Today I'm angry about.....

If you have a life outside of BWFC, then this is the place to tell us all about your toilet habits, and those bizarre fetishes.......

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Hoboh
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Hoboh » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:30 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:46 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:26 pm
Getting a trifle fed up of all the outlets refusing cash payments these days, I really think they are working to abolish it. There are some places that no way I would give card details to nor trust their contactless system to be 100% secure, surely they have to accept cash by law, isn't it legal tender? Big brother monitoring seems to be taking over, as for that Covid app, spit!
I genuinely don't think I've paid for anything with cash in about 5 years - certainly not in a shop or whatnot. Possibly in bars etc I have.

But I've used contactless payment in that time every since day and not had an issue. Not really sure what you're worried about. Nobody steals your details - card cloning is only an issue if you surrender your physical card to someone. Cash you are subject to fake notes etc...

Nothing is risk free or without its drawbacks but I really do not think paying by card is an issue unless you are one who wears tinfoil on your head....
Nothing tin foil hat about anything, too much tracking is being slipped into our daily lives unconsciously.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:12 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:46 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:26 pm
Getting a trifle fed up of all the outlets refusing cash payments these days, I really think they are working to abolish it. There are some places that no way I would give card details to nor trust their contactless system to be 100% secure, surely they have to accept cash by law, isn't it legal tender? Big brother monitoring seems to be taking over, as for that Covid app, spit!
I genuinely don't think I've paid for anything with cash in about 5 years - certainly not in a shop or whatnot. Possibly in bars etc I have.

But I've used contactless payment in that time every since day and not had an issue. Not really sure what you're worried about. Nobody steals your details - card cloning is only an issue if you surrender your physical card to someone. Cash you are subject to fake notes etc...

Nothing is risk free or without its drawbacks but I really do not think paying by card is an issue unless you are one who wears tinfoil on your head....
I certainly use cash for tips and the purchase of small items. The automated devices on our buses only take coins, and they would find us using debit/credit cards for a two dollar fare expensive.
"If you cannot answer a man's argument, all it not lost; you can still call him vile names. " Elbert Hubbard.

BWFC_Insane
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:18 pm

Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:12 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:46 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:26 pm
Getting a trifle fed up of all the outlets refusing cash payments these days, I really think they are working to abolish it. There are some places that no way I would give card details to nor trust their contactless system to be 100% secure, surely they have to accept cash by law, isn't it legal tender? Big brother monitoring seems to be taking over, as for that Covid app, spit!
I genuinely don't think I've paid for anything with cash in about 5 years - certainly not in a shop or whatnot. Possibly in bars etc I have.

But I've used contactless payment in that time every since day and not had an issue. Not really sure what you're worried about. Nobody steals your details - card cloning is only an issue if you surrender your physical card to someone. Cash you are subject to fake notes etc...

Nothing is risk free or without its drawbacks but I really do not think paying by card is an issue unless you are one who wears tinfoil on your head....
I certainly use cash for tips and the purchase of small items. The automated devices on our buses only take coins, and they would find us using debit/credit cards for a two dollar fare expensive.
Yeah I guess I don't use buses so doesn't apply. We also haven't been anywhere we'd tip (which is of course very limited over here I'm guessing compared to your side of the Atlantic!).

Worthy4England
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:27 pm

Leaving out loyalty cards and online accounts (where you pretty much, de-facto give the retailer permission to record your details) what data do you think you're sharing (and with whom) in a credit / debit card transaction?

Hoboh
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Hoboh » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:55 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:27 pm
Leaving out loyalty cards and online accounts (where you pretty much, de-facto give the retailer permission to record your details) what data do you think you're sharing (and with whom) in a credit / debit card transaction?
Apparently it is not too difficult to clone card information via tap and go and every single transaction you make will be traceable, certain people can block your account that could be extended to perhaps a missed payment or a payment a government department thinks it is due even though you've paid it leaving the onus on you to sort it out, leaving you literally, skint. It is a whole feast of possible problems and control issues waiting to happen is a cashless society.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:24 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:55 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:27 pm
Leaving out loyalty cards and online accounts (where you pretty much, de-facto give the retailer permission to record your details) what data do you think you're sharing (and with whom) in a credit / debit card transaction?
Apparently it is not too difficult to clone card information via tap and go and every single transaction you make will be traceable, certain people can block your account that could be extended to perhaps a missed payment or a payment a government department thinks it is due even though you've paid it leaving the onus on you to sort it out, leaving you literally, skint. It is a whole feast of possible problems and control issues waiting to happen is a cashless society.
You cannot, I repeat cannot, clone card information by contactless payment. These stories were myths.

