Give an inch ... & take a mile (RANT)

[Dujon]

OK, pencil biter, I will admit that if New Zealand, Tonga or The Queen attempted to force me to change my ways I'd get a bit upset, no matter how sensible the idea or result might be.

Nevertheless, practical, pragmatic or 'utilitarian' changes and solutions are not things that one should discard because of some false sense of pride.

Incidentally, the 'sovereign parliament' quip was a bit under the belt. I would happily consent to this country becoming independent, but only if those of my bent come up with a workable alternative. In effect Australia is independent. Those odd occasions when matters must be referred to Her Majesty are usually assented to as a matter of course. Perhaps we should simply declare and effect our cutting of the invisible apron strings and install a mythical, genderless being in place of a monarch.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

OK, pencil biter, I will admit that if New Zealand, Tonga or The Queen attempted to force me to change my ways I'd get a bit upset, no matter how sensible the idea or result might be.

Nevertheless, practical, pragmatic or 'utilitarian' changes and solutions are not things that one should discard because of some false sense of pride.

Incidentally, the 'sovereign parliament' quip was a bit under the belt. I would happily consent to this country becoming independent, but only if those of my bent come up with a workable alternative. In effect Australia is independent. Those odd occasions when matters must be referred to Her Majesty are usually assented to as a matter of course. Perhaps we should simply declare and effect our cutting of the invisible apron strings and install a mythical, genderless being in place of a monarch.

No quip, Dujon - your parliament is independent and sovereign; that the Queen is your titular head is almost an irrelevance (as, frankly, it is here too).

As an aside, the utility of doing everything in tens is overstated, in my opinion (especially when the costs of change are taken into account). And where it is useful to businesses (especially those trading internationally) market forces will dictate that they change anyway. It's only natural that we should take umbrage at Europe's conceit when it thinks we can't be trusted to see the value in a good idea, so it is just imposed on us.

Of course, things would be easier if the Europeans all just adopted English as their first language as well, but I can't see the federalists going for that one, somehow!

[bobo the clown]

the utility of doing everything in tens is overstated ... It's only natural that we should take umbrage at Europe's conceit when it thinks we can't be trusted to see the value in a good idea, so it is just imposed on us.

Of course, things would be easier if the Europeans all just adopted English as their first language as well, but I can't see the federalists going for that one, somehow!

I'd take that as a bargain. All speak English ... officially & I'd be very happy to try & learn their gram's & litres etc.

The utility of decimals falls flat on it's face once you start dividing. Whereas much of the imperial held together when halved, or quartered etc. the decimal units collapse. What's a 1/4 of a kilo ?.... you're rapidly into numbers which don't divide. So the imperial measures were fantastic for people saying they wanted half, or a quarter, or an eigth of something.

Anyway ... all this is bollox. I just don't want to be forced to change by a bunch of control freaks who have persistently failed to even attempt to accept audits on their book-keeping for over 20 years. The EU is a huge, fraudulent, socialaism-by-the-back-door, bureaucracy only interested in its own ends.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Canada went metric quite a while back, while the mother country retained imperial measures and our great neighbours to the south use some 'diet' version of the same (a pint down there might disappoint you). Since we were already a bilingual bicultural country we continue to think in one, the other, or both measures. I still ask for my meat in (half) pounds and the girl just gives me 220 grams without any smart remarks. Oddly, my driving license says I am 185 cms, but I would always give my height as 6' 1". On the other hand we do think of temperature as celsius or centigrade almost all the time. Liquid measure is tricky - petrol comes in litres but beer comes in pints and quarts.

I believe it was in the 1970s you had decimal currency imposed upon you and I imagine the same arguments were heard then. Now few people remember the farthings and threepenny bits (long division with those was a ten aspirin headache). Objectively speaking decimal measures are far easier to learn and use. I know that five and a half yards are one rod, pole or perch - and that four of these are a chain. What I could possibly do with that knowledge I cannot possibly imagine.

Why not make that EU deal, Bobo? You'll accept metric measures and they agree English is the first language. Maybe it will sound as good to them as you.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

Decimal currency wasn't imposed on the country itself though - it was a decision taken by elected Brits.


It's interesting that you Canadians buy your petrol in litres because I was driving a Californian golf buddy around recently, when we stopped for petrol and he said: "I can't believe you guys buy your gas by the litre - I buy Coke by the litre.....".

[Montreal Wanderer]

The utility of decimals falls flat on it's face once you start dividing. Whereas much of the imperial held together when halved, or quartered etc. the decimal units collapse. What's a 1/4 of a kilo ?.... you're rapidly into numbers which don't divide. So the imperial measures were fantastic for people saying they wanted half, or a quarter, or an eigth of something.

A kilo is, by definition, one thousand grams. A quarter of a kilo is, therefore, 250 grams. That is not hard. While I grant you a 12 based system (duo-decimal) can be evenly divided by more whole numbers than a decimal system, this did not give me great comfort as a child. Dividing a dinner bill of 24 pounds, 13 shilling and fourpence halfpenny by seven attendees was a highly complex operation while I could do the decimal equivalent in my head. There are indeed 1760 yards in a mile, but a thousand meters in a kilometer is easier to remember.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

You've no chance of the europeans accepting english. I should know, I work for the bloody EU. Just to work for them you are supposed to speak several languages despite the fact you never use them for work. They then bring in a new law saying you have to speak more of them.

What this means is that if you can speak many languages you get a cushy job. If you can't speak many languages but are extremely capable at doing a job you don't get in. The end result is lots of people that can talk crap in many languages but that don't have a clue what they are doing - this is what is wrong with the EU

[bobo the clown]

.... this is what is wrong with the EU

Plus it's based on fraud.

