Brexit or Britin

[Worthy4England]

I'm sure all will become clear by the time we hit Article 50 launch and some one can finally tell us the plan.It'll be interesting whether the Tory leadership contest if any of 'em actually articulate some detail...I say Tory rather than an Labour contest, coz the Labour contest isn't actually going to enact any of it).

I'm not sure that everything will smoothly pass through HoC either. It's only a fairly slim majority. (I'm not talking the major bit "Leave the EU", more the detail...

[Montreal Wanderer]

Oh my oh my, yet another condescending twit who thinks he is in possession of a superior intellect because people hold a different opinion from him.
Good protest in London, I see Geldof has found yet another way to be a complete prick!
No quarrel with those committing criminal acts against others because of their race being locked up btw.

So do you condone the vandalism of property belonging to people simply because they're from a different country then?

Absolutely not!

This could have been phrased better I suspect. I assume you meant; "I have no quarrel with locking up those committing criminal acts against others because of their race btw"

[Hoboh]

It's been a very disturbing trend if this whole campaign that "if you don't agree with me you're an idiot/you didn't understand the implications/you're racist/you're selfish". Add that to "you're old, so shouldn't have been allowed to vote".

There will have been sheep-voters on both sides.

The saddest thing is that there was no clear gap between the sides. It was a referendum intended to put the issue firmly to bed once & for all. It's not done that.

For every uncertain "Leave" there were "Remain" votes by people who don't like the EU but we're fearful of what the outcome would be. Sort of In-lite. We were constantly told that the inertia vote would swing the majority to remain (Pru ??).

A major gripe I have with any referendum is that it's a bit one-way. I have the same view with the Scotchish. Vote to stay and you'll get asked again ... & again ... & again. Vote to leave and no more chances.

However, the sight (& sound) of the arrogant feckers protesting about this makes me bilious. Them telling me I didn't understand and, worse still, I'm racist for disagreeing with them. .. well they can fck right off. People voted. A result happened. Now get on with it.


Oh, & seeing the Islington mentality given a kicking is worth all the pain.

The remainers have been and were called lots of names too. Over a long period of time. Snowflakes seems to be quite popular with young Hoboh at the minute. We were also told, there was lots we didn't understand too.

I understand the argument that the thing we were in now called the EU was different in shape to the thing we voted on in the 1970's. It morphed along with the moaning about it for many years. The leave we voted for on Thursday changed too. On Friday

Which PM candidate is promising £350m a week to the NHS?
Which one is promising free trade without any free movement?
Which one is promising immigration will reduce to less than 100k?

There's plenty of other things people voted in favour of, that seem to have disappeared...

You could say, it seems to have changed out of all recognition to the thing that was voted upon. Just didn't take 30 years to do it.

Look, I'll tell you what I just cannot fathom about the youth, to them it seems almost as if the EU is like a giant social network.
The youth mainly despise austerity, think rightly or wrongly they are hard done by,(in some respects they are but it is not just them), they think the road to Brussels is paved with gold.
Tell that to the youth in Greece, Spain, Portugal and others, those living in countries where the EU has imposed stringent financial conditions upon their government and some very important players high up want to move the goal posts even further, to control more aspects of their economy's. Once in this position they can moan and groan all they like, nothing would ever change, they wouldn't be able to vote against it.
How many of our skilled trained youth are flocking to Romania, Bulgaria, etc.? not so many, have they not realised there are only so many posts in certain countries to be filled? The job market with free movement means more competition to them, people from places with a lower standard of living and wages won't expect the salaries they dream of, which gives them a vital edge.
There are many good things about European co-operation but too much crap as well, the Junckers and the like are the real enemy to democracy and the sooner the youth wake up to this, the better, all that nonsense about being inside to drive reform was proved by Cameron's so called negotiations to be pie in the sky, real reform started 23rd June 2016 when the wake up call arrived in Berlin.

