Today I'm angry about.....

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Hoboh
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Hoboh » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:30 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:46 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:26 pm
Getting a trifle fed up of all the outlets refusing cash payments these days, I really think they are working to abolish it. There are some places that no way I would give card details to nor trust their contactless system to be 100% secure, surely they have to accept cash by law, isn't it legal tender? Big brother monitoring seems to be taking over, as for that Covid app, spit!
I genuinely don't think I've paid for anything with cash in about 5 years - certainly not in a shop or whatnot. Possibly in bars etc I have.

But I've used contactless payment in that time every since day and not had an issue. Not really sure what you're worried about. Nobody steals your details - card cloning is only an issue if you surrender your physical card to someone. Cash you are subject to fake notes etc...

Nothing is risk free or without its drawbacks but I really do not think paying by card is an issue unless you are one who wears tinfoil on your head....
Nothing tin foil hat about anything, too much tracking is being slipped into our daily lives unconsciously.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:12 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:46 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:26 pm
Getting a trifle fed up of all the outlets refusing cash payments these days, I really think they are working to abolish it. There are some places that no way I would give card details to nor trust their contactless system to be 100% secure, surely they have to accept cash by law, isn't it legal tender? Big brother monitoring seems to be taking over, as for that Covid app, spit!
I genuinely don't think I've paid for anything with cash in about 5 years - certainly not in a shop or whatnot. Possibly in bars etc I have.

But I've used contactless payment in that time every since day and not had an issue. Not really sure what you're worried about. Nobody steals your details - card cloning is only an issue if you surrender your physical card to someone. Cash you are subject to fake notes etc...

Nothing is risk free or without its drawbacks but I really do not think paying by card is an issue unless you are one who wears tinfoil on your head....
I certainly use cash for tips and the purchase of small items. The automated devices on our buses only take coins, and they would find us using debit/credit cards for a two dollar fare expensive.
"If you cannot answer a man's argument, all it not lost; you can still call him vile names. " Elbert Hubbard.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:18 pm

Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:12 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:46 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:26 pm
Getting a trifle fed up of all the outlets refusing cash payments these days, I really think they are working to abolish it. There are some places that no way I would give card details to nor trust their contactless system to be 100% secure, surely they have to accept cash by law, isn't it legal tender? Big brother monitoring seems to be taking over, as for that Covid app, spit!
I genuinely don't think I've paid for anything with cash in about 5 years - certainly not in a shop or whatnot. Possibly in bars etc I have.

But I've used contactless payment in that time every since day and not had an issue. Not really sure what you're worried about. Nobody steals your details - card cloning is only an issue if you surrender your physical card to someone. Cash you are subject to fake notes etc...

Nothing is risk free or without its drawbacks but I really do not think paying by card is an issue unless you are one who wears tinfoil on your head....
I certainly use cash for tips and the purchase of small items. The automated devices on our buses only take coins, and they would find us using debit/credit cards for a two dollar fare expensive.
Yeah I guess I don't use buses so doesn't apply. We also haven't been anywhere we'd tip (which is of course very limited over here I'm guessing compared to your side of the Atlantic!).

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:27 pm

Leaving out loyalty cards and online accounts (where you pretty much, de-facto give the retailer permission to record your details) what data do you think you're sharing (and with whom) in a credit / debit card transaction?

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Hoboh » Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:55 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:27 pm
Leaving out loyalty cards and online accounts (where you pretty much, de-facto give the retailer permission to record your details) what data do you think you're sharing (and with whom) in a credit / debit card transaction?
Apparently it is not too difficult to clone card information via tap and go and every single transaction you make will be traceable, certain people can block your account that could be extended to perhaps a missed payment or a payment a government department thinks it is due even though you've paid it leaving the onus on you to sort it out, leaving you literally, skint. It is a whole feast of possible problems and control issues waiting to happen is a cashless society.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:24 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:55 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:27 pm
Leaving out loyalty cards and online accounts (where you pretty much, de-facto give the retailer permission to record your details) what data do you think you're sharing (and with whom) in a credit / debit card transaction?
Apparently it is not too difficult to clone card information via tap and go and every single transaction you make will be traceable, certain people can block your account that could be extended to perhaps a missed payment or a payment a government department thinks it is due even though you've paid it leaving the onus on you to sort it out, leaving you literally, skint. It is a whole feast of possible problems and control issues waiting to happen is a cashless society.
You cannot, I repeat cannot, clone card information by contactless payment. These stories were myths.

Traceable by who? And what are you trying to hide?

