Politics, The Election May 2015

[bwfcdan94]

Don't know if anyone has seen this, but well worth taking the survey and seeing 'who you should vote for'.

http://voteforpolicies.org.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm apparently going to vote UKIP even though the are possibly the last party I would vote for.

[Worthy4England]

Read this it explains it easy for you.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/d ... side-story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And on voters
Twenty years ago, the world had about 1.1 billion Muslims. Twenty years from now, it will have about twice as many - and they'll represent more than a quarter of all people on earth, according to a new [Pew] study released [January 27, 2011] Thursday.
That's a rise from less than 20 percent in 1990.
From 1990 to 2000, the Muslim population grew at an average annual rate of 2.3%.
The Muslim share of the global population will rise primarily because of their relatively high birth rate, the large number of Muslims of childbearing age, conversion will play relatively little part in the increase, the report anticipates. It says little data is available on conversion, but what little there is suggests Islam loses as many adherents via conversion as it gains.

Who would 20 years ago have envisaged the immigration to the UK we have had or the fact places like tower hamlets are almost a foreign country?
True as things stand now you'd need a lot of voters but that is changing, the young are too feckin' idle to vote and the old dying off, some people and I include myself here are not prepared to sell out large parts of what we believe to vote for pc political parties frightened of upsetting anyone and delivering nothing as a result, who is to say that in time 4-6 million will get you into government?
If hand on heart you thought the UK would be what it is now, your cleverer than I give you credit for.

I don't need it explaining to me, thanks, but read it anyway. None of what the Guardian said is at odds with what I said. Your original contention, based on a different Guardian report was that Sharia Law would be in the UK in 10/15 years. I called that bollocks and still do.

The "new astounding evidence" you've presented in this research from Pew speculates that the muslim population of the UK will increase from 2.8m in 2010 (that's higher than the 2011 census but no matter) to 5.5m in 2030. At the minute we have a population of 62.3m (2010) the ONS expect the UK population to be 71.4m in 2030 so putting the two together there will be an additional 2.8m muslims and an additional 6.3m NON-MUSLIMS...three fecking times as many.

There may well be a point in time that 4-6m votes gets you into government. I doubt it, but there may be. The lowest turnout on record I think is about 60% - The top two parties polled 18m votes between them. It took 10m to win the election. You are making a wild assed assumption that all 5.5m muslims in 2030 vote for a party other than Labour/Con who support Sharia Law. And that there's an even spread of the vote across the constituencies and that all the Con/Lab/Lib Dem 25m votes between them fail, and that, in the face of a leading front line party supporting Sharia Law, the rest of the electorate determines it's going to stay in bed.

As to the rest of the world, the muslim population may well rise in line with the projections from Pew - what exactly are you suggesting we should do about that?

You are talking bollocks and are barking.

I am clearly cleverer than you give me credit for, as displayed time and again by your posts and my responses.

[Prufrock]

[Hoboh]

Read this it explains it easy for you.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/d ... side-story" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And on voters
Twenty years ago, the world had about 1.1 billion Muslims. Twenty years from now, it will have about twice as many - and they'll represent more than a quarter of all people on earth, according to a new [Pew] study released [January 27, 2011] Thursday.
That's a rise from less than 20 percent in 1990.
From 1990 to 2000, the Muslim population grew at an average annual rate of 2.3%.
The Muslim share of the global population will rise primarily because of their relatively high birth rate, the large number of Muslims of childbearing age, conversion will play relatively little part in the increase, the report anticipates. It says little data is available on conversion, but what little there is suggests Islam loses as many adherents via conversion as it gains.

Who would 20 years ago have envisaged the immigration to the UK we have had or the fact places like tower hamlets are almost a foreign country?
True as things stand now you'd need a lot of voters but that is changing, the young are too feckin' idle to vote and the old dying off, some people and I include myself here are not prepared to sell out large parts of what we believe to vote for pc political parties frightened of upsetting anyone and delivering nothing as a result, who is to say that in time 4-6 million will get you into government?
If hand on heart you thought the UK would be what it is now, your cleverer than I give you credit for.