[Hoboh]

Oh my oh my, yet another condescending twit who thinks he is in possession of a superior intellect because people hold a different opinion from him.
Good protest in London, I see Geldof has found yet another way to be a complete prick!
No quarrel with those committing criminal acts against others because of their race being locked up btw.

So do you condone the vandalism of property belonging to people simply because they're from a different country then?

Absolutely not!

This could have been phrased better I suspect. I assume you meant; "I have no quarrel with locking up those committing criminal acts against others because of their race btw"

Monty, I'd shoot the buggers.
Unlike these morons I have no problem with those here and working now, I might make a small exception for the Roma/gypsy types but we need to slow down future migration and sort out the 'free movement', you just cannot have potentially 500 million people running around Europe chasing jobs, that is a potential for catastrophe.

[Lord Kangana]

It's been a very disturbing trend if this whole campaign that "if you don't agree with me you're an idiot/you didn't understand the implications/you're racist/you're selfish". Add that to "you're old, so shouldn't have been allowed to vote".

There will have been sheep-voters on both sides.

The saddest thing is that there was no clear gap between the sides. It was a referendum intended to put the issue firmly to bed once & for all. It's not done that.

For every uncertain "Leave" there were "Remain" votes by people who don't like the EU but we're fearful of what the outcome would be. Sort of In-lite. We were constantly told that the inertia vote would swing the majority to remain (Pru ??).

A major gripe I have with any referendum is that it's a bit one-way. I have the same view with the Scotchish. Vote to stay and you'll get asked again ... & again ... & again. Vote to leave and no more chances.

However, the sight (& sound) of the arrogant feckers protesting about this makes me bilious. Them telling me I didn't understand and, worse still, I'm racist for disagreeing with them. .. well they can fck right off. People voted. A result happened. Now get on with it.


Oh, & seeing the Islington mentality given a kicking is worth all the pain.

The remainers have been and were called lots of names too. Over a long period of time. Snowflakes seems to be quite popular with young Hoboh at the minute. We were also told, there was lots we didn't understand too.

I understand the argument that the thing we were in now called the EU was different in shape to the thing we voted on in the 1970's. It morphed along with the moaning about it for many years. The leave we voted for on Thursday changed too. On Friday

Which PM candidate is promising £350m a week to the NHS?
Which one is promising free trade without any free movement?
Which one is promising immigration will reduce to less than 100k?

There's plenty of other things people voted in favour of, that seem to have disappeared...

You could say, it seems to have changed out of all recognition to the thing that was voted upon. Just didn't take 30 years to do it.

Look, I'll tell you what I just cannot fathom about the youth, to them it seems almost as if the EU is like a giant social network.
The youth mainly despise austerity, think rightly or wrongly they are hard done by,(in some respects they are but it is not just them), they think the road to Brussels is paved with gold.
Tell that to the youth in Greece, Spain, Portugal and others, those living in countries where the EU has imposed stringent financial conditions upon their government and some very important players high up want to move the goal posts even further, to control more aspects of their economy's. Once in this position they can moan and groan all they like, nothing would ever change, they wouldn't be able to vote against it.
How many of our skilled trained youth are flocking to Romania, Bulgaria, etc.? not so many, have they not realised there are only so many posts in certain countries to be filled? The job market with free movement means more competition to them, people from places with a lower standard of living and wages won't expect the salaries they dream of, which gives them a vital edge.
There are many good things about European co-operation but too much crap as well, the Junckers and the like are the real enemy to democracy and the sooner the youth wake up to this, the better, all that nonsense about being inside to drive reform was proved by Cameron's so called negotiations to be pie in the sky, real reform started 23rd June 2016 when the wake up call arrived in Berlin.

Theres 2 things to pick upnon here.

Firstly, it's not the 6th June 1944 in perpetuity for ever more. The language used about our fellow human beings across the channel in this country is despicable at times and exposes the real views of too many Commando comic readers. Its history, and a united Europe, thankfully, helped it to be so.

