creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

[Worthy4England]

To add to this, they're going at a slightly faster run rate than us, but both teams are about 4 (think they're 4.0 we were 3.86) - which suggests that poor balls are generally getting treated with the same level of contempt. On the flip side, they've managed to avoid getting out to as many better balls - this could be because we've bowled less of them, but also they play spin better so they're more likely to make our better balls look like a less better ball, because they move their feet to the pitch better (in general)....

Having seen them now get to 330-5, I think we've likely been deficient in both departments...

[BWFC_Insane]

To add to this, they're going at a slightly faster run rate than us, but both teams are about 4 (think they're 4.0 we were 3.86) - which suggests that poor balls are generally getting treated with the same level of contempt. On the flip side, they've managed to avoid getting out to as many better balls - this could be because we've bowled less of them, but also they play spin better so they're more likely to make our better balls look like a less better ball, because they move their feet to the pitch better (in general)....

Having seen them now get to 330-5, I think we've likely been deficient in both departments...

Nah our bowling has been utterly abysmal. When root is easily our best bowler then you have issues. And frankly the problem is that I think root is a better spinner than the other three. Which speaks to where we are at. There are basics - an inability to build any pressure because every third ball we chuck some filth down. India barely bowled anything approaching a poor delivery.

I mean sure we could have scored more but I think that their bowling was very good on a pitch that was hard to bat on. We have to be realistic in that it’s India and clearly nobody comes and wins here in these conditions or it’s very rare. But the lack of anything approaching a test level spin bowler has now extended a very very long time.

We really were spoiled with Swan.

[Worthy4England]

Yeah - they clearly have much better spinners, but if you look at the wicket balls and maybe Foakes is the best example, it spins dramatically, but he's nowhere near the pitch. As you look through the dismissals, I thought Zak, Rooty and Pope would probably hope to do better, given the same ball again. Duckett/Bairstow are just a faction off the right line against very good balls.

I'm not suggesting the dropping of players or owt, just saying that the margin for error in India is pretty small as we've seen before, and the demons aren't in the pitch coz they're on 420. I didn't see any keep low/spit etc. Small margins, but small margins you need to be on top of to win in India.

Good news is it's well set for an England 600-3 on Day 3/4 to bowl them out on a deteriorating pitch on Day 5, before lunch and have the afternoon off.

[BWFC_Insane]

Yeah - they clearly have much better spinners, but if you look at the wicket balls and maybe Foakes is the best example, it spins dramatically, but he's nowhere near the pitch. As you look through the dismissals, I thought Zak, Rooty and Pope would probably hope to do better, given the same ball again. Duckett/Bairstow are just a faction off the right line against very good balls.

I'm not suggesting the dropping of players or owt, just saying that the margin for error in India is pretty small as we've seen before, and the demons aren't in the pitch coz they're on 420. I didn't see any keep low/spit etc. Small margins, but small margins you need to be on top of to win in India.

Good news is it's well set for an England 600-3 on Day 3/4 to bowl them out on a deteriorating pitch on Day 5, before lunch and have the afternoon off.

One thing I noted is that our footwork was behind the Indians. Which you might expect. But I mean Foakes is a really good player of spin normally so feels like to me that if you can land the ball in the right places on this it’s hard work.

Hopefully we will improve as the series matures.

[Worthy4England]

Yeah - that's pretty much all I'm saying mate - whilst the bowling is a long way short, the batting probably didn't cover itself entirely in glory either.

[jimbo]

Yeah we’re so far behind India. I think there are going to be some really really one sided games. We might be competitive in a couple if our batsmen all fire together. It must be our weakest selection of spinners touring there ever. Hartley is bang average in the championship, and a young leg spinner is never going to be able to offer control. Leach is Leach, and might be injured now anyway. Honestly think picking accurate seamers and ‘bowling dry’ would have been a better tactic than shit spin.

[Worthy4England]

Yeah Jasprit picked up a couple this morning and Root returned our bb figures. Which is great for Rooty, but I'm not sure you really want your 4 bat trundling through 30 overs in the heat and the occasional spinner leading the way...

