The middle East

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And in Egypt the regime inches back to pre-revolutionary 'normalcy' with the proposed banning of the Moslem Brotherhood (like that has worked many times before!) and the army and police in effective and brutal control.

Shirley Williams in The Guardian calls for a positive approach to involve Iran with the Syria situation. (A better position than her earlier advocacy of bringing peace via cruise missiles).

The ripples of the house of commons decision continue with the French Assembly now debating the intervention (and polls showing the public over 60% in opposition).

...and meanwhile, not forgetting those recent bastions of democracy outside of the glare of the world's media: state, society and individual freedoms in Tunisia and Libya continue to go to hell in a handcart.

That's certainly possible but if Egypt is hell and Syria is a raging inferno they are nowhere near either and the handcart is on a pretty slow trundle, particularly, it seems, in Tunisia...

only because all the Islamists are concentrating around the east of Benghazi and Sinai for strategic reasons. The so-called police state you are attributing to Egypt has never left Tunisia.

Here is a quote from a German* newspaper just last week..."Tunisia is sinking ever deeper into a political crisis. There were fresh clashes between supporters and opponents of the Islamist-dominated government following the murder of the left-wing opposition politician Mohamed Brahmi on July 25. The gap between the two sides seems to be unbridgeable. The death of eight soldiers in fighting with armed extremists seems to have heightened the tension further."
[*German, because as I said, our media have conveniently forgotten about the wellspring of the so-called Arab Spring]
It isn't any different there than in Egypt, and it is significantly worse in Libya.
Algeria, meanwhile, that didn't undergo any spring-like tendencies, because they got over their Islamist dominated party political impasse over a decade ago, is relatively peaceful.
And by the way, Tunisia which has had longer at this western democracy malarky still has an interim Prime Minister with one very unsatisfactory election under its belt, meanwhile your so-called police state has managed five elections, (1x regional, 2 rounds of parlimentary, and 2 rounds of Presidential) - it might be worth noting that the regional and Parliamentary elections were undisturbed and parliament is still functioning, it was only the Presidential one that was overturned and after a year of Morsi's incumbency.
And PS there is no proposed banning of the Muslim Brotherhood - in Egypt it always has been; it was banned under Morsi just as it was under Mubarak, the fact a blind eye has been turned to it for eighteen months doesn't mean it was banned from taking part in the elections, it is banned as an organisation, and it is still banned. You're mixing your Freedom & Justice Party up with your banned Muslim Brotherhood membership.

[William the White]

And PS there is no proposed banning of the Muslim Brotherhood - in Egypt it always has been; it was banned under Morsi just as it was under Mubarak, the fact a blind eye has been turned to it for eighteen months doesn't mean it was banned from taking part in the elections, it is banned as an organisation, and it is still banned. You're mixing your Freedom & Justice Party up with your banned Muslim Brotherhood membership.

i haven't got time and space atm for a full reply - but the Muslim Brotherhood registered in march as a civil association. It is proposed by a panel of judges to dissolve it.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And PS there is no proposed banning of the Muslim Brotherhood - in Egypt it always has been; it was banned under Morsi just as it was under Mubarak, the fact a blind eye has been turned to it for eighteen months doesn't mean it was banned from taking part in the elections, it is banned as an organisation, and it is still banned. You're mixing your Freedom & Justice Party up with your banned Muslim Brotherhood membership.

i haven't got time and space atm for a full reply - but the Muslim Brotherhood registered in march as a civil association. It is proposed by a panel of judges to dissolve it.

So. Prior to March, under both Morsi and Mubarak, the Muslim Brotherhood was a banned organisation. Including during the elections. Which is exactly what I said. It's no good getting all upset about an organisation being banned when it already was. It was banned, by the way, because they were a barbaric conglomeration of single minded individuals who would rather kill somebody than engage in a democratic process

[Lost Leopard Spot]

^ plus, the Muslim Brotherhood is a pan-Arab Islamist movement that is pretty much banned throughout the whole of the middle east, and has been for decades. It is not some sort of equivalent to the Lib Dems, it's more of a template for al-Quaeda.

[William the White]

And PS there is no proposed banning of the Muslim Brotherhood - in Egypt it always has been; it was banned under Morsi just as it was under Mubarak, the fact a blind eye has been turned to it for eighteen months doesn't mean it was banned from taking part in the elections, it is banned as an organisation, and it is still banned. You're mixing your Freedom & Justice Party up with your banned Muslim Brotherhood membership.

i haven't got time and space atm for a full reply - but the Muslim Brotherhood registered in march as a civil association. It is proposed by a panel of judges to dissolve it.

