when the fat lady sings

[General Mannerheim]

Opera? not keen, although i did like the one where Tom Cruise started jumping around the set - crackers!

never heard the bint sing tho...

[Dujon]

I'd wind my neck in on matters of culture if I were you, Dujon, for Australia is its barren wasteland!

Ah, the stereotypical response of a bloke who doesn't appreciate the artistry involved in proper barbeque or the pure class necessary to produce a cold beer. Of course I can fully understand your viewpoint given that you live in a climatic range that varies from cold & wet to colder & wetter.

I accept your wink, Bruce, provided that you accept my grin . . . you're trumped.

For those of who think that Brucie is serious: There are at least three opera lovers residing in this country - I don't know who they are and I don't know why they are here (immigrants no doubt). Excluding that triplet of aficionados I suspect that half of the rest of the population might be interested if they could understand what the hell the 'singers' are on about. That's not to say that singing in Italian, French or German is any better or worse than singing in English as they are all completely unintelligible without the aid of subtitles. Let's be honest; how many listeners can decrypt the word 'and' when it is drawn out over 10 bars? (If you don't understand my meaning that's the time it takes to imbibe a pint at 10 hostelries)

To be brutally honest, and given the acting capabilities of most opera singers, perhaps someone could invent a set of wooden chess pieces which one has to move to the right place at the right time in order to produce some sort of sense? An operatic jig saw puzzle. Whilst I doubt that the resulting noise would be either restful or exciting it would indeed educate the masses and inculcate them with the necessary appreciation of the total stupidity and utter pointlessness of people ( those who live next you, work with you or pass you in the street ) gouging money from the general population in order to satisfy their addiction.

We in this land that affects the balance the world despair of you lot above the equator. Music is wonderful - it really is - we even have operatic companies (I'm thinking of starting a political party which will follow the government of the day but press for the abolition of operatic subsidies) and our musical talent (never mind good looking pop queens) is second to none.

At this point I would post a sound file that, essentially, says 'piss off' - after all, even the Hamlet soliloquy said 'To B or not to B'. What he didn't say was 'should it be sharp, natural or flat.

I am now off to my local to find out.

[Bruce Rioja]

I'd wind my neck in on matters of culture if I were you, Dujon, for Australia is its barren wasteland!

Ah, the stereotypical response of a bloke who doesn't appreciate the artistry involved in proper barbeque or the pure class necessary to produce a cold beer. Of course I can fully understand your viewpoint given that you live in a climatic range that varies from cold & wet to colder & wetter.

I accept your wink, Bruce, provided that you accept my grin . . . you're trumped.

Fair play!

[Prufrock]

Hmm Opera goes with Classical Music on my list of things I have never really got. Mainly I think that is due to a complete lack of knowing where to start. I must say I do prefer my music to have words, and even more so words I understand, but it's rare I'll skip Flight of the Valykyries should it come onto my ipod. My problem has always been accesibility, and not just literally. Both Opera and Classical music have frightening reputations for snobbery, and snobbery is a particular crux of mine. I don't think throwing my pint over some sneering twit would go down too well. I understand what I have just written is a massive and unfounded stereotype, but one I find it difficult to get over. Also I am put off Opera because it just sounds like a posh musical, and i can't abide musicals, they are certainly something I don't 'get'.

It's something I'd never write off, but it doesn't appeal particularly right now.

[screech powers]

by coincedence, there was an opera singer bloke belting em out before the game today... quite enjoyed it and the crowd gave him a great reception.... who knew the Bolton folk could be so cultured.

[William the White]

by coincedence, there was an opera singer bloke belting em out before the game today... quite enjoyed it and the crowd gave him a great reception.... who knew the Bolton folk could be so cultured.

Yeah.. i heard that on the way to the stadium, but didn't get in until 5 to when it was the usual shite... Was he singing Nessun Dorma? I thought I heard O Sole Mio also...

and is there anything we can do to stop the shambles of the half time girls who are just embarrassing?

[Dujon]

Prufrock, don't confuse classical music with opera, although operatic music without a flock of warblers does in fact have its moments. Wagner's Ring Cycle excepted. Mind you, that never to be repeated loooooong musical did attempt to tell a story - even if it did take ten hours to do so; no doubt similar to a DVD containing all the episodes of Neighbours but compressed a bit. As a result I haven't had the time to explore its intricacies, nuances and music to any great degree.

