Empire Magazine Top 500 Greatest Films

[communistworkethic]

The way i think about it is if someone said your going down for murder and you could take 10 dvd's with you, what films would you take? none of the ones in that top ten for sure! they are all good granted, but i would not like to watch any of them again right now, never mind regularly for the next 30 years!

The Shawshank Redemption
The Rock
Escape from Colditz
Birdman of Alcatraz
The Great Escape
Prison Break Series 1
Prison Break Series 2
Prison Break Series 3
The Dukes of Hazard Series 1
Scum

hmmm bit of a theme there

[ratbert]

The way i think about it is if someone said your going down for murder and you could take 10 dvd's with you, what films would you take? none of the ones in that top ten for sure! they are all good granted, but i would not like to watch any of them again right now, never mind regularly for the next 30 years!

I'd take The Empire Strikes Back without question!

If on death row for murder though, you'd take ten of the longest films available to postpone the inevitable... Andy Warhol once made a 24 hour long film showing nothing but the Empire State Building!

[David Lee's Hair]

Ermm but surely the only judge of whether a film is a "great" or a classic is your own personal opinion of it?

If you are not in that field then yes, not disagreeing. However a director or producer is going to know more about the greatness of making the film than the average joe in the street.

As a what if, say Jurassic Park hadn't been a hit, and infact was so bad it was no-where in terms of being viewed as a great would it not be?

Without it, so many other great films would not be produced. It's a great not because of the film - a poor imitation of the book - but because of what it brought to the film industry.

I don't want someone to tell me what is or isn't a good film, I'll make my own mind up.

You do with every film you've ever seen. Someone has decided that film is good enough otherwise they'd not be made.

Also, and I'd guess 99% of people are like this, I certainly am, I go off hype more than anything else when choosing what to go to see at the cinema. So I'm being influenced on what I like and what I don't. In a strange way we're all being told what a good or bad film is

And therefore the ONLY way you can survey these things is to ask enough of the general populous to find a consensus?

No it isn't. Why do the public need to be involved in them?

Why not Just experts/film-makers, who judge it on the processes to make them. The skills at every level of making them, the performances of the actors that are in them. The other advantage is that they're likely to have seen far more films than the 10000 or so members of the public who voted.

Even better why not do both! One with the experts, one with the Public - they always used to do it with the bands on VH1 - an artists top 100, and viewers top 100.

A classic in one persons eyes may be absolutely shi.te in anothers.

This for me answers why the public shouldn't be involved if I'm honest. So you may have just argued my case completely for me

This means that adding general consensus to the equation means that the less well regarded classics will be weighted against in a view of greatness, for the like sof Harry Potter. Ever read Milton "Paradise Lost"? I tried. Feck me its dull as sin, and to be perfectly honest makes no sense. Yet its a classic. Because it brought something new to literature, not because it's popularity meant it was a great.

An expert, while perhaps not holding something in as higher regard wouldn't just disregard as shite, while me and you would. Therefore, we, the public get involved the poll/survey is degraded for the publics involvement.

Like music, its personal and some films appeal to more people than others. I like some films that the critics "panned". So what? Doesn't make them good or bad, just means I like them.

For example, Schindlers list is a great film (IMO) and it is a very important film in terms of defining some horific historical events.

However, if I sit down on a Saturday evening, its not something I'd particularly choose to watch. But I might re-vist star wars or indiana jones. Therefore if someone asked me for my top 10 films or whatever, I probably wouldn't select Schindlers list. Even though I think its a great film.

Again agreed, it is personal choice for all, and I agree I wouldn't sit down and watch something hard going but great if I wanted an easy Saturday night lay on the couch watching TV.

But there is still a difference between a good film and a great. If as the public do you end up bringing popularity into the equation then why not just get a listing of viewer numbers? They show popularity.

Greatness, while it should take a view on if the public liked it, should be based more on the skills involved in the film, the innovation involved in making it than if your Gran and the rest of the world enjoyed it liked it.

The other issue with bringing general opinion into the equation is that youo tend to get weighting to more recent things than the past. Dark Knight mentioned before comes in about 8th in that listing. I doubt in 10 years if it was done again it would come so high, not just because the media changes but also because it is still fresh in peoples minds.