So. Prior to March, under both Morsi and Mubarak, the Muslim Brotherhood was a banned organisation. Including during the elections. Which is exactly what I said. It's no good getting all upset about an organisation being banned when it already was. It was banned, by the way, because they were a barbaric conglomeration of single minded individuals who would rather kill somebody than engage in a democratic process

'Barbarism' might look something like this - novelist Ahdaf Soueif's description of life in Cairo under the army's benign reign...


For several nights after the curfew was declared on 14 August, the streets of Cairo were quieter and darker than I'd ever seen them. As quiet as the morgue, the saying goes, except that our morgue, in Zeinhom, was the busiest place in the city: the dead arriving in scores; giant, refrigerated meat trucks parked in the narrow road to hold the corpses the morgue could not accommodate; relatives and friends, distraught, trying to access bodies; residents burning incense on the street to try to mitigate the smell … The morgue is the point to which our reality keeps returning.

For me, I despise the politics of the Moslem Brotherhood, and, even more, I despise the murderous actions of the Egyptian army, a force built more to oppress its own people than face any external threat...

I'm glad that people like Ahdaf Soueif exist and are writing. (I'm reading her novel 'The Map of Love' at the moment).

[Bruce Rioja]

I was going to have a crack at solving the problems of the Middle East but then I remembered - I have cheeses and wine on the table here and a day off ahead of me. So feck 'em, quite frankly.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And PS there is no proposed banning of the Muslim Brotherhood - in Egypt it always has been; it was banned under Morsi just as it was under Mubarak, the fact a blind eye has been turned to it for eighteen months doesn't mean it was banned from taking part in the elections, it is banned as an organisation, and it is still banned. You're mixing your Freedom & Justice Party up with your banned Muslim Brotherhood membership.

i haven't got time and space atm for a full reply - but the Muslim Brotherhood registered in march as a civil association. It is proposed by a panel of judges to dissolve it.

So. Prior to March, under both Morsi and Mubarak, the Muslim Brotherhood was a banned organisation. Including during the elections. Which is exactly what I said. It's no good getting all upset about an organisation being banned when it already was. It was banned, by the way, because they were a barbaric conglomeration of single minded individuals who would rather kill somebody than engage in a democratic process

'Barbarism' might look something like this - novelist Ahdaf Soueif's description of life in Cairo under the army's benign reign...


For several nights after the curfew was declared on 14 August, the streets of Cairo were quieter and darker than I'd ever seen them. As quiet as the morgue, the saying goes, except that our morgue, in Zeinhom, was the busiest place in the city: the dead arriving in scores; giant, refrigerated meat trucks parked in the narrow road to hold the corpses the morgue could not accommodate; relatives and friends, distraught, trying to access bodies; residents burning incense on the street to try to mitigate the smell … The morgue is the point to which our reality keeps returning.

For me, I despise the politics of the Moslem Brotherhood, and, even more, I despise the murderous actions of the Egyptian army, a force built more to oppress its own people than face any external threat...

I'm glad that people like Ahdaf Soueif exist and are writing. (I'm reading her novel 'The Map of Love' at the moment).

O believe me, I'm not claiming for a single second that barbarism resides on one side here, far from it. It appears to be embedded within the general middle east population. One might almost conclude that it was a life-style choice if one was to be cynical.

[TANGODANCER]

I was going to have a crack at solving the problems of the Middle East but then I remembered - I have cheeses and wine on the table here and a day off ahead of me. So feck 'em, quite frankly.

I had a similar situation yesterday, but I decided none of them were likely to take any notice of me, so I mowed the lawns instead. Glad I did, it's pxxsing down today.

[William the White]

O believe me, I'm not claiming for a single second that barbarism resides on one side here, far from it. It appears to be embedded within the general middle east population. One might almost conclude that it was a life-style choice if one was to be cynical.

Or really stupid.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

O believe me, I'm not claiming for a single second that barbarism resides on one side here, far from it. It appears to be embedded within the general middle east population. One might almost conclude that it was a life-style choice if one was to be cynical.

Or really stupid.

Well you're the one who coined this little gem... "For me, I despise the politics of the Moslem Brotherhood, and, even more, I despise the murderous actions of the Egyptian army, a force built more to oppress its own people than face any external threat... "
What excatly do you think the Moslem Brotherhood have been up to in Sinai for the past year - hardly politicking. They've been killing the army and police forces stationed there. But that's OK because they need killing, oppressing their own people as they do, eh?

[William the White]

O believe me, I'm not claiming for a single second that barbarism resides on one side here, far from it. It appears to be embedded within the general middle east population. One might almost conclude that it was a life-style choice if one was to be cynical.

Or really stupid.

