Happy St .George's Day

[Prufrock]

Really don't give a shiny one. I accept that there's aspects of being English to be proud of, but there are also lots of aspects of being English that make me shudder and ashamed. Therefore, no point in celebrating something that I don't really have that much passion towards.

I'm English, and also British. End of. No need to proud of it. Just am.

All this gubbins about "oh, let's all campaign to stop St George's Day being banned" that's been doing the rounds for the past five or so years is the most stupid argument I've ever known, as well. I've yet to see any proof of anyone "banning" St. George's Day. It's usually reasoned with "well, we do so much for St. Patrick's day, so why not for St. George's Day?". Well, the Irish community do a lot for St. Patrick's Day, and a lot of English tag along for the excuse of getting ripped to the tits on green Guinness. Which isn't really cause for the baying of blood because every Englishman doesn't get ripped to the tits on Old Peculiar.

This. I've yet to meet an Irish person who uses Paddy's as anything other than an excuse to get smashed. If people wanna do the same with St.Georges then by all means. Personally I love Guiness so I'm out on Paddy's day, but I don't like real ale so I'm not on Georges. National pride Smational Pride. It's just a tool used by racists, or an occasion where people who ARE proud to be British seem to get offended that not everyone cares. Or alternatively an occasion where people who are proud to be british celebrate how they like and just have a good time. They're my favourite of the three.

[warthog]

United Utilities celebrated St Georges Day by giving me a power cut. So I thought bollocks to it, went for a drive around Pendle and had a pint in the garden of a country pub. Admiring the view, listening to the birds and watching the world go by. That's what England's about for me, forget about this nationalistic bollocks.

I thought about lunch when in Downham, but £27 for a steak or £12 for fish and chips put me off. Being ripped off is what England's about as well.

[mofgimmers]

It's funny how many people think that St Patrick's Day is a Guinness ad writ large. Having an Irish girlfriend, I was interested to discover that it's a proper religious festival over there. They get the day off, loads go to church to give thanks and praise. And then, it's a big feed and the pub. Much like we do on Good Friday, New Year's Eve and Boxing Day. Of course, in England, it's mostly a bit Mickey Mouse, but go to a proper Irish pub and they celebrate it properly with folk music and a variety of Irish drinks (Powers, Kilkenny and alternative stouts).

Fact is, most Englishmen claim they want to keep the flag flying but have absolutely no idea how to celebrate Englishness. Instead of enjoying English/Cornish folk music, geeing on the Morris dancers and caning real ales and pies, they'd listen to German dance music and American RnB, drink Belgian lager and eat Turkish kebabs on the way home. There's a reason why the whole Celebrate St George's Day hasn't taken off in this country... and that's because no-one actually lives a very 'English' life. They'd have you believe they do... but they really don't.

[William the White]

It's funny how many people think that St Patrick's Day is a Guinness ad writ large. Having an Irish girlfriend, I was interested to discover that it's a proper religious festival over there. They get the day off, loads go to church to give thanks and praise. And then, it's a big feed and the pub. Much like we do on Good Friday, New Year's Eve and Boxing Day. Of course, in England, it's mostly a bit Mickey Mouse, but go to a proper Irish pub and they celebrate it properly with folk music and a variety of Irish drinks (Powers, Kilkenny and alternative stouts).

Fact is, most Englishmen claim they want to keep the flag flying but have absolutely no idea how to celebrate Englishness. Instead of enjoying English/Cornish folk music, geeing on the Morris dancers and caning real ales and pies, they'd listen to German dance music and American RnB, drink Belgian lager and eat Turkish kebabs on the way home. There's a reason why the whole Celebrate St George's Day hasn't taken off in this country... and that's because no-one actually lives a very 'English' life. They'd have you believe they do... but they really don't.

we go to church to give thanks and praise on these days??? who does?

[Tombwfc]

I voted for number two.

England is alright and all, but St George's day these days isn't really about celebrating being English in as much as it's an excuse for some people to try and tell people from other nations to feck off.

I have to say also, i've never noticed as many flags as i have seen today. Unfortunately I do think it's more of a rection to the BNP/Sun-like cries of "they're taking over!", than an outbreak of national pride and togetherness amidst troubling economic circumstances.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I'm not parochial in outlook... or xenophobic, or boorish or arrogant about England's place in the world.