As for blocking your account - what are you on about? Someone can block your bank account for the same reasons whether you pay by cash or card. I think you’ve confused yourself here.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:04 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:18 pm
Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:12 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:46 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:26 pm
Getting a trifle fed up of all the outlets refusing cash payments these days, I really think they are working to abolish it. There are some places that no way I would give card details to nor trust their contactless system to be 100% secure, surely they have to accept cash by law, isn't it legal tender? Big brother monitoring seems to be taking over, as for that Covid app, spit!
I genuinely don't think I've paid for anything with cash in about 5 years - certainly not in a shop or whatnot. Possibly in bars etc I have.

But I've used contactless payment in that time every since day and not had an issue. Not really sure what you're worried about. Nobody steals your details - card cloning is only an issue if you surrender your physical card to someone. Cash you are subject to fake notes etc...

Nothing is risk free or without its drawbacks but I really do not think paying by card is an issue unless you are one who wears tinfoil on your head....
I certainly use cash for tips and the purchase of small items. The automated devices on our buses only take coins, and they would find us using debit/credit cards for a two dollar fare expensive.
Yeah I guess I don't use buses so doesn't apply. We also haven't been anywhere we'd tip (which is of course very limited over here I'm guessing compared to your side of the Atlantic!).
I was referring to cash use in the pre-covid era, given your five-year frame. I'm surprised you don't go anywhere where you might tip. Even in covid times when I don't go to bars and restaurants I still tip the drugstore guy who brings my prescription medicine or the pizza delivery chap so I can get stuff "sheltering in place". I am relatively affluent and have a car, but I take public transport to go downtown to avoid parking nightmares and associated costs. It is the environmentally correct thing to do! :wink:
"If you cannot answer a man's argument, all it not lost; you can still call him vile names. " Elbert Hubbard.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:17 pm

Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:04 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 2:18 pm
Montreal Wanderer wrote:
Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:12 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:46 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:26 pm
Getting a trifle fed up of all the outlets refusing cash payments these days, I really think they are working to abolish it. There are some places that no way I would give card details to nor trust their contactless system to be 100% secure, surely they have to accept cash by law, isn't it legal tender? Big brother monitoring seems to be taking over, as for that Covid app, spit!
I genuinely don't think I've paid for anything with cash in about 5 years - certainly not in a shop or whatnot. Possibly in bars etc I have.

But I've used contactless payment in that time every since day and not had an issue. Not really sure what you're worried about. Nobody steals your details - card cloning is only an issue if you surrender your physical card to someone. Cash you are subject to fake notes etc...

Nothing is risk free or without its drawbacks but I really do not think paying by card is an issue unless you are one who wears tinfoil on your head....
I certainly use cash for tips and the purchase of small items. The automated devices on our buses only take coins, and they would find us using debit/credit cards for a two dollar fare expensive.
Yeah I guess I don't use buses so doesn't apply. We also haven't been anywhere we'd tip (which is of course very limited over here I'm guessing compared to your side of the Atlantic!).
I was referring to cash use in the pre-covid era, given your five-year frame. I'm surprised you don't go anywhere where you might tip. Even in covid times when I don't go to bars and restaurants I still tip the drugstore guy who brings my prescription medicine or the pizza delivery chap so I can get stuff "sheltering in place". I am relatively affluent and have a car, but I take public transport to go downtown to avoid parking nightmares and associated costs. It is the environmentally correct thing to do! :wink:
In the last 5 years I’ve obviously tipped lots. But most places we go tend to add service charge so you end up paying it by card anyway. And in the U.K. we just don’t have a tipping culture so I’ve never tipped takeaway drivers or anyone at the pharmacy. But perhaps I’m just mean.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Hoboh » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:03 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:24 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:55 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:27 pm
Leaving out loyalty cards and online accounts (where you pretty much, de-facto give the retailer permission to record your details) what data do you think you're sharing (and with whom) in a credit / debit card transaction?
Apparently it is not too difficult to clone card information via tap and go and every single transaction you make will be traceable, certain people can block your account that could be extended to perhaps a missed payment or a payment a government department thinks it is due even though you've paid it leaving the onus on you to sort it out, leaving you literally, skint. It is a whole feast of possible problems and control issues waiting to happen is a cashless society.
You cannot, I repeat cannot, clone card information by contactless payment. These stories were myths.

Traceable by who? And what are you trying to hide?