Well you're the one who coined this little gem... "For me, I despise the politics of the Moslem Brotherhood, and, even more, I despise the murderous actions of the Egyptian army, a force built more to oppress its own people than face any external threat... "
What excatly do you think the Moslem Brotherhood have been up to in Sinai for the past year - hardly politicking. They've been killing the army and police forces stationed there. But that's OK because they need killing, oppressing their own people as they do, eh?

To despise does not mean to support murder...

You really cannot find in any post of mine support for killing...

Do feel free to exercise your imagination elsewhere...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

O believe me, I'm not claiming for a single second that barbarism resides on one side here, far from it. It appears to be embedded within the general middle east population. One might almost conclude that it was a life-style choice if one was to be cynical.

Or really stupid.

Well you're the one who coined this little gem... "For me, I despise the politics of the Moslem Brotherhood, and, even more, I despise the murderous actions of the Egyptian army, a force built more to oppress its own people than face any external threat... "
What excatly do you think the Moslem Brotherhood have been up to in Sinai for the past year - hardly politicking. They've been killing the army and police forces stationed there. But that's OK because they need killing, oppressing their own people as they do, eh?

To despise does not mean to support murder...

You really cannot find in any post of mine support for killing...

Do feel free to exercise your imagination elsewhere...

You condemn the Egyptian army for their "murderous actions"
You condemn the Muslim Brotherhood for their "politics"

[William the White]

O believe me, I'm not claiming for a single second that barbarism resides on one side here, far from it. It appears to be embedded within the general middle east population. One might almost conclude that it was a life-style choice if one was to be cynical.

Or really stupid.

Well you're the one who coined this little gem... "For me, I despise the politics of the Moslem Brotherhood, and, even more, I despise the murderous actions of the Egyptian army, a force built more to oppress its own people than face any external threat... "
What excatly do you think the Moslem Brotherhood have been up to in Sinai for the past year - hardly politicking. They've been killing the army and police forces stationed there. But that's OK because they need killing, oppressing their own people as they do, eh?

To despise does not mean to support murder...

You really cannot find in any post of mine support for killing...

Do feel free to exercise your imagination elsewhere...

You condemn the Egyptian army for their "murderous actions"
You condemn the Muslim Brotherhood for their "politics"

[mummywhycantieatcrayons]

[Hoboh]

Seems there is only two ways in the Middle East, Dictators or Rabble.
For the life of me I cannot think of one country over there that has any real democracy with the exception of Isreal and they are so paranoid over their position (quite rightly given their neighbours) that they always vote for a hawkish government.
That place really seems destined to be the worlds end.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Meanwhile in other news in the middle east in another notorious police state...Police take 'suspicious fruit' into their possession after claims it could have been used in black magic during elections. A coconut, described as being 'young', has been arrested, I shit you not...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/s ... te-rigging

[TANGODANCER]

Meanwhile in other news in the middle east in another notorious police state...Police take 'suspicious fruit' into their possession after claims it could have been used in black magic during elections. A coconut, described as being 'young', has been arrested, I shit you not...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/s ... te-rigging

Kid Creole is on his way at this moment.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Middle East life-style choice. Home videos released today in Syria x 4
1. A farmer called Issa with his pals (who declined to be identified by name) captured, stripped, beat, tied hands behind back and then executed, by bullet to head, seven Syrian army soldiers. All involved, apart from the soldiers, are shown having tremendous fun. Issa is quoted as saying the beating and execution had been filmed because such footage impresses private donors.
2. Hezbollah release footage showing scenes of them castrating insurgent prisoners. Tasty.
3. Not to be outdone a smuggled video from Idlib province shows four Syrian army soldiers string up with wire a youth caught trying to blow up tanks (who himself had photographs of tortured Syrian army soldiers on his phone - state of the fxckin art phone too). After, or possibly just before, he dies the soldiers are shown sawing his genitals off and then using him as target practice. Nice.
4. Obviously feeling left out by all this sudden release of holiday videos flooding the country, a certain organisation called the Nusra Front (Islamists apparently) decide to release an instructional home video of how not to go about beheading suspected kaffirs. It takes them nearly six minutes to take the head of a female. Very inappropriately dressed she was too - face, hair, tits: all showing. But then she was an Alawite who had married a Muslim (that was her crime by the way, that or she'd failed to repent or some other bollocks) so that was ok then because she obviously had no shame.

[thebish]

^ I'm sure there's some deep point to this, I'm just struggling to grasp what it is...

[Montreal Wanderer]

^ I'm sure there's some deep point to this, I'm just struggling to grasp what it is...

Either that there are no nice sides in Syria or possibly there are few nice Muslims.