Secondly, the UN has just admonished the UK ( not, repeat not, the EU) government for its austerity measures and the harm it is doing. For too long I've heard the EU blamed on here and elsewhere for things well outside it's remit. Those same politicians who have used it as an easy excuse for too long, and who have had an easy audience lap up every word, are hopefully now going to be exposed for the charlatans they are. When I think of the things we could lose (specifics, and I'd be prepared to list them, not some vague notion of flag waving sovereignty) I can't help but think that leavers have no idea what it is they voted for other than the past, which as you well know is like wishing for your childhood back - easy but unobtainable nodtalgia.

[clapton is god]

What he "started off with" is neither hither nor yon. It's what he ended up with. Why's he so 'unelectable'? You knew exactly what you were getting. This is my question - why's he now being rounded on?

Chilcot is due out and the Blairites want JC out of the way pronto.

Rumbled!

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/1459 ... ?ref=fbshr" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Prufrock]

Aha even better! Alex Salmond says so!

You're killing me man. It's not because he's bobbins. Oh no.

There's only one part of the Labour party obsessed with Chilcott, and it's not the "bitter BLiar-ites who should fcuk off and join the Tories".

[BWFC_Insane]

Look, I'll tell you what I just cannot fathom about the youth, to them it seems almost as if the EU is like a giant social network.
The youth mainly despise austerity, think rightly or wrongly they are hard done by,(in some respects they are but it is not just them), they think the road to Brussels is paved with gold.
Tell that to the youth in Greece, Spain, Portugal and others, those living in countries where the EU has imposed stringent financial conditions upon their government and some very important players high up want to move the goal posts even further, to control more aspects of their economy's. Once in this position they can moan and groan all they like, nothing would ever change, they wouldn't be able to vote against it.
How many of our skilled trained youth are flocking to Romania, Bulgaria, etc.? not so many, have they not realised there are only so many posts in certain countries to be filled? The job market with free movement means more competition to them, people from places with a lower standard of living and wages won't expect the salaries they dream of, which gives them a vital edge.
There are many good things about European co-operation but too much crap as well, the Junckers and the like are the real enemy to democracy and the sooner the youth wake up to this, the better, all that nonsense about being inside to drive reform was proved by Cameron's so called negotiations to be pie in the sky, real reform started 23rd June 2016 when the wake up call arrived in Berlin.

Perhaps young people, see the ability to freely study and work and trade across Europe as a huge opportunity rather than a huge threat? Perhaps they also see that in today's world restricting freedom of movement for workers isn't the answer to drive up wages. That is the biggest fallacy around.

They also don't have a reference point to "before the EU" to dwell upon.

I think there are different perspectives and both old and young would be better trying to see those perspectives from each other's point of view rather than castigating their views in a wide and pretty useless mannner.

[Worthy4England]

It's been a very disturbing trend if this whole campaign that "if you don't agree with me you're an idiot/you didn't understand the implications/you're racist/you're selfish". Add that to "you're old, so shouldn't have been allowed to vote".

There will have been sheep-voters on both sides.

The saddest thing is that there was no clear gap between the sides. It was a referendum intended to put the issue firmly to bed once & for all. It's not done that.

For every uncertain "Leave" there were "Remain" votes by people who don't like the EU but we're fearful of what the outcome would be. Sort of In-lite. We were constantly told that the inertia vote would swing the majority to remain (Pru ??).

A major gripe I have with any referendum is that it's a bit one-way. I have the same view with the Scotchish. Vote to stay and you'll get asked again ... & again ... & again. Vote to leave and no more chances.

However, the sight (& sound) of the arrogant feckers protesting about this makes me bilious. Them telling me I didn't understand and, worse still, I'm racist for disagreeing with them. .. well they can fck right off. People voted. A result happened. Now get on with it.


Oh, & seeing the Islington mentality given a kicking is worth all the pain.