[BWFC_Insane]

The other thing to note is listening to the Indians they say the pitch is getting slower and slower so the turn and bounce becomes easier to deal with….I guess counterintuitively maybe we should have bowled first….

I doubt it would have made a massive difference with our spin options - they aren’t very good - but maybe would have helped a little.

I think the performance overall is reasonable when you are shoving county level spinners into a test side. We’ve avoided innings defeat embarrassment which I did expect.

[jimbo]

The other thing to note is listening to the Indians they say the pitch is getting slower and slower so the turn and bounce becomes easier to deal with….I guess counterintuitively maybe we should have bowled first….

I doubt it would have made a massive difference with our spin options - they aren’t very good - but maybe would have helped a little.

I think the performance overall is reasonable when you are shoving county level spinners into a test side. We’ve avoided innings defeat embarrassment which I did expect.

It’s debatable really whether Hartley is a county level spinner. He averages high 30s. It was his all round ability that raised him above Parkinson for Lancashire.

Great knock by Pope this. Must be one of his best innings given the pressure and difficulty of the opposition and the wicket.

[jimbo]

It has shown how poor our depth of spinners are in this country. We’ve got away with Leach, Moeen and Rashid for a while, but beyond that there really is a dearth.

[Worthy4England]

Yeah not got TNT so will have to catch highlights. But certainly got to be up the with his best, for Pope.

I'm not sure really why we're still.talking about "the wicket," they didn't have many troubles getting 400 on it and we're now over three hundred in the third innings. Only caught the highlights but I didn't see it doing anything unnatural other than spinning. If I was them, I wouldn't be prepping tracks suiting Bazball either, which is what all teams do at home, try to prep one that enhances the home team's strength.

[Worthy4England]

A snippet that passed me by. It's only Bumrah's 5th test at home...

[BWFC_Insane]

Yeah not got TNT so will have to catch highlights. But certainly got to be up the with his best, for Pope.

I'm not sure really why we're still.talking about "the wicket," they didn't have many troubles getting 400 on it and we're now over three hundred in the third innings. Only caught the highlights but I didn't see it doing anything unnatural other than spinning. If I was them, I wouldn't be prepping tracks suiting Bazball either, which is what all teams do at home, try to prep one that enhances the home team's strength.

Because a slow turner can get easier to bat on over time as this one clearly appears to be….

[Worthy4England]

Well, yes. But that doesn't make it a poor wicket.

[BWFC_Insane]

Well, yes. But that doesn't make it a poor wicket.

Not in any way suggesting it’s a poor track. Just that maybe we misread it as a sideways turning dust bowl that would be impossible to bat last on when instead it’s one of those ones that just gets slower and slightly easier to play on.

I don’t think there is any great shame in this performance I suspect it’s as competitive as you can be in India without any test quality spinners.

[Worthy4England]

Well, yes. But that doesn't make it a poor wicket.

Not in any way suggesting it’s a poor track. Just that maybe we misread it as a sideways turning dust bowl that would be impossible to bat last on when instead it’s one of those ones that just gets slower and slightly easier to play on.

I don’t think there is any great shame in this performance I suspect it’s as competitive as you can be in India without any test quality spinners.

Yes, but the test quality batters still have to bat too. We try to do two things. Dominate with the bat and bowl them out twice. Not sure we'll come out of this with either. This and Aus down under will be a test.

[jimbo]

Well well well. what a turnaround. Amazing we’re in with a chance here and Hartley bowling wonderfully.

[BWFC_Insane]

Regardless of the result….Bazball….its blooming marvelous! What a transformation he and stokes have achieved for this test side.

[Worthy4England]

Yes. Wasn't worried about our ability to score 8 an over on a favourable track. Was worried about us trying to do that in India and Aus. We haven't done that. A more conventional 4 an over, mainly from Pope but well supported by the tail. The difference for me is that we didn't pick "day off" at 120-5 (or whatever we were for 5).

Excellent and as you say WLD it's testament to the approach.

[Worthy4England]

Great knock by Pope this. Must be one of his best innings given the pressure and difficulty of the opposition and the wicket.

It was a very good knock when you posted this but 196 in India (gutted for him that he didn't get to 200), might be one of the best we've ever seen. Pity I didn't because it's on TNT.