Politics, The Election May 2015

[Montreal Wanderer]

Had to verify this from other sources before being sure it wasn't an attempt to break into The Onion style reporting.

, the f*cking berk: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/if- ... ment-on-it" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It could happen to anyone with unfamiliar machinery. I'm sure we've all turned on the windshield wipers when wanting to use the direction indicator in a rented car. Sound like the meeting needed a little livening up anyway.

[Hoboh]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015 ... ort-delays" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And politicians wonder at, and bemoan, the disconnect between the electorate and the establishment.

Here's a clue chaps it's, because you lie, deceive, spin, obfuscate, redact, censor and classify the living crap out of everything. And it's been around for some time.

It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.
Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter'd your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?
Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil'd this sacred place, and turn'd the Lord's temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress'd, are yourselves gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors.
In the name of God, go! Oliver Cromwell (1653)

He may have been a miserable git and did very little to change the social order. But he had you lot bang to rights three and a half centuries ago

Not my words but a post in the guardian, spot on in my opinion over this and many other affairs.

[Prufrock]

Witness the spineless attempts of both Cameron and Miliband to *spin* the issue of whether the Greens should be on the debates or not. Both utterly transparent, both seemingly convinced they're fooling somebody.

[Lord Kangana]

Isn't it simply because they're afraid of The Clegg Effect from last time?

Personally, I think TV debates area US-affectation that we shouldn't pander to. Load of nonsense.

[Prufrock]

Cameron doesn't want to do them full-stop. Mainly because they reckon all Ed has to do is look even close to normal to hugely exceed expectations. He also doesn't want to get drawn on stuff by Farage.

Miliband wants an excuse to call Cameron a scaredy-cat and is also worried that the Greens will do to the Labour vote what the Tories are scared UKIP will do to them.

As it happens, I totally agree with what Cameron has said, the Greens should be there, I just don't for a second think he believes it.

I actually thought they were pretty good last time. The rest of politics is such a festival of obfuscation and wankery that no-one a) knows what's happening or b) cares. The debates had a huge audience where they had to say on telly what they actually thought and stood for. It was refreshing! Dave has a friend, you know, a 40 year-old black man who joined the Navy at 10. Wouldn't have known otherwise.

[Worthy4England]

Cameron doesn't want to do them full-stop. Mainly because they reckon all Ed has to do is look even close to normal to hugely exceed expectations. He also doesn't want to get drawn on stuff by Farage.

Miliband wants an excuse to call Cameron a scaredy-cat and is also worried that the Greens will do to the Labour vote what the Tories are scared UKIP will do to them.

As it happens, I totally agree with what Cameron has said, the Greens should be there, I just don't for a second think he believes it.

I actually thought they were pretty good last time. The rest of politics is such a festival of obfuscation and wankery that no-one a) knows what's happening or b) cares. The debates had a huge audience where they had to say on telly what they actually thought and stood for. It was refreshing! Dave has a friend, you know, a 40 year-old black man who joined the Navy at 10. Wouldn't have known otherwise.

Agree with most of this, but do you really think Milliband is worried that the Greens might do to Labour what UKIP might do to the Tories? I don't see that at all...

The Greens can't damage Labour by more than a fraction of what Milliband can do...(IMHO)...

[Hoboh]

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/ ... l--7256901" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Seems some forget who the opposition is!

[Prufrock]

Cameron doesn't want to do them full-stop. Mainly because they reckon all Ed has to do is look even close to normal to hugely exceed expectations. He also doesn't want to get drawn on stuff by Farage.

Miliband wants an excuse to call Cameron a scaredy-cat and is also worried that the Greens will do to the Labour vote what the Tories are scared UKIP will do to them.

As it happens, I totally agree with what Cameron has said, the Greens should be there, I just don't for a second think he believes it.

I actually thought they were pretty good last time. The rest of politics is such a festival of obfuscation and wankery that no-one a) knows what's happening or b) cares. The debates had a huge audience where they had to say on telly what they actually thought and stood for. It was refreshing! Dave has a friend, you know, a 40 year-old black man who joined the Navy at 10. Wouldn't have known otherwise.

Agree with most of this, but do you really think Milliband is worried that the Greens might do to Labour what UKIP might do to the Tories? I don't see that at all...

