creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

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Worthy4England
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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:33 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:07 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:04 pm
Not sure (still) whether the toss was the determinant of the result. Certainly a strange one but, when you factor in some poor shot selection by England in 1st innings, some poor lines bowled by England in first innings, second England inning collapse (5-30?), afternoon session today (dropping Blackwood on 20 and a few other misses), then I think there were plenty of chances to do things better regardless of the toss.

I think Root comes in for Denly. I'm still not convinced by Buttler. Then there's what do you do with Broad...
Yeah - Root for Denly.

Buttler is a good player IMHO but he's clearly overthinking things in his head about what he needs to do at test matches - he should in my view be given licence to play the attacking brand he did for the ODI side. Like Gilchrist was for Australia - it won't always work but ultimately its better than a confused Buttler all over the crease scratching round for 10 then being bowled. We either give him a proper attacking licence or make a change. If you change do you go Bairstow or Foakes?

As for Broad - its weird because Southampton would have ideally suited him whereas you'd say OT is more suited to Wood. I guess Wood won't play all three so it will I assume be a question of which one Broad plays and which one Wood plays. I mean Broad is a better bowler by a mile in England but I can see the idea - get an attack capable of bowling in Australia ready - we know Broad and Anderson are a deadloss as your headline attack down in Australia now. I'd be tempted to rest Wood next test to avoid him breaking and bring Broad back in then review after that.

Id also question whether Bess is really best we've got.
Ok so we got Root for Denly. Guessing we'd both retain Crawley.

On the wicket-keeper - I just looked back from where Bairstow started to probably go off the boil a bit - West Indies away - he's averaged ~18.6 since then. Nowhere near good enough to get a place - but then I look at Buttler over the same period - he's averaging ~23.2 since then, better, but not good enough for an international keeper. Foakes only played in Sri Lanka (good series - averaged about 70) and West Indies (poor series - averaged 13.7). It's looking a bit of a problem for us at the moment - none of them have a great record against faster bowling attacks...

I think Wood and Archer has plenty of promise for down under - we'll need them, we have to let the Aussies know they can get back what they hand out. Given the pitch and the conditions last week, it sort of felt more like a Broad pitch than a Wood pitch. But having said that, Stokes was probably out stand-out across both innings...rather than Anderson or Archer.

Looking at the weather, I think I'd go Root for Denly, move Pope to WK and play Broad for Wood. The question is what to do about Buttler and whether to play an extra batter or an extra bowler. I gotta say, really not sure. I think we need more batting, but would you retain Denly for Buttler? Probably not. Curran? Not sure yet about Curran but could give us a bit of bat or bowl. Woakes bowls and bats.

Having given it some thought, I think I'd bring Woakes or Curran in for Buttler.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:00 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 3:33 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:07 am
Worthy4England wrote:
Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:04 pm
Not sure (still) whether the toss was the determinant of the result. Certainly a strange one but, when you factor in some poor shot selection by England in 1st innings, some poor lines bowled by England in first innings, second England inning collapse (5-30?), afternoon session today (dropping Blackwood on 20 and a few other misses), then I think there were plenty of chances to do things better regardless of the toss.

I think Root comes in for Denly. I'm still not convinced by Buttler. Then there's what do you do with Broad...
Yeah - Root for Denly.

Buttler is a good player IMHO but he's clearly overthinking things in his head about what he needs to do at test matches - he should in my view be given licence to play the attacking brand he did for the ODI side. Like Gilchrist was for Australia - it won't always work but ultimately its better than a confused Buttler all over the crease scratching round for 10 then being bowled. We either give him a proper attacking licence or make a change. If you change do you go Bairstow or Foakes?

As for Broad - its weird because Southampton would have ideally suited him whereas you'd say OT is more suited to Wood. I guess Wood won't play all three so it will I assume be a question of which one Broad plays and which one Wood plays. I mean Broad is a better bowler by a mile in England but I can see the idea - get an attack capable of bowling in Australia ready - we know Broad and Anderson are a deadloss as your headline attack down in Australia now. I'd be tempted to rest Wood next test to avoid him breaking and bring Broad back in then review after that.

Id also question whether Bess is really best we've got.
Ok so we got Root for Denly. Guessing we'd both retain Crawley.

On the wicket-keeper - I just looked back from where Bairstow started to probably go off the boil a bit - West Indies away - he's averaged ~18.6 since then. Nowhere near good enough to get a place - but then I look at Buttler over the same period - he's averaging ~23.2 since then, better, but not good enough for an international keeper. Foakes only played in Sri Lanka (good series - averaged about 70) and West Indies (poor series - averaged 13.7). It's looking a bit of a problem for us at the moment - none of them have a great record against faster bowling attacks...

I think Wood and Archer has plenty of promise for down under - we'll need them, we have to let the Aussies know they can get back what they hand out. Given the pitch and the conditions last week, it sort of felt more like a Broad pitch than a Wood pitch. But having said that, Stokes was probably out stand-out across both innings...rather than Anderson or Archer.

Looking at the weather, I think I'd go Root for Denly, move Pope to WK and play Broad for Wood. The question is what to do about Buttler and whether to play an extra batter or an extra bowler. I gotta say, really not sure. I think we need more batting, but would you retain Denly for Buttler? Probably not. Curran? Not sure yet about Curran but could give us a bit of bat or bowl. Woakes bowls and bats.