[communistworkethic]

the first half of the list is a bit of a joke - Indy & the Crystal Skull, Superbad, Beauty & the Beast, pirates fo the caribean, cloverfield, sixth sense, phantom menace, the prestige, AI, dear god,what are some people thinking?

second half, or at least 250-100, seems to have much better balance

[BWFC_Wyles]

sideways is pants

Personally Batman, I love it! Isnt that what makes films/music/sport great?? Opinions? Personal taste? You love LOTR.....I think it's OK

[BWFC_Insane]

Ermm but surely the only judge of whether a film is a "great" or a classic is your own personal opinion of it?

If you are not in that field then yes, not disagreeing. However a director or producer is going to know more about the greatness of making the film than the average joe in the street.

Aye but thats like me saying Megson knows more than all of us so we have no right to our opinions. He does, but end of the day football, films, music are made primarily to be appreciated by the public. And some would argue that their approval is all that counts.

As a what if, say Jurassic Park hadn't been a hit, and infact was so bad it was no-where in terms of being viewed as a great would it not be?

Without it, so many other great films would not be produced. It's a great not because of the film - a poor imitation of the book - but because of what it brought to the film industry.

Ermm a film can be good without mass public interest of course. It comes down to personal opinion. But then surely theres no better way to guage a great than the majority of public opinion?

Nowt wrong with Jurassic park. Enjoyable at the time. And I've watched it since.

I don't want someone to tell me what is or isn't a good film, I'll make my own mind up.

You do with every film you've ever seen. Someone has decided that film is good enough otherwise they'd not be made.

True but thats somewhat stretching the original point. I'll decide if I like it noone else can tell me.

Also, and I'd guess 99% of people are like this, I certainly am, I go off hype more than anything else when choosing what to go to see at the cinema. So I'm being influenced on what I like and what I don't. In a strange way we're all being told what a good or bad film is

And therefore the ONLY way you can survey these things is to ask enough of the general populous to find a consensus?

No it isn't. Why do the public need to be involved in them?

Why not just let someone tell you what films you are allowed to buy and which you're not? Yes decisions are made about which fims are made, but then its my choice. The public make or break films and decisions on films are driven by predicted public response. Say I was one of the "experts". What qualification would I need to be able to impose my views? Say I was a film critic and said Pulp Fiction was the worst film ever made, would that make it true?

Why not Just experts/film-makers, who judge it on the processes to make them. The skills at every level of making them, the performances of the actors that are in them. The other advantage is that they're likely to have seen far more films than the 10000 or so members of the public who voted.

Even better why not do both! One with the experts, one with the Public - they always used to do it with the bands on VH1 - an artists top 100, and viewers top 100.

A classic in one persons eyes may be absolutely shi.te in anothers.

This for me answers why the public shouldn't be involved if I'm honest. So you may have just argued my case completely for me

This means that adding general consensus to the equation means that the less well regarded classics will be weighted against in a view of greatness, for the like sof Harry Potter. Ever read Milton "Paradise Lost"? I tried. Feck me its dull as sin, and to be perfectly honest makes no sense. Yet its a classic. Because it brought something new to literature, not because it's popularity meant it was a great.

An expert, while perhaps not holding something in as higher regard wouldn't just disregard as shite, while me and you would. Therefore, we, the public get involved the poll/survey is degraded for the publics involvement.

Like music, its personal and some films appeal to more people than others. I like some films that the critics "panned". So what? Doesn't make them good or bad, just means I like them.

For example, Schindlers list is a great film (IMO) and it is a very important film in terms of defining some horific historical events.

However, if I sit down on a Saturday evening, its not something I'd particularly choose to watch. But I might re-vist star wars or indiana jones. Therefore if someone asked me for my top 10 films or whatever, I probably wouldn't select Schindlers list. Even though I think its a great film.

Again agreed, it is personal choice for all, and I agree I wouldn't sit down and watch something hard going but great if I wanted an easy Saturday night lay on the couch watching TV.

But there is still a difference between a good film and a great. If as the public do you end up bringing popularity into the equation then why not just get a listing of viewer numbers? They show popularity.

Greatness, while it should take a view on if the public liked it, should be based more on the skills involved in the film, the innovation involved in making it than if your Gran and the rest of the world enjoyed it liked it.

