Brexit or Britin

[bobo the clown]

I'm still in the Remain camp for purely egoistic reasons, but like it or not, there are legitimate questions around the effect of a further 5 or so countries joining the EU and what that will mean for migration, security and the allocation of resources.

... & 5 counties of increasingly marginal 'European-ness'. Turkey especially. All of whom would be forced to sign up to the Euro.

What the people of Cappadocia have in common with Fins, or Irish, or Estonia such that the ever encroaching European Union continues to make sense I have NO idea. It's lunacy.

Also showing clearly that the European expansionists have no limits to how they see the place.

[Athers]

Depressing stuff from both camps really, but to me it comes down to if you believe some notable economic sacrifice is worth making to bring down immigration.

Personally I don't give a monkeys about immigration so the answer is clear

[Hoboh]

So according to the head remainians, Cameron and Osboure, each family will be £4300 PA worse off, house prices will fall 18% and WW3 will break out if we leave.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ces-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh dear, I suppose a bottle of fizzy wine from a certain French region will go up as well and all the masses would be heart broken.

[Hoboh]

The National Association of Estate Agents (NAEA) and the Association of Residential Letting Agents (Arla) said that Brexit would cut levels of immigration and depress future price rises, leaving the average UK house worth £2,300 less in 2018, and £7,500 less in London.

In forecasts likely to be seized upon by leave campaigners, the group estimates that the population of the UK will be 1 million less than projected by 2026 if Brexit takes place, cutting the demand for buy-to-let properties.

“Lower immigration would mean less people looking for accommodation which would lessen the demand and, potentially, the upward pressures on housing prices, especially in those regions popular with EU migrants,” said the report.

“Lower immigration would also impact rental prices. UK residents born in other EU countries are far more likely to be private renters. Therefore if fewer EU nationals move to the UK in the long term there may be a noticeable impact on demand levels.”

I find this rather revealing about the types who want to 'remain' in the EU.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... referendum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

What about the 2m+ bits residing elsewhere in the EU. Presumably a fair proportion of them will end up having to return due to (I presume) reciprocal health care no longer a thing and other stuff.

[Beefheart]

What about the 2m+ bits residing elsewhere in the EU. Presumably a fair proportion of them will end up having to return due to (I presume) reciprocal health care no longer a thing and other stuff.

Scaremongering! Project Fear! Nothing that people like will change!

[Hoboh]

What about the 2m+ bits residing elsewhere in the EU. Presumably a fair proportion of them will end up having to return due to (I presume) reciprocal health care no longer a thing and other stuff.

There are a fair few ex-pats who fly back to the UK to receive treatment for anything of any consequence, others have insurance because in the likes of Spain the 'reciprocal health care' they receive is fairly basic.

From the .gov site.

Make sure you have adequate travel health insurance and accessible funds to cover the cost of any medical treatment abroad and repatriation. If you are referred to a medical facility for treatment you should contact your insurance/medical assistance company immediately. As a general rule, if you need hospital treatment in Spain you’re more likely to receive appropriate care in a public healthcare facility (although in some tourist areas there may be no public healthcare facility nearby). Your insurance/medical assistance company will be able to provide further details.

If you need emergency medical assistance during your trip, dial 112 and ask for an ambulance.

If you plan to live in Spain, you should look at alternative forms of health cover and visit the British Embassy website for more information.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

What about the 2m+ bits residing elsewhere in the EU. Presumably a fair proportion of them will end up having to return due to (I presume) reciprocal health care no longer a thing and other stuff.

There are a fair few ex-pats who fly back to the UK to receive treatment for anything of any consequence, others have insurance because in the likes of Spain the 'reciprocal health care' they receive is fairly basic.

From the .gov site.

Make sure you have adequate travel health insurance and accessible funds to cover the cost of any medical treatment abroad and repatriation. If you are referred to a medical facility for treatment you should contact your insurance/medical assistance company immediately. As a general rule, if you need hospital treatment in Spain you’re more likely to receive appropriate care in a public healthcare facility (although in some tourist areas there may be no public healthcare facility nearby). Your insurance/medical assistance company will be able to provide further details.

If you need emergency medical assistance during your trip, dial 112 and ask for an ambulance.

If you plan to live in Spain, you should look at alternative forms of health cover and visit the British Embassy website for more information.

They aren't supposed to be able to fly back and get treatment, so something else the government has under their control they aren't doing and some of them blaming the EU for no doubt.

There are a lot of things that could change and make it more difficult for expats to remain abroad, particularly the retired ones. It is as probable that there will be plenty of returnees as well as foreigners leaving the UK, something I've not heard the leave lot even mention.