I don't need it explaining to me, thanks, but read it anyway. None of what the Guardian said is at odds with what I said. Your original contention, based on a different Guardian report was that Sharia Law would be in the UK in 10/15 years. I called that bollocks and still do.

The "new astounding evidence" you've presented in this research from Pew speculates that the muslim population of the UK will increase from 2.8m in 2010 (that's higher than the 2011 census but no matter) to 5.5m in 2030. At the minute we have a population of 62.3m (2010) the ONS expect the UK population to be 71.4m in 2030 so putting the two together there will be an additional 2.8m muslims and an additional 6.3m NON-MUSLIMS...three fecking times as many.

There may well be a point in time that 4-6m votes gets you into government. I doubt it, but there may be. The lowest turnout on record I think is about 60% - The top two parties polled 18m votes between them. It took 10m to win the election. You are making a wild assed assumption that all 5.5m muslims in 2030 vote for a party other than Labour/Con who support Sharia Law. And that there's an even spread of the vote across the constituencies and that all the Con/Lab/Lib Dem 25m votes between them fail, and that, in the face of a leading front line party supporting Sharia Law, the rest of the electorate determines it's going to stay in bed.

As to the rest of the world, the muslim population may well rise in line with the projections from Pew - what exactly are you suggesting we should do about that?

You are talking bollocks and are barking.

I am clearly cleverer than you give me credit for, as displayed time and again by your posts and my responses.

Sorry Worthy but don't go calling other people while wearing your tin foil hat in relation ISIS or are you another believing its all a CIA plot to steal oil that went wrong?

"new astounding evidence"

Where did I claim this?

The last three elections have been at least 5-6% below previous turnouts which tends to suggest a downwards spiral overall, lowest turnout was 2001 59.4%.
Blair won that with 40.7% (10,724,895) of the vote
The % of the vote to form the government has fallen at the last two elections 2005 35.2%, 2010 36.1% Bearing in mind the norm from past elections has been a % over 40% that figure is now falling.
This seems to back up my argument that voter numbers overall are falling.

You clearly have a lot of time on your hands to gather your version of statistical bollocks I'll grant you that.
You think the world isn't going to change, then fine you want facts, look at tower Hamlets, yeah just one place or in your analytical bonce are you devoid of starting points and movement?

Cleverer? not a cat in hells chance most of what you spout is utter accountant cobblers.

Is it buy one get one free with you? Seems one ostrich follows another.

[TANGODANCER]

Boris J has delivered the word on Jihadists..

"If you look at all the psychological profiling about bombers, they typically will look at porn. They are literally w*****s..."

http://www.itv.com/news/2015-01-30/bori ... ith-girls/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Worthy4England]

You've moved from this - which was by your interpretation Sharia Law coming to the UK "in 10/15 years"

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... n-overseas

Sharia law anyone?

to me being an ostrich in relation to ISIS - at no point did your original post discuss ISIS - it was about Sharia Law in the UK.

I think ISIS are a significant problem. (Look there's your ostrich gone, I'll leave you the tin foil hat )

As for the amount of time I have, it generally takes under 5 minutes, to read your post, determine whether it's #ho-perbole - I've refined the process and generally start with "Yes it is" - and find readily available information to show it to be so.

As to your point about the ever growing muslim population which seemed to be really important to you (sometime after the really important #shocknawe Sharia Law is coming to Eastbourne post). I get it. The muslim population is growing faster than the non-muslim population (by one study - Pew). Let's conjecture that's a correct study - what do you think we should do about that - they're clearly taking over the world, some of them will probably support both Sharia and/or ISIS? Maybe we should hope for a Martian invasion to counter it (there's a good Documentary about Martian Invasion here http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116996/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

Seriously - what do you think we should do about it?

