24....39....42....HUT! HUT!

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

Looks like you might need a ladder up, never mind a step up. 49ers are one of just two teams with a big fat zero under the win column.

Meanwhile, one of the best touchdowns of last weekend - a 105 yard KO return from the Detroit Lions. Which begs the question - why commit so many men so far up the pitch when you know the kick off is going to come straight back?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GLxNo7c ... re=related

[a1]

Looks like you might need a ladder up, never mind a step up. 49ers are one of just two teams with a big fat zero under the win column.

Meanwhile, one of the best touchdowns of last weekend - a 105 yard KO return from the Detroit Lions. Which begs the question - why commit so many men so far up the pitch when you know the kick off is going to come straight back?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GLxNo7c ... re=related

coz youre better off stopping them on their own 12 yard line than your own five yard line

[Montreal Wanderer]

Looks like you might need a ladder up, never mind a step up. 49ers are one of just two teams with a big fat zero under the win column.

Meanwhile, one of the best touchdowns of last weekend - a 105 yard KO return from the Detroit Lions. Which begs the question - why commit so many men so far up the pitch when you know the kick off is going to come straight back?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GLxNo7c ... re=related

coz youre better off stopping them on their own 12 yard line than your own five yard line

Glad you took that one a1 (it's a bit like explaining cricket to Americans) - you are not only better off territorially but have a better chance to stop them before the returner kicks it into gear, the blockers organize and the seams appear.

[seanworth]

Looks like you might need a ladder up, never mind a step up. 49ers are one of just two teams with a big fat zero under the win column.

Meanwhile, one of the best touchdowns of last weekend - a 105 yard KO return from the Detroit Lions. Which begs the question - why commit so many men so far up the pitch when you know the kick off is going to come straight back?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GLxNo7c ... re=related

Not sure even a ladder is going to help. If they don't win their next one the season will be over.

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

Looks like you might need a ladder up, never mind a step up. 49ers are one of just two teams with a big fat zero under the win column.

Meanwhile, one of the best touchdowns of last weekend - a 105 yard KO return from the Detroit Lions. Which begs the question - why commit so many men so far up the pitch when you know the kick off is going to come straight back?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GLxNo7c ... re=related

coz youre better off stopping them on their own 12 yard line than your own five yard line

But if you're first wave of defence seems to also be your last line of defence (as that defence seemed to be), surely one solitary kicker 40 yards line is no Plan B in case the gaps appear that you can see in this return.

I'm not saying sit deep, or go 4-4-2, just don't let 10 men get picked off and taken out of the game on their 20 yard line and leave your deepest line of defence numbering one.

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

Looks like you might need a ladder up, never mind a step up. 49ers are one of just two teams with a big fat zero under the win column.

Meanwhile, one of the best touchdowns of last weekend - a 105 yard KO return from the Detroit Lions. Which begs the question - why commit so many men so far up the pitch when you know the kick off is going to come straight back?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GLxNo7c ... re=related

coz youre better off stopping them on their own 12 yard line than your own five yard line

Glad you took that one a1 (it's a bit like explaining cricket to Americans) - you are not only better off territorially but have a better chance to stop them before the returner kicks it into gear, the blockers organize and the seams appear.

Is it?

[Montreal Wanderer]

Looks like you might need a ladder up, never mind a step up. 49ers are one of just two teams with a big fat zero under the win column.

Meanwhile, one of the best touchdowns of last weekend - a 105 yard KO return from the Detroit Lions. Which begs the question - why commit so many men so far up the pitch when you know the kick off is going to come straight back?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GLxNo7c ... re=related

coz youre better off stopping them on their own 12 yard line than your own five yard line

Glad you took that one a1 (it's a bit like explaining cricket to Americans) - you are not only better off territorially but have a better chance to stop them before the returner kicks it into gear, the blockers organize and the seams appear.

Is it?