[Hoboh]

What about the 2m+ bits residing elsewhere in the EU. Presumably a fair proportion of them will end up having to return due to (I presume) reciprocal health care no longer a thing and other stuff.

There are a fair few ex-pats who fly back to the UK to receive treatment for anything of any consequence, others have insurance because in the likes of Spain the 'reciprocal health care' they receive is fairly basic.

From the .gov site.

Make sure you have adequate travel health insurance and accessible funds to cover the cost of any medical treatment abroad and repatriation. If you are referred to a medical facility for treatment you should contact your insurance/medical assistance company immediately. As a general rule, if you need hospital treatment in Spain you’re more likely to receive appropriate care in a public healthcare facility (although in some tourist areas there may be no public healthcare facility nearby). Your insurance/medical assistance company will be able to provide further details.

If you need emergency medical assistance during your trip, dial 112 and ask for an ambulance.

If you plan to live in Spain, you should look at alternative forms of health cover and visit the British Embassy website for more information.

They aren't supposed to be able to fly back and get treatment, so something else the government has under their control they aren't doing and some of them blaming the EU for no doubt.
No, they are not, but having an NI number and the address of a relative just how would the hospital know?
There are a lot of things that could change and make it more difficult for expats to remain abroad, particularly the retired ones. It is as probable that there will be plenty of returnees as well as foreigners leaving the UK, something I've not heard the leave lot even mention.
Why on earth would we want to 'boot out' anyone already here and why would someone like Spain, home of the largest group of ex-pats want to do the same? Stable door springs to mind.
On migration it is the future numbers of concern, one or two member states suffer a down turn in their economies, something being members of the EU and Euro is supposed to prevent and you are open to a flood of, basically, economic migrants.
I suspect the number of Greek youth leaving that country will reach a crisis point in the not to distant future, already there are towns in Romania and Bulgaria populated almost exclusively by the elderly which is going to bring more than it's fair share of problems down the line.
How much will it cost to save a dying country?

[Hoboh]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bruss ... -8dg0pcj96" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

there will be a lot more in store eventually, watch all the veto's get eaten away over the next few years.

"We can leave any time"

Britain does not have a veto. Will you vote on the topic? No, the establishment has a veto.

We'll be so deep in the swamp after a remain vote, surrounded by alligators, leaving will simply never be an option, ask the Greeks.

[Athers]

What about the 2m+ bits residing elsewhere in the EU. Presumably a fair proportion of them will end up having to return due to (I presume) reciprocal health care no longer a thing and other stuff.

No worries if we swap all the young Spaniards who come here to work with our 1m+ retirees on the Costa del Sol

Can't imagine that having a detrimental impact on services at all

sarcasm detector, real useful invention

(i know)

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

What about the 2m+ bits residing elsewhere in the EU. Presumably a fair proportion of them will end up having to return due to (I presume) reciprocal health care no longer a thing and other stuff.

There are a fair few ex-pats who fly back to the UK to receive treatment for anything of any consequence, others have insurance because in the likes of Spain the 'reciprocal health care' they receive is fairly basic.

From the .gov site.

Make sure you have adequate travel health insurance and accessible funds to cover the cost of any medical treatment abroad and repatriation. If you are referred to a medical facility for treatment you should contact your insurance/medical assistance company immediately. As a general rule, if you need hospital treatment in Spain you’re more likely to receive appropriate care in a public healthcare facility (although in some tourist areas there may be no public healthcare facility nearby). Your insurance/medical assistance company will be able to provide further details.

If you need emergency medical assistance during your trip, dial 112 and ask for an ambulance.

If you plan to live in Spain, you should look at alternative forms of health cover and visit the British Embassy website for more information.

They aren't supposed to be able to fly back and get treatment, so something else the government has under their control they aren't doing and some of them blaming the EU for no doubt.
No, they are not, but having an NI number and the address of a relative just how would the hospital know?
There are a lot of things that could change and make it more difficult for expats to remain abroad, particularly the retired ones. It is as probable that there will be plenty of returnees as well as foreigners leaving the UK, something I've not heard the leave lot even mention.
Why on earth would we want to 'boot out' anyone already here and why would someone like Spain, home of the largest group of ex-pats want to do the same? Stable door springs to mind.
On migration it is the future numbers of concern, one or two member states suffer a down turn in their economies, something being members of the EU and Euro is supposed to prevent and you are open to a flood of, basically, economic migrants.
I suspect the number of Greek youth leaving that country will reach a crisis point in the not to distant future, already there are towns in Romania and Bulgaria populated almost exclusively by the elderly which is going to bring more than it's fair share of problems down the line.
How much will it cost to save a dying country?

