The Weather

[Montreal Wanderer]

Lessons to be learned: don't explore Antarctica in January.

Right Dan but that is the warmest (so to speak) month.

[bobo the clown]

Although it's not funny I had to chuckle over the situation in Antarctica. Should you have read about it then please ignore.

1) A Russian ship with scientists and a few 'passengers' aboard undertakes an expedition in order to investigate global warming.
2) The Russian ship gets stuck in ice.
3) A Chinese ice-breaker comes to its rescue.
4) The Chinese ship gets jammed in the ice.
5) An Australian ice-breaker comes to the rescue of the Russian and Chinese ships.
6) The Australian ship is forced by weather and ice conditions to call a halt some 25/30 nautical miles from the Russian ship.
7) When the weather eases the Chinese ship deploys its helicopter and ferries the supernumeraries from the Russian ship to the Australian ship.
08) The Australian ship sets course for the Antarctic base known as Casey in order to re-supply the base - its original mission - and drop its unexpected load of people.
9) The Chinese ship then asks the Australian ship to wait a bit as the Chinese ship is now really stuck.
10) The Australian ship does so and stays in clear water.
11) The Chinese ship's Master advises that he's now got partially free of the ice.
12) The Australian ship carries on to Casey.
13) The Russian ship confirms that it's well and truly stuck in significant ice.
14) The Chinese ship, given its own situation, is unable to assist.
15) The US of A either offers or is coerced into offering assistance via its ice-breaker currently moored in Sydney.
16) (To be continued)

.... &, if I understand it correctly, the 'supernumeraries' on board the Russian ship were largely Western tree huggers.

"Hey guys, thanks for your donations. They've allowed me a nice exciting holiday to witness that Antarctica is like really, really cold".
Well, blow me over with a feather and call me Mildred treehugger, you may be onto something there.

[Dujon]

Don't worry, Dan, you have fallen into a trap laid for young players. It's easy for a northern hemisphere resident to forget that the southern hemisphere exists. Monty, of course, is correct. It's mid-summer in Antarctica at the moment.

I'm not sure, bobo, as to who the passengers were. The scientists (the majority of the non-crew complement) were reportedly testing the waters - if you will excuse the phrase - by following Mawson's expedition of 1912/1913. I presume that they were attempting to compare the weather readings and rate of ice formation of a century ago to those of today. Should a paper be written on their findings be published it could make interesting reading.

[bwfcdan94]

So then personally if this sort of thing can happen in January then I am not sure exploring Antarctica would ever be a good idea, just think how much added expense to this survey ahs been occurred to this expedition due to the many f**k ups. I is surely getting to the stage where any benefit of going on this expedition has been lost because of the problems.

[Dujon]

No, Dan. The costs will be minimal in the greater scheme of things. All the ships other than the US one were already in the area. If I recall correctly the Australian ship was the farthest away - about five days sailing time. The US ship will take around seven to ten days to travel to the area.

Research is always being undertaken in the Antarctic. Now is the time for ships to access the various sites to replenish stores and equipment and to embark/disembark personnel. Some bases do have airfields but given the weather these are even more limited for use than are ships. Unlike the Arctic, which consists of ice, Antarctica is a continent. It's a big one too. If you think that Australia, the USofA and Canada are big then Antarctica dwarfs them. It's about 14,000,000 square kilometres in area. I have no idea as to the areas of the various 'ice shelves' which attach themselves to the mainland but I suspect that they are quite significant.

Sorry. I didn't intend this to some sort of geography lesson.

[Hoboh]

No, Dan. The costs will be minimal in the greater scheme of things. All the ships other than the US one were already in the area. If I recall correctly the Australian ship was the farthest away - about five days sailing time. The US ship will take around seven to ten days to travel to the area.

Research is always being undertaken in the Antarctic. Now is the time for ships to access the various sites to replenish stores and equipment and to embark/disembark personnel. Some bases do have airfields but given the weather these are even more limited for use than are ships. Unlike the Arctic, which consists of ice, Antarctica is a continent. It's a big one too. If you think that Australia, the USofA and Canada are big then Antarctica dwarfs them. It's about 14,000,000 square kilometres in area. I have no idea as to the areas of the various 'ice shelves' which attach themselves to the mainland but I suspect that they are quite significant.



Sorry. I didn't intend this to some sort of geography lesson.

Always wondered about this, who sponsers them, Iceland?

[Montreal Wanderer]

No, Dan. The costs will be minimal in the greater scheme of things. All the ships other than the US one were already in the area. If I recall correctly the Australian ship was the farthest away - about five days sailing time. The US ship will take around seven to ten days to travel to the area.

Research is always being undertaken in the Antarctic. Now is the time for ships to access the various sites to replenish stores and equipment and to embark/disembark personnel. Some bases do have airfields but given the weather these are even more limited for use than are ships. Unlike the Arctic, which consists of ice, Antarctica is a continent. It's a big one too. If you think that Australia, the USofA and Canada are big then Antarctica dwarfs them. It's about 14,000,000 square kilometres in area. I have no idea as to the areas of the various 'ice shelves' which attach themselves to the mainland but I suspect that they are quite significant.

Sorry. I didn't intend this to some sort of geography lesson.

It also had 90% of the world's ice. Take that Greenland, eh Spotty?. BTW, Dujon, the continent of North America is bigger than Antarctica, unlike the continent of Ozia .

[Dujon]

Nah, get off, Hoboh! It's the Scots looking for the perfect ice to package with their liquor.

[Dujon]

OY! Monty, I didn't suggest otherwise. You might note that I differentiated between your country and 'the others'.