But I am English, and wherever I go in the world, I am proud to be English and pleased to call England home.

England is the country of Darwin, Newton, Shakespeare and Nelson; the country of Wimbledon, Lords, Twickenham and Wembley; the country of Magna Carta, common law, freedom, the English language; the country of Cambridge, Oxford, Durham and Bolton...

So I dug out the red rose adorned England rugby polo shirt today - that's about as outwardly celebratory as it got, but I did take the opportunity to reflect on the blessing it is to be born an Englishman - nobody will convince me there's any ignominy in that.

[TANGODANCER]

No, we have a lot of faults but our country is one of the most civilized in the world. I'm a lover of observing long-standing tradition in all areas of our lives and, up to now, the English have always done that with pride. My one real beef about today is the amazing ability of some people to dismiss it or change it almost instantly as if it was never there, and the cult of "must not offend" that reigns now. There are certain areas and traditions that will ever be there for me. St George's day (Turkish or no) is one of them. Doesn't mean I have to fly a flag out of my front window ( although I reserve the right to do so) or get ballooned to do it. People will see it as they see it, fine by me.

[fatshaft]

This. I've yet to meet an Irish person who uses Paddy's as anything other than an excuse to get smashed. If people wanna do the same with St.Georges then by all means. Personally I love Guiness so I'm out on Paddy's day, but I don't like real ale so I'm not on Georges. National pride Smational Pride. It's just a tool used by racists, or an occasion where people who ARE proud to be British seem to get offended that not everyone cares. Or alternatively an occasion where people who are proud to be british celebrate how they like and just have a good time. They're my favourite of the three.

I think inadvertently you've just made a great case for why St George's Day needs a higher profile. Too often the English confuse and transpose English for British, and here you are talking about British in relation to St Dodds day. It's an English day, nothing at all to do with Britian.

I was driving past my local yesterday, and the tables in the beer garden had a Union Jack on every table. WTF is that about thought I? And then the penny dropped. You just couldn't make that up.

[TANGODANCER]

I think inadvertently you've just made a great case for why St George's Day needs a higher profile. Too often the English confuse and transpose English for British, and here you are talking about British in relation to St Dodds day. It's an English day, nothing at all to do with Britian.
I was driving past my local yesterday, and the tables in the beer garden had a Union Jack on every table. WTF is that about thought I? And then the penny dropped. You just couldn't make that up.

You might site the current trend of dropping History from basic schooling as one reason for this sort of thing. Kids today have to learn things we never even heard of, Social Sudies etc etc; fair enough, that's an evolving world with different skill levels need than in times past. But the basic history of your own country should surely be a priority and not a disposable option in education?

[TANGODANCER]

Not sure if this should be here or the politics thread.

[Raven]

It's funny how many people think that St Patrick's Day is a Guinness ad writ large.

Easy one to answer, its because 5+ years ago St Patricks day never got a mention until Guiness, Clinton Cards, Supermarkets and fake Irish Americans etc etc started pushing it! Oh and anyone (not Irish...thats real Irish not some Yank who had an Irish ancestor in the 1600's) who calls it St Paddy's day should be horse whipped

[fatshaft]

It's funny how many people think that St Patrick's Day is a Guinness ad writ large.

Easy one to answer, its because 5+ years ago St Patricks day never got a mention until Guiness, Clinton Cards, Supermarkets and fake Irish Americans etc etc started pushing it! Oh and anyone (not Irish...thats real Irish not some Yank who had an Irish ancestor in the 1600's) who calls it St Paddy's day should be horse whipped

Is St Dodds day ok though?

[Montreal Wanderer]

There have been St. Patrick's day parades (and booze-ups) in North America - well, basically Boston and Montreal - for well over a century and it is a tradition here. It may well have been illegal to celebrate it in Ireland in times past, just as the shamrock was forbidden to be worn.