As for blocking your account - what are you on about? Someone can block your bank account for the same reasons whether you pay by cash or card. I think you’ve confused yourself here.
Ffs! You cannot block a hundred quid or whatever in your pocket.
And don't kid yourself people are robbed every day because details of their accounts are floating about.
Really, so it's nonsense a dodgy machine can be hooked up to another? Right I guess it's all bollocks about cloning car key codes then.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Hoboh » Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:09 am

Well these last few months I thought I'd seen everything then up pops a judge and human rights leeches and wham! Back comes a terrorist. To be honest if I saw a judge or a leech on fire I wouldn't unzip my fly just walk on by! The lesson is the state nor the legal system do not have the interests of the vast majority of citizens at heart and they are fuelling the fire that will eventually burn them.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Fri Jul 17, 2020 9:43 am

Hoboh wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 7:03 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:24 pm
Hoboh wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 9:55 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:27 pm
Leaving out loyalty cards and online accounts (where you pretty much, de-facto give the retailer permission to record your details) what data do you think you're sharing (and with whom) in a credit / debit card transaction?
Apparently it is not too difficult to clone card information via tap and go and every single transaction you make will be traceable, certain people can block your account that could be extended to perhaps a missed payment or a payment a government department thinks it is due even though you've paid it leaving the onus on you to sort it out, leaving you literally, skint. It is a whole feast of possible problems and control issues waiting to happen is a cashless society.
You cannot, I repeat cannot, clone card information by contactless payment. These stories were myths.

Traceable by who? And what are you trying to hide?

As for blocking your account - what are you on about? Someone can block your bank account for the same reasons whether you pay by cash or card. I think you’ve confused yourself here.
Ffs! You cannot block a hundred quid or whatever in your pocket.
And don't kid yourself people are robbed every day because details of their accounts are floating about.
Really, so it's nonsense a dodgy machine can be hooked up to another? Right I guess it's all bollocks about cloning car key codes then.
Contactless cards have protections that mean they can't be read in the way the media speculated they could be. Nobody can get your details from you using your card contactlessly. The major card fraud happens when someone asks for your card (say machine isn't working we'll try it in another) and physically swipes it through a card cloner. You have to surrender your card for this to happen.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jul 17, 2020 11:06 am

I'm going to stop using banks. They could be hacked.

Hoboh is correct in part. Systems have holes, but you're much more likely to have some details exfiltrated from somewhere you've made an online purchase than through NFC attack at the moment. The PCI-DSS standard deals with how card data needs to be secured, but the issue is policing it. Similarly GDPR and related legislation covers what data can be retained about you and for how long etc. But it's very broad.

Most new systems are designed to keep data safe, with encryption at rest, in transit and in memory. The problem for a consumer is when you log onto joe.bloggs, you've no idea whether their system is new or old, the standards are generally inspecific around "how", they're specific about "what". So they'll test shit like "We process data in a secure manner". I've lost count of the number of "reputable" financial services that can't patch 15 year old firewalls...if the test is "data is segregated", they get a pass (they're using firewalls)...

Data is typically safe against casual attack. As systems develop, there are increasing levels of sophistication in the defence mechanisms. Much harder to hack a good system delivered this year, than the one that's 10 years old. Problem is, financial institutions have some systems that are 30 years old + in concept.

Bottom line for me, I'm more concerned by things that aren't NFC related...But if Hobes is worried unduly about NFC, he should probably stop using banks and anything around online purchasing.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:39 am

Everything. Every goddamn thing. Not even angry anymore. Just resigned and fed up to the whole situation.

Wake me up in 2023!

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Harry Genshaw » Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:35 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:39 am
Everything. Every goddamn thing. Not even angry anymore. Just resigned and fed up to the whole situation.

Wake me up in 2023!
I know exactly what you mean. It seems there's been a dawning realisation amongst our populous this last week that this is life now for the foreseeable. And it's pretty shit. It's enough to make even the most sunny and optimistic of us to grind our teeth. God alone knows how your type are coping :wink:
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Montreal Wanderer » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:42 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 11:35 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:39 am
Everything. Every goddamn thing. Not even angry anymore. Just resigned and fed up to the whole situation.

Wake me up in 2023!
I know exactly what you mean. It seems there's been a dawning realisation amongst our populous this last week that this is life now for the foreseeable. And it's pretty shit. It's enough to make even the most sunny and optimistic of us to grind our teeth. God alone knows how your type are coping :wink:
Over here we get distressing news about Bolton's part of the world. With all that is happening south of our border (and it is a staggering amount), CNN still finds space to have the Mayor of Greater Manchester holding forth. Trump chortles when he finds any evidence that some country has handled the pandemic worse than his administration (and this is hard to uncover). However, the UK is often held up as an example rightly or wrongly. At these times I scan the pages of TW hoping to find news of how members are handling things and whether they are all right. I find very little mention of Covid 19 here, and just hope everyone is okay.
"If you cannot answer a man's argument, all it not lost; you can still call him vile names. " Elbert Hubbard.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Harry Genshaw » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:31 am

^ Personally speaking Monty, the start of the whole thing felt a bit like a phoney war to me. We were in lockdown, frequently told how serious it was and yet the emergency hospitals remained empty and you barely knew anyone who had it.