When it comes to so-called classical music I am no simpering acolyte who claims that every piece written by any man born more than five hundred years ago was by default a proof that he was some sort of musical god (sorry, ladies, but I am ignorant of any female composer of that era - possibly because they haven't admitted to their age).

Also, Prufrock, I take music as I hear it (dodgy hearing and all) rather than trying to dissect a particular piece by analysis of the musicians playing the piece, trying to work out what the composer was thinking at the time the composition was formed or for that matter who paid him for that production. The technical side of music I leave to those who understand the difficulties involved in conjuring emotion from a collection of tones and harmonics.

It's a bit like football really - it is, really and honestly. A team is an orchestra and an orchestra needs balance and discipline whilst at the same time the conductor insists that the orchestra play in a certain manner and tempo within his strict guidelines (which is, theoretically, reinforced during rehearsals). Therefore the success of the composer's effort depends on the team and conductor who are paid to do his bidding - although that does not mean that his tactics were right.

Oh, heck, I'm waffling. Borrow, beg or steal a few C.D.s of classical stuff. I am absolutely and positively certain that you will begin to enjoy the genre.

[William the White]

I had to go back 28 pages to recover this thread...

So, tonight, at Cineworld in the Valley and at a lot of other cinemas up and down the country the New York Met Live, in a much praised production of Verdi's Otello.

The transmissions are usually brilliant, great sound and excellent production, with interval interviews with singers or musicians.

Otello was the first opera I ever saw. 25 years ago. There have been a few since. The event starts at 5.55. Looking forward to it!

[Dujon]

Thanks, WtW. I trust that it was as enjoyable as you anticipated. Was it a 'live' performance in the sense of being shown as it happened on a large electronic screen or was it what the media often laughingly refers to as live but is simply a recording made at a concert?

I hope I didn't stop your thread dead in it's tracks by my playing of devil's advocate to opera buffs. I really don't like opera, but that doesn't mean that I transfer such dislike to those who do and who can understand what's going on on-stage. I do though admire opera singers, particularly the leads, for their ability to remember the enormous amount required to sing through an entire production. When my children were young I had enough trouble remembering the words to Baa Baa Black Sheep (and other nursery rhymes.) It's weird really; I have the same problem with poetry, so I suppose it's some idiosyncrasy in my personal data base. The obverse of that trait is that if I hear a tune that I haven't heard for years I can hum along with it without a problem.

To those of you who do like opera - carry on. I promise not to disrupt your conversation unless I have a genuine question or comment.

[William the White]

Thanks, WtW. I trust that it was as enjoyable as you anticipated. Was it a 'live' performance in the sense of being shown as it happened on a large electronic screen or was it what the media often laughingly refers to as live but is simply a recording made at a concert?

It was magnificent. The production excellent - especially in the roles of Iago and Desdemona, a massive cast, soaring Verdi music - he is the most romantic composer in opera, imho.

Live from NY, Dujon.

[Gary the Enfield]

I with you on this one TD - plenty of good arias - not sure I could tuck in, to a whole Opera though. Maybe one day...

One Fine Day from Madame Butterfly never fails to get the hairs on the back of my neck and arms raising, as does Nissun Dorma.

I guess if you didn't want to listen to the full length you could download the shorter one................





















Nissan Micra!

[William the White]

Tomorrow, at 17.55 at about 100 screens in this country and thousands all over the world, the New York Met Opera perform live Mozart's last opera, La Clemenza di Tito. I don't know this one at all, but I've heard this Mozart guy is pretty good...

In Bolton it's on at Cineworld in the Valley... Opera from one of the world's greatest companies, for about a tenner, and just about enough time to get there after the match... Yes!

[Montreal Wanderer]

Tomorrow, at 17.55 at about 100 screens in this country and thousands all over the world, the New York Met Opera perform live Mozart's last opera, La Clemenza di Tito. I don't know this one at all, but I've heard this Mozart guy is pretty good...

In Bolton it's on at Cineworld in the Valley... Opera from one of the world's greatest companies, for about a tenner, and just about enough time to get there after the match... Yes!