[thebish]

You clearly have a lot of time on your hands to gather your version of statistical bollocks I'll grant you that.
Cleverer? not a cat in hells chance most of what you spout is utter accountant cobblers.
Is it buy one get one free with you? Seems one ostrich follows another.

Sorry Worthy but don't go calling other people while wearing your tin foil hat in relation ISIS or are you another believing its all a CIA plot to steal oil that went wrong?
You think the world isn't going to change, then fine you want facts, look at tower Hamlets, yeah just one place or in your analytical bonce are you devoid of starting points and movement?
Or as I suspect is it the 'oh shit it's outside of our parameters, lets hope it goes away'.
Being smug isn't smart

OR.... you could cut the meaningless bluster and simply address the arguments Worthy has cogently presented about population and likelihood of winning elections.

which of his figures/conclusions/arguments are you actually disputing, and on what grounds?

[Hoboh]

You've moved from this - which was by your interpretation Sharia Law coming to the UK "in 10/15 years"

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... n-overseas

Sharia law anyone?

to me being an ostrich in relation to ISIS - at no point did your original post discuss ISIS - it was about Sharia Law in the UK.

I think ISIS are a significant problem. (Look there's your ostrich gone, I'll leave you the tin foil hat )

As for the amount of time I have, it generally takes under 5 minutes, to read your post, determine whether it's #ho-perbole - I've refined the process and generally start with "Yes it is" - and find readily available information to show it to be so.

As to your point about the ever growing muslim population which seemed to be really important to you (sometime after the really important #shocknawe Sharia Law is coming to Eastbourne post). I get it. The muslim population is growing faster than the non-muslim population (by one study - Pew). Let's conjecture that's a correct study - what do you think we should do about that - they're clearly taking over the world, some of them will probably support both Sharia and/or ISIS? Maybe we should hope for a Martian invasion to counter it (there's a good Documentary about Martian Invasion here http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116996/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

Seriously - what do you think we should do about it?

In truth,
I don't think over the long term there is a lot we can do about it and maybe using the Muslims and sharia law is an extreme way of pointing out that sooner our later the way we look at and engage with overseas events will change.
I know that I'm going to invite flack from certain quarters saying that our British identity is eventually going to be eroded, my problem is the way we are accelerating this with the associated problems it causes via mass immigration and the EU's free movement of people added to immigration from other culturally different places. Controlled and managed the future of integration could be relatively smooth.
There has to be engagement from all communities in this and the ghettoization and fragmentation of the country will not help one jot.
What will happen if areas of the country turn towards, again using Islam as an example, then find that work and resources in these places is in short supply? Will this then fire up these areas and cause internal strife? Some already believe this to be the case today between the Tories, Labour and the SNP for example, what if it starts to get extreme?

[Hoboh]

You clearly have a lot of time on your hands to gather your version of statistical bollocks I'll grant you that.
Cleverer? not a cat in hells chance most of what you spout is utter accountant cobblers.
Is it buy one get one free with you? Seems one ostrich follows another.

Sorry Worthy but don't go calling other people while wearing your tin foil hat in relation ISIS or are you another believing its all a CIA plot to steal oil that went wrong?
You think the world isn't going to change, then fine you want facts, look at tower Hamlets, yeah just one place or in your analytical bonce are you devoid of starting points and movement?
Or as I suspect is it the 'oh shit it's outside of our parameters, lets hope it goes away'.
Being smug isn't smart

OR.... you could cut the meaningless bluster and simply address the arguments Worthy has cogently presented about population and likelihood of winning elections.

which of his figures/conclusions/arguments are you actually disputing, and on what grounds?

Your lapdog's already latched on

[thebish]

You clearly have a lot of time on your hands to gather your version of statistical bollocks I'll grant you that.
Cleverer? not a cat in hells chance most of what you spout is utter accountant cobblers.
Is it buy one get one free with you? Seems one ostrich follows another.

