin a second time.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 8lyxE3RA_s

Those 3 to$$ers make even I lean towards Brexit. That Barroso was one too. When he decided to visit the European Medicines Agency a few years back his security had the building locked out for an hour so none of us could get in to our desks. They forgot about the loading bay though, so I smugly got in anyway

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Tusk, Selmayr, the list goes on....

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Very shadowy, Very elderly, Very white, Very man (not sure about elite) Mr Vince Cable gets as equally stuffed by parliament as Remainer May has been.

And a mere 24 Labour Members of Parliament vote for a second referendum...

[TANGODANCER]

A very naive question,I know, for which I apologise in advance, but who exactly is calling the shots on all this? I mean, this lot we call Parliament/the Government, Lords, Commons etc, are actually, or seem to be, a tidy old crowd of well-paid, well-dressed howlers, objectors, tripe spouters, "order,order" shouters and more ministers of silly everything than Monty Python. A whole army of seat warmers who turn up and somewhere between coffee breaks, lunch breaks, making more cuts in Police, Fire and Ambulance Services all over the country and dashing off early to catch trains etc, don't actually achieve much one way or the other as far as running the country is concerned.?
In short, where's the progress?

[BWFC_Insane]

A very naive question,I know, for which I apologise in advance, but who exactly is calling the shots on all this? I mean, this lot we call Parliament/the Government, Lords, Commons etc, are actually, or seem to be, a tidy old crowd of well-paid, well-dressed howlers, objectors, tripe spouters, "order,order" shouters and more ministers of silly everything than Monty Python. A whole army of seat warmers who turn up and somewhere between coffee breaks, lunch breaks, making more cuts in Police, Fire and Ambulance Services all over the country and dashing off early to catch trains etc, don't actually achieve much one way or the other as far as running the country is concerned.?
In short, where's the progress?

This is who we elected.....

The problem is they cannot agree with each other on anything, it’s got so bad they even disagree with themselves. The Tory Brexit minister today closed the argument for the government encouraging all MPs to vote for the government’s motion to seek a delay to article 50....then he voted against said motion.

Try and work that out....no wonder we are laughing stocks. This is what happens when you rely on majority rule rather than proper consensus politics.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

This is what happens when you rely on majority rule rather than proper consensus politics.

But , but but... They haven't got a fxcking consensus.