The Greens can't damage Labour by more than a fraction of what Milliband can do...(IMHO)...

Not to the extent of winning seats (or many) like UKIP might, but I think there's a potential they'll split enough of the metropolitan vote to risk some of the Labour seats. Greens were polling ahead of the Lib Dems not that long ago. Ahead of UKIP in one poll. Can't see them winning (m)any more seats, but I reckon they'll get a decent share of the vote. More likely to hit Labour and the Lib Dems than the Tories, IMO.

[Worthy4England]

Cameron doesn't want to do them full-stop. Mainly because they reckon all Ed has to do is look even close to normal to hugely exceed expectations. He also doesn't want to get drawn on stuff by Farage.

Miliband wants an excuse to call Cameron a scaredy-cat and is also worried that the Greens will do to the Labour vote what the Tories are scared UKIP will do to them.

As it happens, I totally agree with what Cameron has said, the Greens should be there, I just don't for a second think he believes it.

I actually thought they were pretty good last time. The rest of politics is such a festival of obfuscation and wankery that no-one a) knows what's happening or b) cares. The debates had a huge audience where they had to say on telly what they actually thought and stood for. It was refreshing! Dave has a friend, you know, a 40 year-old black man who joined the Navy at 10. Wouldn't have known otherwise.

Agree with most of this, but do you really think Milliband is worried that the Greens might do to Labour what UKIP might do to the Tories? I don't see that at all...

The Greens can't damage Labour by more than a fraction of what Milliband can do...(IMHO)...

Not to the extent of winning seats (or many) like UKIP might, but I think there's a potential they'll split enough of the metropolitan vote to risk some of the Labour seats. Greens were polling ahead of the Lib Dems not that long ago. Ahead of UKIP in one poll. Can't see them winning (m)any more seats, but I reckon they'll get a decent share of the vote. More likely to hit Labour and the Lib Dems than the Tories, IMO.

They could...like any other party could - they polled about 850 votes per candidate last election - around half the total votes that the BNP got and a quarter of the votes UKIP got.

They were 8,000 votes up on the 2005 election (whereas they increased by 100,000 between 2001 & 2005). I think they could improve - they're certainly polling higher than the did in 2010. But the difficulty they will need to overcome is in 194 marginal seats, they're not in second or third place in any of them. Not convinced they'll be instrumental, and I think (if I look at the seats where Greens polled above their average last time out) that the Tories/Lib Dems probably have more (or at least as many) at risk marginals from the Greens than Labour...Hampstead and Kilburn wouldn't take much to take off Labour, but it could go to either Tory or Lib Dem fairly easily...Bolton West/Southampton Itchen could fairly easily go Tory, but by the time we get to the next five Con targets, Greens didn't field candidates last time out...You have to go to number 11 on the Con targets from Labour (Birmingham Edgebaston) to the next place Greens had a candidate - there the margin was 1274 votes - they'd have to increase from 369 votes last time out to make enough of a dint...

Think they have their work cut out (regardless of what they're polling).

[bobo the clown]

Think they have their work cut out (regardless of what they're polling).

Good.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... itain.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Jesus wept. They're fckg barking. If they did get to hold some balance of power be very scared.

Six months ago, they were on the very edges of British politics. Now, they are within touching distance of dictating terms to the future government.

A surge in support has seen the Green Party overtake the Liberal Democrats in the polls, with support at 11 per cent. Membership is now greater than Ukip's.

And, with hopes of winning three seats in the general election, Natalie Bennett believes her party will take part in a “confidence and supply” arrangement, propping up a fragile minority administration in exchange for key policies.

What might they demand?
The party is often dubbed the “Ukip of the left”. But an examination of the party's core priorities - in a document called Policies for a Sustainable Society, set at the party's annual conference - reveals they are far more radical in their aims than Nigel Farage's outfit.

In the short term, a Green administration would impose a string of new taxes, ramp up public spending to unprecedented levels and decriminalise drugs, brothels and membership of terrorist groups.

In the long term, they want to fundamentally change life as we know it.

ZERO GROWTH ECONOMY
Critics call the party’s adherents “watermelons” – green on the outside, deepest red on the inside.