The remainers have been and were called lots of names too. Over a long period of time. Snowflakes seems to be quite popular with young Hoboh at the minute. We were also told, there was lots we didn't understand too.

I understand the argument that the thing we were in now called the EU was different in shape to the thing we voted on in the 1970's. It morphed along with the moaning about it for many years. The leave we voted for on Thursday changed too. On Friday

Which PM candidate is promising £350m a week to the NHS?
Which one is promising free trade without any free movement?
Which one is promising immigration will reduce to less than 100k?

There's plenty of other things people voted in favour of, that seem to have disappeared...

You could say, it seems to have changed out of all recognition to the thing that was voted upon. Just didn't take 30 years to do it.

Look, I'll tell you what I just cannot fathom about the youth, to them it seems almost as if the EU is like a giant social network.
The youth mainly despise austerity, think rightly or wrongly they are hard done by,(in some respects they are but it is not just them), they think the road to Brussels is paved with gold.
Tell that to the youth in Greece, Spain, Portugal and others, those living in countries where the EU has imposed stringent financial conditions upon their government and some very important players high up want to move the goal posts even further, to control more aspects of their economy's. Once in this position they can moan and groan all they like, nothing would ever change, they wouldn't be able to vote against it.
How many of our skilled trained youth are flocking to Romania, Bulgaria, etc.? not so many, have they not realised there are only so many posts in certain countries to be filled? The job market with free movement means more competition to them, people from places with a lower standard of living and wages won't expect the salaries they dream of, which gives them a vital edge.
There are many good things about European co-operation but too much crap as well, the Junckers and the like are the real enemy to democracy and the sooner the youth wake up to this, the better, all that nonsense about being inside to drive reform was proved by Cameron's so called negotiations to be pie in the sky, real reform started 23rd June 2016 when the wake up call arrived in Berlin.

What a wonderful post.

I'm delighted you've been appointed spokesperson for the youth in Greece, Spain and Portugal - Is that a European position?

You also seem to be suggesting that some of our youth aren't really bright enough to spot that the road to Brussels isn't paved with gold. Wasn't that the very sort of "Oh look, they don't agree with me" attitude that was disappointing you?

Bravo!

[Worthy4England]

Meanwhile the campaign manager of Mr Johnson's leadership bid suggested Michael Gove would be a security risk as prime minister, claiming in the Daily Telegraph he had an "emotional need to gossip, particularly when drink is taken".

In his article Ben Wallace MP said: "When I was a government whip and Michael was the chief whip, the office leaked like a sieve. "Important policy and personnel details made their way to the papers. Michael seems to have an emotional need to gossip, particularly when drink is taken, as it all too often seemed to be." Asked to comment on the claims, a spokesman for Mr Gove said: "We wish Ben Wallace well."

Oh, and did I mention whilst he was on our side, that he's a useless pi$$pot?

Hell hath no fury (see Labour leadership non-contest for further details)...

[boltonboris]

f**cking imbeciles - should be locked up with the keys well and truly thrown away (the eejuts who did the Union Jack/eggs that is, not your mates - for the avoidance of doubt.....)

I'm not really a political animal, but this kind of shit really winds me up. This whole problem and situation has been caused by the scarily large bit of the population of the country who can't even spell their own names and don't know what day of the week it is, let alone what the EU actually is, voting for something they clearly didn't understand, just cos some shitty tabloid with their own agenda told them to.

Its an absolute disgrace and frankly proves that democracy just doesn't work in a society where a large percentage of the population is fighting over the same handful of brain cells.

Next time we have a referendum or a vote, as well as having to confirm your name and address when you go to the ballot box, they should add in a simple IQ test as well to weed out the village idiots (something like asking them to tie their own shoelaces, spell their own name, count up to ten, or god forbid a question about the subject they are actually voting on...).

Sorry - rant over.