Trouble was he was just about dying when he wrote it or, put another way, he wasn't so much composing as decomposing. In a sense it wasn't his last opera since he finished the Magic Flute after the Cklemency of Titus premiered.

[William the White]

Tomorrow, at 17.55 at about 100 screens in this country and thousands all over the world, the New York Met Opera perform live Mozart's last opera, La Clemenza di Tito. I don't know this one at all, but I've heard this Mozart guy is pretty good...

In Bolton it's on at Cineworld in the Valley... Opera from one of the world's greatest companies, for about a tenner, and just about enough time to get there after the match... Yes!

Trouble was he was just about dying when he wrote it or, put another way, he wasn't so much composing as decomposing. In a sense it wasn't his last opera since he finished the Magic Flute after the Cklemency of Titus premiered.

Not up there with Don Giovanni then, you reckon? I'm not a fan of Mozart's orchestral music, for the most part, but his opera...

[Montreal Wanderer]

Tomorrow, at 17.55 at about 100 screens in this country and thousands all over the world, the New York Met Opera perform live Mozart's last opera, La Clemenza di Tito. I don't know this one at all, but I've heard this Mozart guy is pretty good...

In Bolton it's on at Cineworld in the Valley... Opera from one of the world's greatest companies, for about a tenner, and just about enough time to get there after the match... Yes!

Trouble was he was just about dying when he wrote it or, put another way, he wasn't so much composing as decomposing. In a sense it wasn't his last opera since he finished the Magic Flute after the Cklemency of Titus premiered.

Not up there with Don Giovanni then, you reckon? I'm not a fan of Mozart's orchestral music, for the most part, but his opera...

I'm no expert, William. It was the first Mozart opera to play in London and closed after one night. It did not reach the capital again for a century and a half. Famed musicologist Alfred Einstein (no relation) in 1945 wrote that it was "customary to speak disparagingly of La clemenza di Tito and to dismiss it as the product of haste and fatigue," and he continues the disparagement to some extent by condemning the characters as puppets – e.g., "Tito is nothing but a mere puppet representing magnanimity" – and claiming that the opera seria was already a moribund form. Still, it's like wine - if you like it, just enjoy it - it doesn't matter what the experts think. I'm afraid I'm more of a Gilbert and Sullivan man myself.

[bedwetter2]

Nothing like the Ring Cycle to numb your bum. Frnar fnarr!

[William the White]

I'm no expert, William. It was the first Mozart opera to play in London and closed after one night. It did not reach the capital again for a century and a half. Famed musicologist Alfred Einstein (no relation) in 1945 wrote that it was "customary to speak disparagingly of La clemenza di Tito and to dismiss it as the product of haste and fatigue," and he continues the disparagement to some extent by condemning the characters as puppets – e.g., "Tito is nothing but a mere puppet representing magnanimity" – and claiming that the opera seria was already a moribund form. Still, it's like wine - if you like it, just enjoy it - it doesn't matter what the experts think. I'm afraid I'm more of a Gilbert and Sullivan man myself.

I didn't know it at all - and the characterisation is, as your critic claimed, pretty wooden. And Tito is just too good to be true, or to be interesting.

Some of the music is glorious though, and the two mezzo-sopranos in this production were just outstanding. Very glad I went. Two Verdi operas coming up in the next two weekends. The NY Met is a fantastic company, and being able to see work of this quality for just over a tenner is the cultural snip of the year.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I went to an opera once. I also once went to a see a foreign film without subtitles. I went on that thing at Alton Towers that plummets straight down into a fxckin' big hole, once. I once trapped the skin of the end of my penis in my trouser zip. Vastly different experiences, but all have one thing in common - I am never likely to volunteer to repeat them.

[bobo the clown]

I went to an opera once. I also once went to a see a foreign film without subtitles. I went on that thing at Alton Towers that plummets straight down into a fxckin' big hole, once. I once trapped the skin of the end of my penis in my trouser zip. Vastly different experiences, but all have one thing in common - I am never likely to volunteer to repeat them.

Brilliant.

Add to that writing a car off.

[Hoboh]

I like Kathryn Jenkins, does that count?