It is difficult to explain the subtleties of a game to people of other cultures and I have given up trying to explain cricket. A question like why don't they keep some men back to wait for the kick returner is not that easy to convey in a short post - some men are kept further back than others in kick coverage but not to the extent of waiting for the long return. It is similar to an American asking why don't defending cricket teams keep nine men in a great circle three quarters of the way to the boundary to prevent 4s, or why don't they wear baseball gloves to be sure of the catch (actually that last is not a bad idea. )

[a1]

But if you're first wave of defence seems to also be your last line of defence (as that defence seemed to be), surely one solitary kicker 40 yards line is no Plan B in case the gaps appear that you can see in this return.

I'm not saying sit deep, or go 4-4-2, just don't let 10 men get picked off and taken out of the game on their 20 yard line and leave your deepest line of defence numbering one.

thats the wrong way round , i dont know much about defensive formations [and even less about punt return defence formations] but the man MW is correct, you stock the 'box' with 6-7 players because you want to stop them as soon as possible, if it doesnt work the safeties [ie, the 2 farthest back] need to as 'the last line of defence'. in that case they'd have been blocked by the offensive tackles / linebackers / even their own marching band or theyve messed up in some other way (someone falls over on your video)

punts returned for touchdown very rarely happen (theyre not super rare) considering there must be about 10 punts / kickoffs a game at least.

i think there were 2 (punt / kickoff returned for touchdown) that week , that one , and i think the jets scored one too.. first time in ages i can remember 2 in a week.

[Montreal Wanderer]

But if you're first wave of defence seems to also be your last line of defence (as that defence seemed to be), surely one solitary kicker 40 yards line is no Plan B in case the gaps appear that you can see in this return.

I'm not saying sit deep, or go 4-4-2, just don't let 10 men get picked off and taken out of the game on their 20 yard line and leave your deepest line of defence numbering one.

thats the wrong way round , i dont know much about defensive formations [and even less about punt return defence formations] but the man MW is correct, you stock the 'box' with 6-7 players because you want to stop them as soon as possible, if it doesnt work the safeties [ie, the 2 farthest back] need to as 'the last line of defence'. in that case they'd have been blocked by the offensive tackles / their own marching band [joke, although true] / linebackers or messed up in some other way (someone falls over on your video)

punts returned for touchdown very rarely happen (theyre not super rare) considering there must be about 10 punts / kickoffs a game at least.

i think there were 2 (punt / kickoff returned for touchdown) that week. first time in ages i can remember 2 in a week.

On punt returns a couple of members get down as fast as they possibly can. If the kick is not too deep the returner may call for a fair catch so no return. If there is a return this first group go in like kamikaze pilots. Often they do not make the tackle but they cause the blockers to commit and the returner to hesitate and then pick his route. The next wave should be looking to gum up the seams in the kick return blocking and make the tackle or force the returner out of bounds. The last line of defense is the kicker (who is usually not that good at tackling) and often a fleet-footed defensive back hangs back to complete the tackle if the returner breaks through. The key is hold the return to less than ten yards so most people have to get down fast. If the return is thirty or forty yards on a forty yard punt there is not much point in kicking at all. It is actually hard to pick off ten men. The returning team is running with their face to the returner and cannot block any old which way. Holding or clipping (blocking from the rear) will negate the return. Missed field goals are easier to return than punts because when kicking a field goal the heavy (leviathan) offensive linemen play to prevent it being blocked - but they are not very fast. When punting quicker men are used (you punt from 15 yards back and take a field goal from about 7).

Kickoff returns are somewhat different. There is no fair catch and every member of the kicking team is onside so can recover the ball. The kicking team can get down faster because there is no line of scrimmage (thus no blocking there) and they all get a running start.

Canadian rules on punts are different and there tend to be more returns. There is no fair catch but the kicking team cannot get within five yards of the returner until he ball is touched.

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

But if you're first wave of defence seems to also be your last line of defence (as that defence seemed to be), surely one solitary kicker 40 yards line is no Plan B in case the gaps appear that you can see in this return.