The other issue with bringing general opinion into the equation is that youo tend to get weighting to more recent things than the past. Dark Knight mentioned before comes in about 8th in that listing. I doubt in 10 years if it was done again it would come so high, not just because the media changes but also because it is still fresh in peoples minds.

[enfieldwhite]

The way i think about it is if someone said your going down for murder and you could take 10 dvd's with you, what films would you take? none of the ones in that top ten for sure! they are all good granted, but i would not like to watch any of them again right now, never mind regularly for the next 30 years!

The Shawshank Redemption
The Rock
Escape from Colditz
Birdman of Alcatraz
The Great Escape
Prison Break Series 1
Prison Break Series 2
Prison Break Series 3
The Dukes of Hazard Series 1
Scum

hmmm bit of a theme there

Shhhh! I would hope the guards wouldn't notice.

[tony cunninghams willy]

No sign of my favourite in that list. Jenna Jameson's Anal Dolls

[Verbal]

The way i think about it is if someone said your going down for murder and you could take 10 dvd's with you, what films would you take? none of the ones in that top ten for sure! they are all good granted, but i would not like to watch any of them again right now, never mind regularly for the next 30 years!

The Shawshank Redemption
The Rock
Escape from Colditz
Birdman of Alcatraz
The Great Escape
Prison Break Series 1
Prison Break Series 2
Prison Break Series 3
The Dukes of Hazard Series 1
Scum

hmmm bit of a theme there

Shhhh! I would hope the guards wouldn't notice.

You wouldn't take The Green Mile then?

[Batman]

disagree with all of those

spesh the magazine dave, it's pretentious shit

[ratbert]

Ermm but surely the only judge of whether a film is a "great" or a classic is your own personal opinion of it?

If you are not in that field then yes, not disagreeing. However a director or producer is going to know more about the greatness of making the film than the average joe in the street.

Aye but thats like me saying Megson knows more than all of us so we have no right to our opinions. He does, but end of the day football, films, music are made primarily to be appreciated by the public. And some would argue that their approval is all that counts.

As a what if, say Jurassic Park hadn't been a hit, and infact was so bad it was no-where in terms of being viewed as a great would it not be?

Without it, so many other great films would not be produced. It's a great not because of the film - a poor imitation of the book - but because of what it brought to the film industry.

Ermm a film can be good without mass public interest of course. It comes down to personal opinion. But then surely theres no better way to guage a great than the majority of public opinion?

Nowt wrong with Jurassic park. Enjoyable at the time. And I've watched it since.

I don't want someone to tell me what is or isn't a good film, I'll make my own mind up.

You do with every film you've ever seen. Someone has decided that film is good enough otherwise they'd not be made.

True but thats somewhat stretching the original point. I'll decide if I like it noone else can tell me.

Also, and I'd guess 99% of people are like this, I certainly am, I go off hype more than anything else when choosing what to go to see at the cinema. So I'm being influenced on what I like and what I don't. In a strange way we're all being told what a good or bad film is

And therefore the ONLY way you can survey these things is to ask enough of the general populous to find a consensus?

No it isn't. Why do the public need to be involved in them?

Why not just let someone tell you what films you are allowed to buy and which you're not? Yes decisions are made about which fims are made, but then its my choice. The public make or break films and decisions on films are driven by predicted public response. Say I was one of the "experts". What qualification would I need to be able to impose my views? Say I was a film critic and said Pulp Fiction was the worst film ever made, would that make it true?

Why not Just experts/film-makers, who judge it on the processes to make them. The skills at every level of making them, the performances of the actors that are in them. The other advantage is that they're likely to have seen far more films than the 10000 or so members of the public who voted.

Even better why not do both! One with the experts, one with the Public - they always used to do it with the bands on VH1 - an artists top 100, and viewers top 100.

A classic in one persons eyes may be absolutely shi.te in anothers.

This for me answers why the public shouldn't be involved if I'm honest. So you may have just argued my case completely for me

This means that adding general consensus to the equation means that the less well regarded classics will be weighted against in a view of greatness, for the like sof Harry Potter. Ever read Milton "Paradise Lost"? I tried. Feck me its dull as sin, and to be perfectly honest makes no sense. Yet its a classic. Because it brought something new to literature, not because it's popularity meant it was a great.

An expert, while perhaps not holding something in as higher regard wouldn't just disregard as shite, while me and you would. Therefore, we, the public get involved the poll/survey is degraded for the publics involvement.