Traceable by who? And what are you trying to hide?

As for blocking your account - what are you on about? Someone can block your bank account for the same reasons whether you pay by cash or card. I think you’ve confused yourself here.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:04 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:18 pm
Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:12 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:46 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:26 pm
Getting a trifle fed up of all the outlets refusing cash payments these days, I really think they are working to abolish it. There are some places that no way I would give card details to nor trust their contactless system to be 100% secure, surely they have to accept cash by law, isn't it legal tender? Big brother monitoring seems to be taking over, as for that Covid app, spit!
I genuinely don't think I've paid for anything with cash in about 5 years - certainly not in a shop or whatnot. Possibly in bars etc I have.

But I've used contactless payment in that time every since day and not had an issue. Not really sure what you're worried about. Nobody steals your details - card cloning is only an issue if you surrender your physical card to someone. Cash you are subject to fake notes etc...

Nothing is risk free or without its drawbacks but I really do not think paying by card is an issue unless you are one who wears tinfoil on your head....
I certainly use cash for tips and the purchase of small items. The automated devices on our buses only take coins, and they would find us using debit/credit cards for a two dollar fare expensive.
Yeah I guess I don't use buses so doesn't apply. We also haven't been anywhere we'd tip (which is of course very limited over here I'm guessing compared to your side of the Atlantic!).
I was referring to cash use in the pre-covid era, given your five-year frame. I'm surprised you don't go anywhere where you might tip. Even in covid times when I don't go to bars and restaurants I still tip the drugstore guy who brings my prescription medicine or the pizza delivery chap so I can get stuff "sheltering in place". I am relatively affluent and have a car, but I take public transport to go downtown to avoid parking nightmares and associated costs. It is the environmentally correct thing to do! :wink:
"If you cannot answer a man's argument, all it not lost; you can still call him vile names. " Elbert Hubbard.

BWFC_Insane
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:17 pm

Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:04 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:18 pm
Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:12 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:46 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:26 pm
Getting a trifle fed up of all the outlets refusing cash payments these days, I really think they are working to abolish it. There are some places that no way I would give card details to nor trust their contactless system to be 100% secure, surely they have to accept cash by law, isn't it legal tender? Big brother monitoring seems to be taking over, as for that Covid app, spit!
I genuinely don't think I've paid for anything with cash in about 5 years - certainly not in a shop or whatnot. Possibly in bars etc I have.

But I've used contactless payment in that time every since day and not had an issue. Not really sure what you're worried about. Nobody steals your details - card cloning is only an issue if you surrender your physical card to someone. Cash you are subject to fake notes etc...

Nothing is risk free or without its drawbacks but I really do not think paying by card is an issue unless you are one who wears tinfoil on your head....
I certainly use cash for tips and the purchase of small items. The automated devices on our buses only take coins, and they would find us using debit/credit cards for a two dollar fare expensive.
Yeah I guess I don't use buses so doesn't apply. We also haven't been anywhere we'd tip (which is of course very limited over here I'm guessing compared to your side of the Atlantic!).
I was referring to cash use in the pre-covid era, given your five-year frame. I'm surprised you don't go anywhere where you might tip. Even in covid times when I don't go to bars and restaurants I still tip the drugstore guy who brings my prescription medicine or the pizza delivery chap so I can get stuff "sheltering in place". I am relatively affluent and have a car, but I take public transport to go downtown to avoid parking nightmares and associated costs. It is the environmentally correct thing to do! :wink:
In the last 5 years I’ve obviously tipped lots. But most places we go tend to add service charge so you end up paying it by card anyway. And in the U.K. we just don’t have a tipping culture so I’ve never tipped takeaway drivers or anyone at the pharmacy. But perhaps I’m just mean.