It’s not quite right.
Karl Marx and his pupils championed economic growth and personal consumption: five year plans, tractor factories and fridges for all. The row, for them, was whether the planned economy was a stronger engine than the free market.

The Greens want something very different.
Caroline Lucas and colleagues regard economic growth as incompatible with protecting the planet and a fulfilling personal life.

While their rivals recognise more trade, more innovation, more competition and more globalisation as an engine for prosperity for everyone on the planet, the Greens argue it is nothing more than a race to the bottom that has made the poor poorer, the rich richer, and pillaged the environment.

The party’s manifesto argues for zero, or even negative growth and falling levels of personal consumption. Britain would be in permanent recession; families would become materially poorer each year. After centuries of growing global connectivity, the Greens want to see greater national self-reliance.

Cottage industries, allotments and co-operatives are good. Banks, supermarkets, multi-national companies and resource extraction are very, very bad.

And while Labour and the Tories compete on job creation, the Greens argue that government policy should make paid work “less necessary”, with people making their living from the home-based “informal economy”.

THE CITIZENS’ INCOME
The flagship policy is an unconditional, non-withdrawable income of £71 a week for everyone living in Britain “as a right of citizenship”, regardless of wealth or whether they are seeking work.

Benefits and the tax-free personal allowance will be abolished, and top-ups given for people with children or disabilities, or to pay rent and mortgages. No-one will see a reduction in benefits, and most will see a substantial increase. Parents will be entitled to two years’ paid leave from work.

The policy will enable people to “choose their own types and patterns of work”, and will allow people to take up “personally satisfying and socially useful work”.

It will cost somewhere between £240-280 billion a year – more than double the current health budget, and ten times the defence budget. Those costs will be off-set by some reduction to the welfare bill, through the replacement of jobseekers’ allowance.

TAX ON PRESENTS
Under Green plans, inheritance tax – “to prevent the accumulation of wealth and power by a privileged class” – will no longer just tax the dead.

Under radical reforms, it will cover gifts made while the giver is still alive – raising the prospect of levies on cars, jewellery or furniture given by parents to their children. There will be exemptions for some large gifts, “such as those received on marriage”.

There will be a threshold for the tax, with receipts calculated over five years – but the party does not set out at what point the levy kicks in. New, higher rates of income tax will be imposed.

GREEN TAXES
VAT will be abolished – and replaced with new levies based on how much environmental damage a product causes. New resource taxes would apply to wood, metal and minerals, and steeper levies imposed on cars.

Crucially, import taxes will be levied on goods brought to Britain reflecting the “ecological impact” of making them – with tariffs reintroduced for trade between Britain and the rest of Europe, ending the free trade bloc.

DRUGS AND BROTHELS
The trade and cultivation of cannabis will be decriminalised under Green policy, along with possession of Class A and B drugs for personal use. Anti-rave laws would be scrapped.

Higher taxes will be brought in on alcohol and tobacco, and a complete alcohol advertising ban imposed.

All elements of the sex industry will be decriminalised, and prostitutes could no longer be discriminated against in child custody cases.

The Greens also want to see “significantly reduced” levels of imprisonment, with jail only used when there is a “substantial risk of a further grave crime” or in cases where offences are so horrific that offenders would be at risk of vigilantes. Prisoners will be given the vote.

ETON MESS
Large schools will be broken up, to have no more than 700 pupils. SATS, early years tests and league tables will be abolished, and “creative” subjects given equal parity to the “academic”.

Independent schools will lose their charitable status and pay corporation tax, while church schools will be stripped of taxpayer funding. Religious instruction will be banned in school hours.

Tuition fees will be abolished - but state research funding for universities will increase to reduce a reliance on “biased” commercial research.

THE BEYONCE TAX
Under cultural reforms, the Greens will explore a “a tax on superstar performances” to support “local cultural enterprises”.

The BBC will be forced to show educational programming during prime time, giving it “equal precedence” to entertainment shows and not “ghettoised at inconvenient times”.

Foreign companies will be stripped of newspapers and television shows if they control too much of the market. The “overall volume” of advertising on TV and newspapers will be controlled and cut, as part of a war on the “materialist and consumption driven culture which is not sustainable”.

The England football, rugby and cricket teams would no longer play against countries where “normal, friendly, respectful or diplomatic relations are not possible.” Football clubs would be owned by co-operatives and not traded on the stock markets.