Like music, its personal and some films appeal to more people than others. I like some films that the critics "panned". So what? Doesn't make them good or bad, just means I like them.

For example, Schindlers list is a great film (IMO) and it is a very important film in terms of defining some horific historical events.

However, if I sit down on a Saturday evening, its not something I'd particularly choose to watch. But I might re-vist star wars or indiana jones. Therefore if someone asked me for my top 10 films or whatever, I probably wouldn't select Schindlers list. Even though I think its a great film.

Again agreed, it is personal choice for all, and I agree I wouldn't sit down and watch something hard going but great if I wanted an easy Saturday night lay on the couch watching TV.

But there is still a difference between a good film and a great. If as the public do you end up bringing popularity into the equation then why not just get a listing of viewer numbers? They show popularity.

Greatness, while it should take a view on if the public liked it, should be based more on the skills involved in the film, the innovation involved in making it than if your Gran and the rest of the world enjoyed it liked it.

The other issue with bringing general opinion into the equation is that youo tend to get weighting to more recent things than the past. Dark Knight mentioned before comes in about 8th in that listing. I doubt in 10 years if it was done again it would come so high, not just because the media changes but also because it is still fresh in peoples minds.

There's a very good article in this month's Sight and Sound magazine about how the power of the film critic seems to be in decline. The days when a reviewer could ruin a film seem to be over, in terms of Hollywood blockbusters at least - poorly reviewed films such as, say, the Star Wars prequels (which I happen to like, though I must be in a minority of one) or Indiana Jones / Crystal Skull will make a mint due to their brand name, or their hype. In other cases, audiences will vote with their bums and word of mouth usually puts other people off - this summer's Speed Racer, for instance.

However, a small, independent film such as the aforementioned Sideways, or Juno, or even The Full Monty can be championed by critics and eventually the audiences will pick them up, distributors and exhibitors (the cinema chains) will catch on and presto, you have a widely seen hit.

[Verbal]

To be fair ratty, the Full Monty was distributed by Fox, so it had an edge over most brit flicks...

[CrazyHorse]

Nowt wrong with the Star Wars prequels in my opinion too.

[Prufrock]

WHERE IS SHOWGIRLS?!?!

[ratbert]

To be fair ratty, the Full Monty was distributed by Fox, so it had an edge over most brit flicks...

True, but under their Fox Searchlight banner for small budget, limited release films. I doubt they expected it to become as big as it did...

[Luna]

The Dark Knight outranks Taxi Driver (my personal favorite), 2001, The Godfather II, Citizen Kane, Vertigo...

[General Mannerheim]

and The Shining only made it to No 52!?

also, cant see Napoleon Dynamite in there???

[General Mannerheim]

after starting this thread, I picked up the magazine later today, went for the Raging Bull cover. its a great read actually, the top 500 bit.

another travesty though, Rear Window only made it to 103!? 102 films better than that, bollocks!

[Dujon]

I haven't seen most of the films in the top ten as listed so I cannot really comment. However, I suppose it depends on how you interpret the word 'greatest'. Much as I enjoy watching the Indiana Jones films I would not classify any of them as 'great'. Is an enduringly popular film great? Perhaps if that list was culled of all films released in the last twenty years one might get a better idea, but even then the result is popularity and not necessarily of artistic merit. Does it matter? Of course it doesn't.

Thanks to those who mentioned The Full Monty, it's one of my favourites in my (small) DVD collection.

[William the White]

empire is a shit magazine

agreeing with batman again... that's twice this year, and it's only September...

Also note ratbert's reference to Sight and Sound which is, indisputably, the only genuine cinema journal of criticism and record in UK.

I'm interested in the question that if you had a life sentence to serve and ten DVDs to select what would they be?

OK...

Not in order...

Battle of Algiers
Kameradschaft
Citizen Kane
I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang
The Browning Version
Treasure of the Sierra Madre
The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie
The Way We Were
Morgan... a Suitable Case for Treatment
Dr Strangelove

OK - not many of these even in colour... But if I've 20 years to serve I'm looking for complexity, moral dilemma, emotional power and a sense of the human spirit, breaking or resisting. And black and white does it for me.

And some laughter - two great comedies up there...

I expect some of these made it into Empire's top 500... and some didn't.