Fast forward a few months and I would think everyone knows someone who's had it and the overwhelming majority accept how serious it is.

I'm one of the fortunate ones, so far, in that i haven't had it and I haven't been badly affected by it financially. Quite the opposite, in fact. It's hard to spend your money when nothing is open!

I don't know what the spin is on the TV channels, Monty but Burnham has come away with a lot of credit in this imo.

I hope you and yours are all well and staying safe
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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 21, 2020 9:15 am

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:31 am
^ Personally speaking Monty, the start of the whole thing felt a bit like a phoney war to me. We were in lockdown, frequently told how serious it was and yet the emergency hospitals remained empty and you barely knew anyone who had it.

Fast forward a few months and I would think everyone knows someone who's had it and the overwhelming majority accept how serious it is.

I'm one of the fortunate ones, so far, in that i haven't had it and I haven't been badly affected by it financially. Quite the opposite, in fact. It's hard to spend your money when nothing is open!

I don't know what the spin is on the TV channels, Monty but Burnham has come away with a lot of credit in this imo.

I hope you and yours are all well and staying safe
There are plenty of people - who want to claim it isn't serious. Like you I've been lucky really though I guess like lots my job could disappear at any time. But yeah - I know some people who've had it and its quite a thing. Someone in the street had it - she's over 70 not in best of health but barely knew she had it - was only picked up when she had a cough and was phoning GP about something else and coughed on phone and was sent for a test which was positive. Great concern obviously but after a week of coughing she was absolutely fine.

Also know a bloke from work - early 50s - no conditions whatsoever - got it, recovered after what was like a moderate flu illness, came back to work for a couple of months but now is virtually incapacitated. Has myocarditis, terrible lung capacity and is signed off work. Last update was he'd been admitted to A&E twice in a matter of weeks as he couldn't breathe properly, hooked up to oxygen, but they can't do anything for him beyond that. He's on an exercise program - yet can barely make it to his front door without losing breath.

As for Burnham - the man stood up to this completely corrupt and authoritarian government and will probably pay for it now. But we as a population need to do the same. Stand up to them and stop taking it.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:02 am

I think the older you are, the more serious people take it. (I have no evidence for this wild assertion). I think we're in a place now where the guidance "following the science" has now got more confused and is also driven by a healthy dose of economics, so people are taking their own "risk" views based on their view of the world. If the government determine I can get on a bus and a train to go work in a factory for 8 hours, then going to the pub for 3 hours is minor league.

We're told evidentially that Pubs not serving food is bad, but the same pub with the same layout, if it serves pasty and chips is ok. We should probably draw from that, the conclusion that pasty and chips stops COVID.

Whilst people are being told to work from home, it's fine to use public transport to go to a workplace and hope they're following COVID safety rules - I suspect reputable companies will try to do this and unreputable companies won't. This apparently has negligible effect on transmission.

Schools and Colleges are fine, yet we've seen whole swathes of colleges, universities locked down and schools are sending lots of people home or entire classes to self isolate. We're told that pubs are causing the spikes, yet plague carrying 7 year olds coming back into a home setting is having no effect whatsoever. I don't believe it. Produced evidence on this is pretty scant too.

The upshot of all this is that pubs and gyms (recently recinded) have to shut, whilst workplaces and educational establishments stay open - I've not seen any evidence around this to show it's the right approach and given they've been asked a few times to produce it, I suspect it's a blag.

I agree broadly, with the localised approach. I don't think it'd be right at this juncture to apply the same rules to the South East as the North West - so I'm not convinced a national lockdown works at this stage. I do think we need to be taking more stringent measures in the North West, I think a firebreak approach would be a good idea locally, with additional financial support for low paid workers - which is what the Burnham spat with Government was about.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:49 am

Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:02 am
I think the older you are, the more serious people take it. (I have no evidence for this wild assertion). I think we're in a place now where the guidance "following the science" has now got more confused and is also driven by a healthy dose of economics, so people are taking their own "risk" views based on their view of the world. If the government determine I can get on a bus and a train to go work in a factory for 8 hours, then going to the pub for 3 hours is minor league.

We're told evidentially that Pubs not serving food is bad, but the same pub with the same layout, if it serves pasty and chips is ok. We should probably draw from that, the conclusion that pasty and chips stops COVID.

Whilst people are being told to work from home, it's fine to use public transport to go to a workplace and hope they're following COVID safety rules - I suspect reputable companies will try to do this and unreputable companies won't. This apparently has negligible effect on transmission.