DEATH OF DUTY FREE
The Greens will aim for all energy to be supplied from renewables, with wind the main source of power by 2030.

Under a new hierarchy for transport, pedestrians and bikes come first – and aeroplanes last.

Buses and trains will be electric by 2030, while taxes and regulations will be imposed to force people to buy smaller, lighter and less-powerful cars.

No more new airports or runways will be built, and existing ones nationalised. All new homes and businesses must by law provide bicycle parking. Helicopter travel would be regulated “more strictly”. The sale of alcohol on planes and airports will be tightly restricted to prevent air-rage, and the air on inbound flights tested for disease.

Advertising of holiday flights will be controlled by law to halt the “promotion of a high-carbon lifestyle”. New taxes would be imposed on carriers to reduce passenger numbers.

THE NHS TAX
Foundation hospitals and internal markets will be abolished, PFI abandoned and prescription charges abolished. A new NHS Tax will be introduced specifically to fund the health service.

Assisted dying will be legalised, and the law on abortion liberalised to allow nurses to carry it out. “Alternative” medicine will be promoted. Private healthcare will be more heavily taxed, with special levies on private hospitals that employ staff who were trained on the NHS.

It will be a criminal offence, with “significant fines”, to stop a woman from breastfeeding in a restaurant or shop, and formula milk will be more tightly regulated.

In order to prevent “overpopulation” burdening the earth, the state will provide free condoms and fund research for new contraceptives.

VEGETARIANISM FOR ALL
A Green party would impose “research, education and economic measures” to drive a “transition from diets dominated by meat”. Factory farming would be abolished, and the sale of fur criminalised and shooting banned. Whips and jumps would be banned from horse racing.

SIGN UP TO AL-QAEDA
International aid should be increased by nearly 50 per cent to one per cent of GDP under Green Policy.

Merely being a member of al-Qaeda, the IRA and other currently proscribed terrorist groups will no longer be a criminal offence under Green plans, and instead a Green Government should seek to “address desperate motivations that lie behind many atrocities labelled ‘terrorist’,” the policy book states.

Terrorism, it adds, “is an extremely loaded term. Sometimes governments justify their own terrorist acts by labelling any groups that resist their monopoly of violence 'terrorist’.”

Britain will leave NATO, end the special relationship with the US, and unilaterally abandon nuclear weapons. A standing army, navy and airforce is “unnecessary”. Bases will be turned into nature reserves and the arms industry “converted” to producing windturbines.

OPEN DOORS
“Richer regions do not have the right to use migration controls to protect their privileges from others in the long term,” the party’s policy book states.

A Green Government will “progressively reduce” border controls, including an amnesty for illegal immigrants after five years.

Access to benefits, the right to vote and tax obligations will apply to everyone living on British soil, regardless of passport. The policy book states: “We will work to create a world of global inter-responsibility in which the concept of a 'British national' is irrelevant and outdated.”

Political parties will be funded by the state, and the electoral system changed. The monarchy will be abolished.

[Worthy4England]

I dunno there's a couple of really good ones in there.

I'm particularly fond of the Tax on Peasants.

And I quite like the approach on booze, cigs and hookers - it'll open up a whole new world of conversations given we now can't afford booze and cigs..."My darling, do you mind if I just nip out with the boys for a couple of hookers for an hour or two?"

The Beyoncé Tax sounds like a sure fire winner too - maybe we could get all the crims that have been let out to go and enforce it.

[Lord Kangana]

Which particular policy, and for what reason, is particularly barking? Say in relation to any of the other potential pitfalls that nay other parties policies might have?

[Athers]

I like the bit about everyone tending a lovely garden of their own veg rather than do work and stuff. We'll all be needing it with that economic plan!

[jaffka]

Well they aren't goimg to get in and a good job as well. I think Pol Pot did something similar.

[Worthy4England]

It's probably easier to talk around which ones aren't barking, in isolation of other countries following a similar line.

Economy - If I'm reading it right, they want me to give up my job and sell (or barter?) cabbages grown on my own personal allotment. I'd be delighted if paid work was less necessary, but I don't see how I'm going to make 2 weeks on the Costa Del Sol from cabbages - the farmer down the road can grow lots more than me.