[Hoboh]

So what do the scientists say, not the bureaucratic bodies funded by government grants and not brainwashed trolls but the scientists themselves

Dr Mike Hulme, a prominent climate scientist and UN-IPCC insider. NOT a sceptic of AGW to my knowledge

The UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change misled the press and public into believing that thousands of scientists backed its claims on manmade global warming, The actual number of scientists who backed that claim was “only a few dozen experts,” he states in a paper for Progress in Physical Geography.

“Claims such as ‘2,500 of the world’s leading scientists have reached a consensus that human activities are having a significant influence on the climate’ are disingenuous,” the paper states unambiguously, adding that they rendered “the IPCC vulnerable to outside criticism.”

&

Dr Benjamin Santer, author of the 2007 IPCC report chapter on the detection of greenhouse warming - NOT A SCEPTIC of AGW to my knowledge.

"It's unfortunate that many people read the media hype before they read the (IPCC report) chapter "on the detection of greenhouse warming." I think the caveats are there. We say quite clearly that few scientists would say that the attribution issue [man-made climate change] is a done deal.

&

Dr Richard Lindzen (Atmospheric Scientist) Professor at MIT UN-IPCC Lead Author

“The consensus was reached before the research had even begun.”

"It's not 2,500 people offering their consensus, I participated in that. Each person who is an author writes one or two pages in conjunction with someone else...but ultimately, it is written by representatives of governments, of environmental organizations like the Union of Concerned Scientists, and industrial organizations, each seeking their own benefit.”

&

Dr John Christy – Professor and Director of the Earth System Science Centre at the University of Alabama, Huntsville (also Alabama State Climatologist) UN IPCC Lead Author writes:

"I don't see a catastrophe developing from our emissions into the air of what should be correctly identified as ‘plant food.'"

“Scepticism, a hallmark of science, is frowned upon. (I suspect the IPCC bureaucracy cringes whenever I'm identified as an IPCC Lead Author}. The tendency to succumb to group-think and the herd-instinct (now formally called the "informational cascade") is perhaps as tempting among scientists as any group because we, by definition, must be the "ones who know" (from the Latin sciere, to know).”

&

Russia - Dr Yury Izrael, past UN IPCC Vice President, director of Global Climate and Ecology Institute, member of the Russian Academy of Sciences.

"There is no proven link between human activity and global warming.”

&

USA - Dr. Charles Wax, past president of the American Association of State Climatologists.

“First off, there isn't a consensus among scientists. Don't let anybody tell you there is.”

[Prufrock]

But its so obvious. Not a single reputable scientific body denies climate change is happening. And if its happening, and it might be man made, and there certainly isn't compelling evidence it isn't, then the only sensible option is to try to cut down the effect man has or may have. It is man made, hooray, if it isn't, well we're still a lot more efficient as using finite resources, so hooray anyway.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

And to point also that Hoboh quotes one scientist as saying there is no concensus followed by another who said the consensus was reached before the reseach was begun. So Hoboh's experts can't even agree on what it is they don't agree on. Some fecking expert witnesses they are...

[boltonboris]

Climate change is a natural thing that has happened many many many times before now. I don't think it's up for dispute, that man is clearly accelerating the process though.

[Montreal Wanderer]

Climate change is a natural thing that has happened many many many times before now. I don't think it's up for dispute, that man is clearly accelerating the process though.

This is true. It is also true massive meteor strikes can affect the climate. I don't think scientists disagree climate change happens, but rather of the rate and extent to which man is responsible.

[Hoboh]

You see this is the thing,

GLOBAL WARMING

is now

CLIMATE CHANGE

Does this mean Ski's or sun tan cream and Ice cold beer for Blackpool?
Was rather hoping for the Costa Del Lancs!

[thebish]

You see this is the thing,

GLOBAL WARMING

is now

CLIMATE CHANGE

no it's not - the latter is studied as a consequence of the former... both terms have long been used as they mean different things.

[Hoboh]

You see this is the thing,

GLOBAL WARMING

is now

CLIMATE CHANGE

no it's not - the latter is studied as a consequence of the former... both terms have long been used as they mean different things.

Oh right so someone hijacked one of your sermons??

[thebish]

eh?

[bwfcdan94]

No, Dan. The costs will be minimal in the greater scheme of things. All the ships other than the US one were already in the area. If I recall correctly the Australian ship was the farthest away - about five days sailing time. The US ship will take around seven to ten days to travel to the area.

Research is always being undertaken in the Antarctic. Now is the time for ships to access the various sites to replenish stores and equipment and to embark/disembark personnel. Some bases do have airfields but given the weather these are even more limited for use than are ships. Unlike the Arctic, which consists of ice, Antarctica is a continent. It's a big one too. If you think that Australia, the USofA and Canada are big then Antarctica dwarfs them. It's about 14,000,000 square kilometres in area. I have no idea as to the areas of the various 'ice shelves' which attach themselves to the mainland but I suspect that they are quite significant.

Sorry. I didn't intend this to some sort of geography lesson.

Thanks Dujon for putting me right. I suppose this climate change is the main reason behind such expeditions but the best thing to do would surely be to crack on with "trying to save the planet" rather than exploring as to how serious climate change is at the moment and what it means for the future.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

You see this is the thing,

GLOBAL WARMING

is now

CLIMATE CHANGE

Does this mean Ski's or sun tan cream and Ice cold beer for Blackpool?
Was rather hoping for the Costa Del Lancs!

See, here's the thing: global temperatures are rising. That's climate, not weather. Because the climate is not fully understood, changes on a global scale do not go up in as temperatures on a neat straight line increase, instead weird and fearful things like Florida freezing, Australia drowning, Indonesia burning, snow in Jordan, and drought in the Antarctic occur all within the same week. It's only simplistic tits like you that think that's something of a joke.