Schools and Colleges are fine, yet we've seen whole swathes of colleges, universities locked down and schools are sending lots of people home or entire classes to self isolate. We're told that pubs are causing the spikes, yet plague carrying 7 year olds coming back into a home setting is having no effect whatsoever. I don't believe it. Produced evidence on this is pretty scant too.

The upshot of all this is that pubs and gyms (recently recinded) have to shut, whilst workplaces and educational establishments stay open - I've not seen any evidence around this to show it's the right approach and given they've been asked a few times to produce it, I suspect it's a blag.

I agree broadly, with the localised approach. I don't think it'd be right at this juncture to apply the same rules to the South East as the North West - so I'm not convinced a national lockdown works at this stage. I do think we need to be taking more stringent measures in the North West, I think a firebreak approach would be a good idea locally, with additional financial support for low paid workers - which is what the Burnham spat with Government was about.
I don't agree about localised approaches for a few reasons -

1) Cases are going up in every region. Yes some are at lower levels initially and rising more slowly - but they're still rising. And the nature of the viral spread is that as you gain more cases the rate of spread also increases.
2) We can look elsewhere at what has worked and frankly the tier 3 measures are not substantive enough to actually be effective. The governments own scientific advisors concede this. But Australia show the sorts of very strict measures needed to drive the case numbers down to a level where you can very slowly open up (we ballsed this up the first time round opening up far too quickly and too soon).
3) Whilst a country like Australia can take a more regionalised approach we need to look at how small we are comparatively, how densely populated and also how much movement we have - far far more than Australia who actually did lock regions down and prevented most movement. Here, if you lock GM down - what about people moving from GM to elsewhere - no control on that and you're talking a lot of people - and a lot of scenarios you couldn't stop even if you wanted to.
4) Local approaches are adhered to less. National lockdown was ultimately applied to everyone so all felt a duty. Whereas local measures are ignored more - speaking to PH leader they felt the data was pretty clear on this.
5) Local stuff by its nature becomes more confusing because the scenarios are wider. What if you work outside the area but live inside it - or visa versa...and then that needs caveats if you aren't closing schools etc....it becomes very very confusing for people.

My major issue generally is that a) we've ballsed this up on a right royal scale, b) there are only two models that have been shown to work - 1) Full lockdown strictly enforced 2) Less lockdown but a very robust and functional, testing and tracing regime - with enforcement and heavy local resourcing.

We've not done 1 - now have the issues and 2 is a million miles off whilst Dido takes her pay cheque and saunters off. The approach we are taking now is effectively the same thing we've been doing for months here and it hasn't worked. And that was during the summer months. The threshold is now smaller by the day yet the measures are less stringent than they were a month back (and they didn't work either). If you're going to close businesses at least do it with measures that will make a difference.

I could go on and on but in short we're led by charlatans handing money out to each other yet not prepared to help their people and wanting local areas to take the brunt for their disastrous Covid handling, incompetence and corruption. And not one word there is even strong enough IMHO to describe how bad they are.

The UK is without doubt in its worst place in my lifetime. I've lived through strikes and recessions and wars. But never, ever, ever have things been this bad. This bleak. And coupled with a government this horrendous before. And not just because they are hopeless either, but because they are nasty, vindictive and verging on downright authoritarians.

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Re: Today I'm angry about.....

Post by dave the minion » Thu Oct 22, 2020 10:26 am

Don't disagree with most of that, however I would add a dose of reality to it: depending on who you listen to and who you believe, we either didn't go into lockdown soon enough, or it was too soon? We either came out of lock down too soon or too late? Closing schools and public transport is either the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do.
The honest truth of this whole shit show is that there simply isn't a right answer - no matter who you are and what you think is right there will be evidence to the contrary somewhere.
If we go into national lockdown and shut schools and businesses then you open up the other issues - which are real - of people's mental health, kids lack of education & economic ruin. If you keep them open then we have to operate in this weird bubble of localised restrictions and kids being sent home and people having to self isolate.
There's no magic wand to fix this. Time and a vaccine will make it peter out, but its here and there is no standard protocol to deal with it as its unprecedented in modern times.
Personally I'm sick of everyone blaming the government but then coming up with nothing better as to how they could have dealt with it. I'm not a Tory and don't care for politics in the slightest, but it is getting very tedious hearing the leaders of the home countries and different political parties point scoring constantly but offering nothing in return. Don't see how they can't just all put party differences aside for the greater good and agree one coherent approach - it might not be the right one and there will be others who dispute it, but at least it would help with communication.
And don't get me started on the media.......
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