40% of Board Members to be female. Why - that's not about equality, that's about inequality - If I happen to have a company where the best folks for the job are 80% male (or 80% female), then that should be good enough criteria - what next? Boards must be made up in proportion to the demographics of a part of society? Equal pay audits I would support, but not just for large businesses - I'm fairly sure that the smaller ones are just as likely to be culpable.

I think improving pensions is something we'd all like to do - so how do we do this? Apparently by removing tax relief on pensions contributions - so more tax here for folks to pay (aside from the taxation changes to 50% upper limit, abolition of upper limit for NI contributions).

Reform Inheritance Tax so that it's based on the wealth of the recipient rather than the deceased - this will encourage people to distribute their property more widely (the property that they already own even with the higher levels of taxation) raising 3.1Bn - So clearly distributing your property more widely is still a tax raising policy? So what's the point of distributing it more widely? Other than there must be something more punitive if you don't.

Plenty of additional taxes in the "green" part - fuel duty escalator, zero VAT items removal, increase alcohol and baccy tax. Ahh but we're going to turn pot into a taxable legal thing (can't even afford to have a spliff and laugh at them anymore). What a fcing joyless set of bastards they are.

Local mutual banks - ok I hear all the kerfuffle about Banks in general and am partially sympathetic towards some of it. As we build the local mutual - who the juddering fck will run them? There's no fcking bankers left - we've taxed them out - I guess we'll let the local Vicar (oh fck no no bugger trust them anymore either)....

Support local shops - like the idea, but suspect they're going to be a bit more expensive than Lidl - there's a stealth tax...

Reduce the speed limits on motorways to 55 MPH? They don't get out much, do they?

I imagine it would be like living in North Korea.

[Harry Genshaw]

^ oh aye, you can't move in North Korea for all the cannabis sellers . Be more like living in the Netherlands no?

I remember Norman Tebbit ranting about the Greens last time they looked like bloodying a few noses. Reds under the veg etc

[Worthy4England]

^ oh aye, you can't move in North Korea for all the cannabis sellers . Be more like living in the Netherlands no?

I remember Norman Tebbit ranting about the Greens last time they looked like bloodying a few noses. Reds under the veg etc

Well cannabis is hardly in short supply currently (here) - So it'll be just like now but with added tax.

I don't actually think they'll bloody too many noses - I wouldn't be discussing them, had others not - and I'm fairly left wing (ask Bobo n Bruce ) - So I think there are some elements that are not without merit - supporting the NHS, improving pensions, getting everyone into work etc. all good and noble causes. How to do it is what's at issue

The thought that we'd move in isolation of any other country to the economic model they're proposing is the most barking of the lot. Zero growth means the economy is static, so the only way to fund this, is to change the overall taxation burden and move some money from their current pots into other pots - such as transferring cash out of nuclear to pay for hospitals - as we're not growing. I think it's good to challenge the pot allocations - I think it's good to challenge the taxation burden - I think what they're proposing is barking not what some of their aspirations are - not only barking, unworkable and in isolation would reduce us to the level of a third world nation.

[Lord Kangana]

Health is quite a central issue to a good economy though. The good health of a nation's workforce is directly linked to its productivity und so weiter.

Again, with an ageing population, pension reform is also a key policy.

And anyway, lets all be clear, if we were to hold any party to their manifesto, we'd have a very different society right now. For example UKIP, who are seen as a serious threat, have as a key policy the banning of wind farms and leaving the EU. I find that equally barking and isolationist and "unworkable and in isolation would reduce us to the level of a third world nation". Yet taken semi-seriously?

[Worthy4England]

Health is quite a central issue to a good economy though. The good health of a nation's workforce is directly linked to its productivity und so weiter.

Again, with an ageing population, pension reform is also a key policy.

And anyway, lets all be clear, if we were to hold any party to their manifesto, we'd have a very different society right now. For example UKIP, who are seen as a serious threat, have as a key policy the banning of wind farms and leaving the EU. I find that equally barking and isolationist and "unworkable and in isolation would reduce us to the level of a third world nation". Yet taken semi-seriously?

Not by me. And predominantly for the same reasons.

[jaffka]

What is the total cost in setting up these wind farms compared to what they produce?