Hoboh
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Hoboh » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:03 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:24 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:55 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:27 pm
Leaving out loyalty cards and online accounts (where you pretty much, de-facto give the retailer permission to record your details) what data do you think you're sharing (and with whom) in a credit / debit card transaction?
Apparently it is not too difficult to clone card information via tap and go and every single transaction you make will be traceable, certain people can block your account that could be extended to perhaps a missed payment or a payment a government department thinks it is due even though you've paid it leaving the onus on you to sort it out, leaving you literally, skint. It is a whole feast of possible problems and control issues waiting to happen is a cashless society.
You cannot, I repeat cannot, clone card information by contactless payment. These stories were myths.

Traceable by who? And what are you trying to hide?

As for blocking your account - what are you on about? Someone can block your bank account for the same reasons whether you pay by cash or card. I think you’ve confused yourself here.
Ffs! You cannot block a hundred quid or whatever in your pocket.
And don't kid yourself people are robbed every day because details of their accounts are floating about.
Really, so it's nonsense a dodgy machine can be hooked up to another? Right I guess it's all bollocks about cloning car key codes then.

Hoboh
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Hoboh » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:09 am

Well these last few months I thought I'd seen everything then up pops a judge and human rights leeches and wham! Back comes a terrorist. To be honest if I saw a judge or a leech on fire I wouldn't unzip my fly just walk on by! The lesson is the state nor the legal system do not have the interests of the vast majority of citizens at heart and they are fuelling the fire that will eventually burn them.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:43 am

Hoboh wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:03 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:24 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:55 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:27 pm
Leaving out loyalty cards and online accounts (where you pretty much, de-facto give the retailer permission to record your details) what data do you think you're sharing (and with whom) in a credit / debit card transaction?
Apparently it is not too difficult to clone card information via tap and go and every single transaction you make will be traceable, certain people can block your account that could be extended to perhaps a missed payment or a payment a government department thinks it is due even though you've paid it leaving the onus on you to sort it out, leaving you literally, skint. It is a whole feast of possible problems and control issues waiting to happen is a cashless society.
You cannot, I repeat cannot, clone card information by contactless payment. These stories were myths.

Traceable by who? And what are you trying to hide?

As for blocking your account - what are you on about? Someone can block your bank account for the same reasons whether you pay by cash or card. I think you’ve confused yourself here.
Ffs! You cannot block a hundred quid or whatever in your pocket.
And don't kid yourself people are robbed every day because details of their accounts are floating about.
Really, so it's nonsense a dodgy machine can be hooked up to another? Right I guess it's all bollocks about cloning car key codes then.
Contactless cards have protections that mean they can't be read in the way the media speculated they could be. Nobody can get your details from you using your card contactlessly. The major card fraud happens when someone asks for your card (say machine isn't working we'll try it in another) and physically swipes it through a card cloner. You have to surrender your card for this to happen.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:06 am

I'm going to stop using banks. They could be hacked.

Hoboh is correct in part. Systems have holes, but you're much more likely to have some details exfiltrated from somewhere you've made an online purchase than through NFC attack at the moment. The PCI-DSS standard deals with how card data needs to be secured, but the issue is policing it. Similarly GDPR and related legislation covers what data can be retained about you and for how long etc. But it's very broad.

Most new systems are designed to keep data safe, with encryption at rest, in transit and in memory. The problem for a consumer is when you log onto joe.bloggs, you've no idea whether their system is new or old, the standards are generally inspecific around "how", they're specific about "what". So they'll test shit like "We process data in a secure manner". I've lost count of the number of "reputable" financial services that can't patch 15 year old firewalls...if the test is "data is segregated", they get a pass (they're using firewalls)...

Data is typically safe against casual attack. As systems develop, there are increasing levels of sophistication in the defence mechanisms. Much harder to hack a good system delivered this year, than the one that's 10 years old. Problem is, financial institutions have some systems that are 30 years old + in concept.

Bottom line for me, I'm more concerned by things that aren't NFC related...But if Hobes is worried unduly about NFC, he should probably stop using banks and anything around online purchasing.

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