Having given it some thought, I think I'd bring Woakes or Curran in for Buttler.
If Buttler isn't keeping then I'd agree he's not worth his place - he's a test level wicket keeper batsman IMHO who needs some help with his batting role in the side.

Pope is a good shout for the gloves. I like Curran and Woakes but then you''re attack is Anderson, Broad, Curran/Woakes plus Archer and Stokes. So you've basically got Jofra as your only option with real pace the rest are all sort of dependent upon pitch/conditions as to how effective they are. Which may be fine but again starts to look a bit one dimensional.

You could say bring Moeen in for Buttler - another attacking batsman who can bowl spin - then you've got Bess and Moeen at OT where spin often is important. Then I'd say you're decision is whether Broad/Anderson or Wood gets the 4th seamer berth. You could even decide whether Bess plays or you have an extra seamer who can bat in Curran/Woakes - again depends on conditions.

I personally think Archer whilst disappointing 1st innings put a spell in second innings that no other bowler we've got can come close to - took the pace off, was accurate, at the stumps and then every so often put a fast short one in - he's not yet consistent but when he's on form nobody we've got is near his ability. I think he needs to play as many tests as possible.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Worthy4England » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:10 pm

Archer isn't going to do it every innings - so wasn't disappointed over all :-) He helped get us a foothold in that final innings which could have made a difference on another day.

If you make space with Buttler going out, then you could of course play Wood and Broad if you wanted to. That tail looks rather long at that point.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:19 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 4:10 pm
Archer isn't going to do it every innings - so wasn't disappointed over all :-) He helped get us a foothold in that final innings which could have made a difference on another day.

If you make space with Buttler going out, then you could of course play Wood and Broad if you wanted to. That tail looks rather long at that point.
Yeah I'm not convinced weakening our batting line up is advantageous. But there are options. We're really blessed with far too many bowlers and all rounders - yet Root aside don't think we have one truly test class batsman (yet) - and I guess until one or two of these younger lads develop we are tinkering around the edges a bit.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Prufrock » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:15 am

Really top work, Joff.
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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:06 am

So toss today - what would you do? Overcast conditions - likely to be that way for first three days.

For me today I'd bat - yes pitch might have movement in it early on and conditions will be tricky. But this pitch will likely take spin later on in the piece and frankly I don't think we want to expose our lineup and left handers to batting last.

But we need to bat properly and put a score up.


As for Jofra - its a shame - a huge shame. England's plans look all over the place now - with Wood and Anderson clearly being rested - we've now lost our two genuine quicks on the fastest pitch and the hometown boy...its shambolic...sort of.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Prufrock » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:03 pm

Interesting. I'd have batted too.

Big game for Dom Bess potentially. And Stuart Broad with fire under him.
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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Prufrock » Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:07 pm

A lot more batting in that bowling line up tbf. Not that that should be the priority.

Interesting to see how the likes of Gabriel in particular hold up.
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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Prufrock » Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:31 pm

Ffs that was going well.

Absolutely shambolic review. As out as out can be. Dead straight from a non spinning spinner. Middle of middle.
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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:14 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:31 pm
Ffs that was going well.

Absolutely shambolic review. As out as out can be. Dead straight from a non spinning spinner. Middle of middle.
Yeah and it’s got worse. Part time spinner takes England apart. Feels like 80s all over again,

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by BWFC_Insane » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:46 pm

Well that was a good day for England. Really old fashioned tradition test match batting. Perhaps a bit too much at times....it’s fine going slow so long as we don’t collapse tomorrow with the new ball. Felt evening session the bowlers tired and there were opportunities to push it on a bit. We were wary of the swing to be fair.

But put in and only 3 down is always good. Need to bat sensibly tomorrow not throw it away and make sure we get 350 minimum. The batting line up looks long and if the Windies bowlers who look really tired can be seen off tomorrow morning and we don’t do our usual collapse could be a very long day for them tomorrow.....

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:11 pm

Good century by Sibley. A bit Chris Tavare and a long way from chanceless, but we need this level of determination up top.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Prufrock » Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:46 pm

Well done you two. Time to give it a bit more gas now
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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:19 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:46 pm
Well done you two. Time to give it a bit more gas now
Indeed well done. Not sure Sibley has a "more gas" pedal...

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Prufrock » Fri Jul 17, 2020 2:41 pm

Fair, though he's trying.

And Ben certainly does!
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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by Worthy4England » Fri Jul 17, 2020 3:24 pm

All set up nicely for a "Buttler"

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:39 am

England are missing Jofra here big time. No way would Joseph be still in if he was facing that sort of aggressive stuff with the odd one fast and straight. The attack we’ve got is a bit one dimensional.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Jul 19, 2020 11:39 am

England are missing Jofra here big time. No way would Joseph be still in if he was facing that sort of aggressive stuff with the odd one fast and straight. The attack we’ve got is a bit one dimensional.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by BWFC_Insane » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:13 pm

Bat for 8 more overs tomorrow. Another 40 runs or so. Stick em back in. England can win this but can’t waste time. Better to lose in this circumstance than play safe and draw.

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Re: creeeeeeeekeeeeeet

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:17 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:13 pm
Bat for 8 more overs tomorrow. Another 40 runs or so. Stick em back in. England can win this but can’t waste time. Better to lose in this circumstance than play safe and draw.
? We're already one down.......
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