Sorry Worthy but don't go calling other people while wearing your tin foil hat in relation ISIS or are you another believing its all a CIA plot to steal oil that went wrong?
You think the world isn't going to change, then fine you want facts, look at tower Hamlets, yeah just one place or in your analytical bonce are you devoid of starting points and movement?
Or as I suspect is it the 'oh shit it's outside of our parameters, lets hope it goes away'.
Being smug isn't smart

OR.... you could cut the meaningless bluster and simply address the arguments Worthy has cogently presented about population and likelihood of winning elections.

which of his figures/conclusions/arguments are you actually disputing, and on what grounds?

Your lapdog's already latched on

in the light of the discussion had above - do you ACTUALLY still think that in 10-15yrs time we will be operating effectively as a country under shariah law?

[Worthy4England]

In truth,
I don't think over the long term there is a lot we can do about it and maybe using the Muslims and sharia law is an extreme way of pointing out that sooner our later the way we look at and engage with overseas events will change.
I know that I'm going to invite flack from certain quarters saying that our British identity is eventually going to be eroded, my problem is the way we are accelerating this with the associated problems it causes via mass immigration and the EU's free movement of people added to immigration from other culturally different places. Controlled and managed the future of integration could be relatively smooth.
There has to be engagement from all communities in this and the ghettoization and fragmentation of the country will not help one jot.
What will happen if areas of the country turn towards, again using Islam as an example, then find that work and resources in these places is in short supply? Will this then fire up these areas and cause internal strife? Some already believe this to be the case today between the Tories, Labour and the SNP for example, what if it starts to get extreme?

Undoubtedly, the way we look at an engage overseas needs some thought - I think I made that point previously.

Over the course of history the British identity has changed many times - we've been conquered by other countries from time to time, been Pagan, Catholic, Christian etc. All of these events have shaped what we are today. I think in 500 years, the place will be different than today. That's not news. Apart from for people who think that it isn't going to change.

I have mixed feelings about immigration - I think it needs more control than we've had the last few years. I have mixed feelings about multi-culturalism and whether it "works" - the workplaces I attend, it's not really a problem - works pretty well. Outside of a working context, I'm less convinced. In either event the way it will work isn't "this is the way we do it, the way we've always done it and the way you'll do it", that's blindingly obvious., for a start off who would define "this is the way we do it", bearing in mind that you would undoubtedly do the "it" different from me - who's "it" would we be doing?

We've had extreme before - most of my growing up in the 1970's was dominated by the IRA terror campaigns. That was flare-up and strife. We (hopefully) got through it - although I can remember the debates at the time about there being "no solution".

I can't change the muslim population demographics, nor can I alter whether they believe in Sharia Law or ISIS (I could print off some leaflets at home and distribute them on street corners I suppose) - so largely I'm not going to spend time worrying about it unless it looks like it's going to impact my family directly. I'm not persuaded by the imminent electoral threat that you started this off on - I probably won't vote this time out, but if I had someone standing under a banner of Sharia Law in my constituency, then you bet I'd get out of bed (Just as I might if I thought the Greens posed a credible threat or UKIP) - that's not being an ostrich, that's being a realist.

[Hoboh]

In truth,
I don't think over the long term there is a lot we can do about it and maybe using the Muslims and sharia law is an extreme way of pointing out that sooner our later the way we look at and engage with overseas events will change.
I know that I'm going to invite flack from certain quarters saying that our British identity is eventually going to be eroded, my problem is the way we are accelerating this with the associated problems it causes via mass immigration and the EU's free movement of people added to immigration from other culturally different places. Controlled and managed the future of integration could be relatively smooth.
There has to be engagement from all communities in this and the ghettoization and fragmentation of the country will not help one jot.
What will happen if areas of the country turn towards, again using Islam as an example, then find that work and resources in these places is in short supply? Will this then fire up these areas and cause internal strife? Some already believe this to be the case today between the Tories, Labour and the SNP for example, what if it starts to get extreme?