I'm not saying that anyone will be forced to move, only that the costs of staying may become too much for some. There may be conditions put on them staying (needing to apply for visas, minimum income requirements, increased healthcare costs to name a few). No one knows what will happen, but there are almost as many of us out there as there are of them here.

[Bruce Rioja]

Andy Haldane was on earlier - exactly the sort of person I hoped might come along to make sense of all of this. However, he piped up with - If Britain leaves Europe then inflation will go up and house prices will fall. Now, clearly I'm no expert, but since when has inflation been picky as to which market sectors it does and doesn't effect?

Also, if as we're told. house prices are currently rising at five times the rate of pay awards then surely the price of houses wants pegging back a bit, no?

Sounds to me like he's simply another one spouting bollocks to suit his own agenda.

[Worthy4England]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/bruss ... -8dg0pcj96

there will be a lot more in store eventually, watch all the veto's get eaten away over the next few years.

"We can leave any time"

Britain does not have a veto. Will you vote on the topic? No, the establishment has a veto.

We'll be so deep in the swamp after a remain vote, surrounded by alligators, leaving will simply never be an option, ask the Greeks.

You are as ever mixing 10 things up to arrive at your predetermined point. The veto and our right of exit are not the same thing.

[Beefheart]

Andy Haldane was on earlier - exactly the sort of person I hoped might come along to make sense of all of this. However, he piped up with - If Britain leaves Europe then inflation will go up and house prices will fall. Now, clearly I'm no expert, but since when has inflation been picky as to which market sectors it does and doesn't effect?

Also, if as we're told. house prices are currently rising at five times the rate of pay awards then surely the price of houses wants pegging back a bit, no?

Sounds to me like he's simply another one spouting bollocks to suit his own agenda.

The rates of inflation/deflation across different market sectors, or rather the items that constitute the 'basket of goods', make up the headline inflation rate, rather than the other way around. The housing market behaves so differently that there's an inflation rate that includes it and one that doesn't.

[Bruce Rioja]

The housing market behaves so differently that there's an inflation rate that includes it and one that doesn't.

Either way, the two are inextricably linked, and Haldine is dressing it up to serve his own ends, wouldn't you say?

[Beefheart]

The housing market behaves so differently that there's an inflation rate that includes it and one that doesn't.

Either way, the two are inextricably linked, and Haldine is dressing it up to serve his own ends, wouldn't you say?

Maybe, I've not read what he has said, but it's entirely possible for house prices to fall whilst the cost of others things increases though if you were to look at the overall rate of inflation you could be led to believe that nothing has changed. I don't see how a fall in house prices is a good argument against brexit, mind. A fall in house prices is a good thing, for a prospective first time buyer like me anyway.

[bobo the clown]

The housing market behaves so differently that there's an inflation rate that includes it and one that doesn't.

Blimey, that's a very limited way of describing the background to that variation on inflation rates.

Housing is function of demand & supply and the supply is vastly expanded by an influx of newcomers. The rental market where immigrants settle is completely overcooked. The welfare change which limited people's ability to claim housing allowance (which is still a bloody high figure btw) meant that landlords couldn't just charge what they wanted, knowing it'd be picked up via housing benefit, but the ever growing numbers demanding housing cannot possibly be matched by new building at the moment. Thus buying a property for anyone at the bottom of the housing ladder is all but impossible across a huge swathe of the South. It's far from easy in the North tbh, but I still just about feasible.

It needs slowing down, but that would be bad news for anyone who's managed to bite the bullet and would immediately go into negative equity. But something has to be done.

[Lord Kangana]

I think there's absolutely no doubting, whether leaving or staying is good or bad in the long run, that in the short term market jitteriness over uncertainty and then potential upheaval will lead to detrimental economic conditions for us all. It's just the way international markets operate.

[Hoboh]

I think there's absolutely no doubting, whether leaving or staying is good or bad in the long run, that in the short term market jitteriness over uncertainty and then potential upheaval will lead to detrimental economic conditions for us all. It's just the way international markets operate.

Quite possibly.
No one has mentioned that the EU might take a rather large hit as well, one of it's leading contributors leaving, uncertainty in a few other member states, it might just not be the £ that suffers, any protracted dodgy dealings if we vote leave will only add to that.
It won't only be the UK in the hypothetical sh*t, a fair few other countries have a lot to lose, something Cameron and gorgeous George neglect to say anything about,
A period of uncertainty, yes unmitigated disaster, no, if we leave and if Johnny foreigner gets the hump and starts tit for tat it will prove what some have said all along, they just want our money!