[InsaneApache]

and corruption.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

and corruption.

Plus it's based on fraud

I don't know about that, I haven't seen anything along those lines at the agency I work in. I would suggest that ludicrous laws and procedures mixed with a huge dose of incompetence is a better description

[Montreal Wanderer]

Decimal currency wasn't imposed on the country itself though - it was a decision taken by elected Brits.

It was still a government imposition - I don't know the new details but doesn't Europe have elected officials - ah well, doesn't matter.

It's interesting that you Canadians buy your petrol in litres because I was driving a Californian golf buddy around recently, when we stopped for petrol and he said: "I can't believe you guys buy your gas by the litre - I buy Coke by the litre.....".

We certainly buy soft drinks by the litre here, but I didn't realize the Americans did. Fuel economy was the hardest translation for me when we went metric going from miles per gallon to litres per hundred kilometers - a totally different concept. For years I would use the onboard computer which measured both (although used the American gallon which is about 80% the imperial gallon). At least metric is standard all over the world.

[bobo the clown]

It was still a government imposition - I don't know the new details but doesn't Europe have elected officials - ah well, doesn't matter ......".

Now you ARE taking the piss !

Yes, a bunch of elected morons who almost no-one votes for.

The real 'law makers' are unelected commisioners who dream up all sorts of shite.

If the public doesn't like what's decided they decide to re-ask the question ... & where they can get away with it simply don't ask, but impose.

The current fiasco concerning the European Constitution is an excellent example.

Germany simply 'ratified' it, as did Belgium. The people were never asked. France & Holland had a referendum where it was rejected (& a number of other countries) ... the apparatchiks took view that it hadn't been rejected as such, just not fully understood. It was the Euro-phile view that it hadn't been radical enough.

Britain cacked itself at having the referendum it had committed to. So they just decided to go last, hoping it would be voted down elsewhere.

Now, it's being decided that they constitution doesn't need public support & it can be re-named as a 'treaty' and so be pushed through without popular access for anyone.

Elected representitives ? Bllx.

[/quote]

[communistworkethic]

Yes, a bunch of elected morons who almost no-one votes for.

and that's different from Parliament how?

[Henrik's fan club]

Yes, a bunch of elected morons who almost no-one votes for.

and that's different from Parliament how?

Because they're dirty Johnny Foreigners don't ya know?

[cowdrill]

Yes, a bunch of elected morons who almost no-one votes for.

and that's different from Parliament how?

Because they're dirty Johnny Foreigners don't ya know?

it makes me laugh when i hear people calling the French arrogant

surely theres no more arrogant people in the world than us Brits?

even Blair was saying in his speach today how WE are the best country in the world


okiiii

[InsaneApache]

and corruption.

Plus it's based on fraud

I don't know about that, I haven't seen anything along those lines at the agency I work in. I would suggest that ludicrous laws and procedures mixed with a huge dose of incompetence is a better description

Don't you remember the entire commission being asked to resign because of corrupt practises? Then there was the case of the auditor who uncovered widespread corruption and fraud. She went to the anti-corruption commisioner, a certain Welsh wind bag, called Kinnock, who immediatley swung into action........and sacked her!

Trains running on gravy spring to mind.

[Winter Hill White]

It may be in vain, but I'll have a little go at sticking up for the EU here. Two pages of rant might suggest otherwise, but as far as I understand it, this is in the news at the moment because the EU have decided NOT to impose metrication (word?) on the UK.

If I was more adept at using the search function, I'd dig up some previous stuff about stories concerning the EU. "EU going to ban bent bananas", "EU to rename Waterloo station so as not to upset the French", "EU ban Wensleydale cheese", etc, etc. The point was made at the time (by Commie, perhaps?) that if you actually read the article concerned (invariably in the Mail or Express), no such thing is suggested, and the headline is just a good old bit of scaremongering.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Don't you remember the entire commission being asked to resign because of corrupt practises? Then there was the case of the auditor who uncovered widespread corruption and fraud. She went to the anti-corruption commisioner, a certain Welsh wind bag, called Kinnock, who immediatley swung into action........and sacked her!

Trains running on gravy spring to mind.

To be honest I don't pay much attention to the commission. I work at a decentralised agency and whilst we ultimately report to the commission we are quite remote from it. I know there have been issues with the accounts and quite serious ones, but I don't know the bits and pieces of it.

I can only comment on where work, which incidentally is considered one of the best agency's in the EU, which might explain why haven't seen anything untoward. As said earlier, the ridiculous rules, attitude and incompetence of many are where the problems lie. I'm neither for or against the EU. I see 1st hand some of the good that is done, but I also see the wastage. I don't agree with the make up of the EU in terms of commission (the doers, eg civil servants), parliament (elected MEPs) and council (member state govts). For anything much to happen the council and parliament has to agree. Half the suggestions come from the commission which is full of career civil servants that are out of touch and out of date!

[Montreal Wanderer]

It may be in vain, but I'll have a little go at sticking up for the EU here. Two pages of rant might suggest otherwise, but as far as I understand it, this is in the news at the moment because the EU have decided NOT to impose metrication (word?) on the UK.

Metrification, I believe. Hence the use in the Telegraph

1994 Daily Tel. 2 Aug. 13/8 The only heartening episode connected with the business of metrification concerned those Frenchmen measuring the breadth of France with white flags.

[H. Pedersen]

Being that I am in transportation, I am sick of having to switch between imperial and metric. The country just needs to up and convert. But then again, you'd have those redneck morons in the South fighting tooth and nail to defend the tablespoon, whilst ignoring the fact that their jobs are being shipped overseas. You know, the usual.