Undoubtedly, the way we look at an engage overseas needs some thought - I think I made that point previously.

Over the course of history the British identity has changed many times - we've been conquered by other countries from time to time, been Pagan, Catholic, Christian etc. All of these events have shaped what we are today. I think in 500 years, the place will be different than today. That's not news. Apart from for people who think that it isn't going to change.

I have mixed feelings about immigration - I think it needs more control than we've had the last few years. I have mixed feelings about multi-culturalism and whether it "works" - the workplaces I attend, it's not really a problem - works pretty well. Outside of a working context, I'm less convinced. In either event the way it will work isn't "this is the way we do it, the way we've always done it and the way you'll do it", that's blindingly obvious., for a start off who would define "this is the way we do it", bearing in mind that you would undoubtedly do the "it" different from me - who's "it" would we be doing?

We've had extreme before - most of my growing up in the 1970's was dominated by the IRA terror campaigns. That was flare-up and strife. We (hopefully) got through it - although I can remember the debates at the time about there being "no solution".

I can't change the muslim population demographics, nor can I alter whether they believe in Sharia Law or ISIS (I could print off some leaflets at home and distribute them on street corners I suppose) - so largely I'm not going to spend time worrying about it unless it looks like it's going to impact my family directly. I'm not persuaded by the imminent electoral threat that you started this off on - I probably won't vote this time out, but if I had someone standing under a banner of Sharia Law in my constituency, then you bet I'd get out of bed (Just as I might if I thought the Greens posed a credible threat or UKIP) - that's not being an ostrich, that's being a realist.

Multi Culti in the workplace appears successful due to company policies of being unable to say nothing for fear of upsetting someone and the resulting loss of your job, these policies are not in place in the main to protect employers sensibilities but stop companies being sued. I know that for a fact I've been personally involved in writing one!
Over centuries change can be slowly excepted but even then there have been periods that involved turmoil, now radical change is happening far too quickly and worse still being moved and fostered by those who supposedly know what's best for us.
These sorts of policies are the bread and butter and bring a meaning of life for the failing churches and liberals.
I too am also struggling to find anyone worth voting for.

[Hoboh]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... abour.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This the same bloke who jumped the M&S Ship when it started to take on water? Must be of Italian decent

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... haven.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

All in it together Dave? Pay taxes, spoken to your wife's boss recently?

http://www.theguardian.com/education/20 ... ion-budget" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Fewer police, reduced armed services, NHS in turmoil, zero hour contracts, low pay, slash benefits to those in the greatest needs, Now p*ss about with the thing you all keep shouting about, Education and the need to produce skilled people!
Fcuk me is there no depths to which these scum won't stoop to line the pockets of their pals whilst selling us out to Europe for their jobs for the boys in retirement?

Wanker!

[Prufrock]

Whenever I read of companies accused of tax-dodging coming back with "we pay £X in pensions and other taxes" I'm reminded of Chris Rock. "Companies want credit for shit they *supposed* to do".

[Hoboh]

Well here's the biggest excuse not to vote Tory sorted!

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... l-election" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Hoboh]

Graffiti outside the EB headquarters during its construction.

[Caro-Kann]

Not sure how much coverage it got in England but the other day's Ashcroft constituency Polls have created a bit of a stooshie up here.
If these poll results were to be born out at the General Election then it is official, hell would have literally frozen over, I mean an SNP MP in Coatbridge, suggesting that as even a remote possibility could have got you committed!

[Bruce Rioja]

Apparently today is national voter registration day.

https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote?utm ... VRD1stpost" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Bijou Bob]

Strange QT tonight. I don't think I've ever seen a Labour shadow minister so emasculated or Gorgeous George so quiet.

[Bijou Bob]

I take that last sentence back!!