I'm not saying sit deep, or go 4-4-2, just don't let 10 men get picked off and taken out of the game on their 20 yard line and leave your deepest line of defence numbering one.

thats the wrong way round , i dont know much about defensive formations [and even less about punt return defence formations] but the man MW is correct, you stock the 'box' with 6-7 players because you want to stop them as soon as possible, if it doesnt work the safeties [ie, the 2 farthest back] need to as 'the last line of defence'. in that case they'd have been blocked by the offensive tackles / linebackers / even their own marching band or theyve messed up in some other way (someone falls over on your video)

punts returned for touchdown very rarely happen (theyre not super rare) considering there must be about 10 punts / kickoffs a game at least.

i think there were 2 (punt / kickoff returned for touchdown) that week , that one , and i think the jets scored one too.. first time in ages i can remember 2 in a week.

The Rams have committed ten men in there - all easily picked off. The fellow you say falls over is blocked off a split second before he's on the floor. The result is one attempt at a tackle which is easily avoided. The safeties were so far up it meant a whole expanse of field to run into and score.

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

It is difficult to explain the subtleties of a game to people of other cultures and I have given up trying to explain cricket. A question like why don't they keep some men back to wait for the kick returner is not that easy to convey in a short post - some men are kept further back than others in kick coverage but not to the extent of waiting for the long return. It is similar to an American asking why don't defending cricket teams keep nine men in a great circle three quarters of the way to the boundary to prevent 4s, or why don't they wear baseball gloves to be sure of the catch (actually that last is not a bad idea. )

In a game as tactically complex as American Football, I wouldn't have expected such a gung-ho and naive approach to a kick off return as what's shown in that clip. When I watch the Bears again this weekend I'll need to look at the kick off returns in more detail and see how many they have bombing past the oppo's 30 yard line. In the mean time, I'll just skulk off, suitably patronised.

[a1]

The Rams have committed ten men in there - all easily picked off. The fellow you say falls over is blocked off a split second before he's on the floor. The result is one attempt at a tackle which is easily avoided. The safeties were so far up it meant a whole expanse of field to run into and score.

yeah. once it ballzes up thats it , it goes out the window. if the returner hadve been jumped on by one of the ten , job done. or at least forced him to call fair catch. i'd say the ten didnt get upfeield as fast as MW wanted. they didnt even stay on their feet enough , was like watching dominoes.

but anyway its the rams and the lions, i think theyve won about 4 games between them in about 7 year .

[Montreal Wanderer]

It is difficult to explain the subtleties of a game to people of other cultures and I have given up trying to explain cricket. A question like why don't they keep some men back to wait for the kick returner is not that easy to convey in a short post - some men are kept further back than others in kick coverage but not to the extent of waiting for the long return. It is similar to an American asking why don't defending cricket teams keep nine men in a great circle three quarters of the way to the boundary to prevent 4s, or why don't they wear baseball gloves to be sure of the catch (actually that last is not a bad idea. )

In a game as tactically complex as American Football, I wouldn't have expected such a gung-ho and naive approach to a kick off return as what's shown in that clip. When I watch the Bears again this weekend I'll need to look at the kick off returns in more detail and see how many they have bombing past the oppo's 30 yard line. In the mean time, I'll just skulk off, suitably patronised.

Not patronized, Keeeebers. I was just trying to say it is difficult to explain things. Dujon et al could explain Australian rules football to me until they are blue in the face but I would still be puzzled. Hurling also has subtleties that escape me - indeed I can think of no sensible reason for putting 30 odd Irishmen armed with clubs on a field at all. Nor am I an expert in American football. However it is all about territory and keeping the opponent pinned as deep as possible. My thoughts on the Stature of Liberty play, the Hail Mary, the end around, the red dog blitz and the nickel defense, while I know what they are, would probably not be too enlightening. Sorry for any offense - none was intended.