It is a bit ironic that of the British patrons saints (assuming they existed at all), St. Patrick was a Scot, Saint George was a Roman and Saint Andrew a Jew. Only Saint David was patron saint of his native land. England shares St. George with many, many others - Russia, Ethiopia, Catalonia etc. Tbh I didn't even know if Canada had a patron saint so looked it up. We appear to have two - St. Joseph (foster father of Jesus) who must have lived and died in total ignorance of our country and Saint Jean de Brébeuf, who actually came here with the Jesuits. I don't think we take much pride in either and stick to Canada Day (once Dominion Day) for our rare patriotic outbursts.

[Puskas]

There have been St. Patrick's day parades (and booze-ups) in North America - well, basically Boston and Montreal - for well over a century and it is a tradition here. It may well have been illegal to celebrate it in Ireland in times past, just as the shamrock was forbidden to be worn.

It is a bit ironic that of the British patrons saints (assuming they existed at all), St. Patrick was a Scot, Saint George was a Roman and Saint Andrew a Jew. Only Saint David was patron saint of his native land. England shares St. George with many, many others - Russia, Ethiopia, Catalonia etc. Tbh I didn't even know if Canada had a patron saint so looked it up. We appear to have two - St. Joseph (foster father of Jesus) who must have lived and died in total ignorance of our country and Saint Jean de Brébeuf, who actually came here with the Jesuits. I don't think we take much pride in either and stick to Canada Day (once Dominion Day) for our rare patriotic outbursts.

I thought he was from Southwest England.
Got kidnapped and sold into slavery, turned into a bit of a nutter.

Which makes it even more ironic - the Irish patron saint being English...

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I don't think we take much pride in either and stick to Canada Day (once Dominion Day) for our rare patriotic outbursts.

It's still Dominion Day to Canadians I know.

It's Koninginnedag (Queen's Day) in just under week's time in the Netherlands - a big, orange, exuberant celebration of a curious little country... tremendous.

[boltonboris]

I don't think we take much pride in either and stick to Canada Day (once Dominion Day) for our rare patriotic outbursts.

It's still Dominion Day to Canadians I know.

It's Koninginnedag (Queen's Day) in just under week's time in the Netherlands - a big, orange, exuberant celebration of a curious little country... tremendous.

A fantastic sight and a brilliant experience

[Montreal Wanderer]

I don't think we take much pride in either and stick to Canada Day (once Dominion Day) for our rare patriotic outbursts.

It's still Dominion Day to Canadians I know.

It's Koninginnedag (Queen's Day) in just under week's time in the Netherlands - a big, orange, exuberant celebration of a curious little country... tremendous.

In our desperate and endless search for political correctness and appeasement of vociferous minorities/majorities, we have changed the names of various holidays. Next month is Victoria Day or in French Fête de la Reine, except in Quebec it is called Journée nationale des patriotes (National Patriots Day), which commemorates the patriotes of the Lower Canada Rebellion of 1837 against the British. Before 2003, the holiday was referred to as la Fête de Dollard, after Adam Dollard des Ormeaux. All rather confusing. So people still say Victoria Day and Dollard although both are legally wrong in Quebec.

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

I don't think we take much pride in either and stick to Canada Day (once Dominion Day) for our rare patriotic outbursts.

It's still Dominion Day to Canadians I know.

It's Koninginnedag (Queen's Day) in just under week's time in the Netherlands - a big, orange, exuberant celebration of a curious little country... tremendous.

In our desperate and endless search for political correctness and appeasement of vociferous minorities/majorities, we have changed the names of various holidays. Next month is Victoria Day or in French Fête de la Reine, except in Quebec it is called Journée nationale des patriotes (National Patriots Day), which commemorates the patriotes of the Lower Canada Rebellion of 1837 against the British. Before 2003, the holiday was referred to as la Fête de Dollard, after Adam Dollard des Ormeaux. All rather confusing. So people still say Victoria Day and Dollard although both are legally wrong in Quebec.

Yes, I am familiar with this aspect of your Trudeaupia.

[superjohnmcginlay]

Well that was a good do.

[TANGODANCER]

Ref patron saints; something that's always puzzled me. James, in Spanish, is Jaime, yet Spain's patron Saint, Santiago ( sometimes referred to as Matamoro, and as in Santiago de Compostela) is St James . The Sant bit is saint, leaving Iago. No one has yet been able to explain to me why this is, not even Spaniards I've asked. Monty?