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

Not patronized, Keeeebers. I was just trying to say it is difficult to explain things. Dujon et al could explain Australian rules football to me until they are blue in the face but I would still be puzzled. Hurling also has subtleties that escape me - indeed I can think of no sensible reason for putting 30 odd Irishmen armed with clubs on a field at all. Nor am I an expert in American football. However it is all about territory and keeping the opponent pinned as deep as possible. My thoughts on the Stature of Liberty play, the Hail Mary, the end around, the red dog blitz and the nickel defense, while I know what they are, would probably not be too enlightening. Sorry for any offense - none was intended.

Fair enough. It'd be good to be enlightened on certain aspects of the game, though.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Not patronized, Keeeebers. I was just trying to say it is difficult to explain things. Dujon et al could explain Australian rules football to me until they are blue in the face but I would still be puzzled. Hurling also has subtleties that escape me - indeed I can think of no sensible reason for putting 30 odd Irishmen armed with clubs on a field at all. Nor am I an expert in American football. However it is all about territory and keeping the opponent pinned as deep as possible. My thoughts on the Stature of Liberty play, the Hail Mary, the end around, the red dog blitz and the nickel defense, while I know what they are, would probably not be too enlightening. Sorry for any offense - none was intended.

Fair enough. It'd be good to be enlightened on certain aspects of the game, though.

i guess you just toss any questions in this thread and someone will venture an answer. There is after all no such thing as a stupid question only...well, you know the rest.

[thebish]

It is difficult to explain the subtleties of a game to people of other cultures and I have given up trying to explain cricket. A question like why don't they keep some men back to wait for the kick returner is not that easy to convey in a short post - some men are kept further back than others in kick coverage but not to the extent of waiting for the long return. It is similar to an American asking why don't defending cricket teams keep nine men in a great circle three quarters of the way to the boundary to prevent 4s, or why don't they wear baseball gloves to be sure of the catch (actually that last is not a bad idea. )

In a game as tactically complex as American Football, I wouldn't have expected such a gung-ho and naive approach to a kick off return as what's shown in that clip. When I watch the Bears again this weekend I'll need to look at the kick off returns in more detail and see how many they have bombing past the oppo's 30 yard line. In the mean time, I'll just skulk off, suitably patronised.

to be fair - maybe not by you - but plenty of sport has been had on these pages because of Americans venturing opinions about "soccer" and how it should be played!

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

to be fair - maybe not by you - but plenty of sport has been had on these pages because of Americans venturing opinions about "soccer" and how it should be played!

I'd check your keyboard there, bish. Because when you typed "Arsenal fans" it came out as "Americans".

[thebish]

to be fair - maybe not by you - but plenty of sport has been had on these pages because of Americans venturing opinions about "soccer" and how it should be played!

I'd check your keyboard there, bish. Because when you typed "Arsenal fans" it came out as "Americans".

[KeeeeeeeBaaaaaaab]

Looks like I jinxed that result. Christ that was the last points they scored and ended up losing 16-14. Any Bruce I appreciate your support but you might have to step up another notch.

The 9ers are at Wembley this weekend, against the Broncos. Having lost to the other team in the whole of the NFL with a record as bad as theirs (Panthers). Well, it WAS as bad as the 9ers, until yesterday....

Not going clever for the Bears - lost for the third time in four yesterday, v the Redskins. We were awful, and hardly ever rush. The passing that's being over-relied upon was picked off 7 times yesterday - 6 times in the second half.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Looks like I jinxed that result. Christ that was the last points they scored and ended up losing 16-14. Any Bruce I appreciate your support but you might have to step up another notch.

The 9ers are at Wembley this weekend, against the Broncos. Having lost to the other team in the whole of the NFL with a record as bad as theirs (Panthers). Well, it WAS as bad as the 9ers, until yesterday....

Not going clever for the Bears - lost for the third time in four yesterday, v the Redskins. We were awful, and hardly ever rush. The passing that's being over-relied upon was picked off 7 times yesterday - 6 times in the second half.

Not sure about the Broncos - my Raiders wracked up 59 points against them yesterday and we are not very good. Sean's 49ers seem worse, so it could be a pretty good game between not so good teams.