So.. anybody with say, learning difficulties, or people who haven't had the privilage of same education as others (often through no fault of their own), aren't allowed to vote on policy that directly impacts upon them, their families and the country they live in?

[boltonboris]

Anybody with those narrow minded views, shouldn't be allowed to vote in my opinion

[BWFC_Insane]

I understand the knee-jerk reaction, I mean for me the decision about EU membership should never have been given directly to the British people at this stage. It was too complex, has too many unknown direct and indirect effects either way to be an issue that imo is suitable for such a divisive and simplistic vote.

But we are where we are. I don't think you should restrict who votes. IMO loads of people vote Tory then continually moan about situations caused by the Tory government. Yet fail to put two and two together...still they deserve a vote as much as anyone else.

Decisions must be representative of anyone within voting age and legality who wants a say. If you're going to do it at all that is.

[Hoboh]

It's been a very disturbing trend if this whole campaign that "if you don't agree with me you're an idiot/you didn't understand the implications/you're racist/you're selfish". Add that to "you're old, so shouldn't have been allowed to vote".

There will have been sheep-voters on both sides.

The saddest thing is that there was no clear gap between the sides. It was a referendum intended to put the issue firmly to bed once & for all. It's not done that.

For every uncertain "Leave" there were "Remain" votes by people who don't like the EU but we're fearful of what the outcome would be. Sort of In-lite. We were constantly told that the inertia vote would swing the majority to remain (Pru ??).

A major gripe I have with any referendum is that it's a bit one-way. I have the same view with the Scotchish. Vote to stay and you'll get asked again ... & again ... & again. Vote to leave and no more chances.

However, the sight (& sound) of the arrogant feckers protesting about this makes me bilious. Them telling me I didn't understand and, worse still, I'm racist for disagreeing with them. .. well they can fck right off. People voted. A result happened. Now get on with it.


Oh, & seeing the Islington mentality given a kicking is worth all the pain.

The remainers have been and were called lots of names too. Over a long period of time. Snowflakes seems to be quite popular with young Hoboh at the minute. We were also told, there was lots we didn't understand too.

I understand the argument that the thing we were in now called the EU was different in shape to the thing we voted on in the 1970's. It morphed along with the moaning about it for many years. The leave we voted for on Thursday changed too. On Friday

Which PM candidate is promising £350m a week to the NHS?
Which one is promising free trade without any free movement?
Which one is promising immigration will reduce to less than 100k?

There's plenty of other things people voted in favour of, that seem to have disappeared...

You could say, it seems to have changed out of all recognition to the thing that was voted upon. Just didn't take 30 years to do it.

Look, I'll tell you what I just cannot fathom about the youth, to them it seems almost as if the EU is like a giant social network.
The youth mainly despise austerity, think rightly or wrongly they are hard done by,(in some respects they are but it is not just them), they think the road to Brussels is paved with gold.
Tell that to the youth in Greece, Spain, Portugal and others, those living in countries where the EU has imposed stringent financial conditions upon their government and some very important players high up want to move the goal posts even further, to control more aspects of their economy's. Once in this position they can moan and groan all they like, nothing would ever change, they wouldn't be able to vote against it.
How many of our skilled trained youth are flocking to Romania, Bulgaria, etc.? not so many, have they not realised there are only so many posts in certain countries to be filled? The job market with free movement means more competition to them, people from places with a lower standard of living and wages won't expect the salaries they dream of, which gives them a vital edge.
There are many good things about European co-operation but too much crap as well, the Junckers and the like are the real enemy to democracy and the sooner the youth wake up to this, the better, all that nonsense about being inside to drive reform was proved by Cameron's so called negotiations to be pie in the sky, real reform started 23rd June 2016 when the wake up call arrived in Berlin.

What a wonderful post.

I'm delighted you've been appointed spokesperson for the youth in Greece, Spain and Portugal - Is that a European position?

You also seem to be suggesting that some of our youth aren't really bright enough to spot that the road to Brussels isn't paved with gold. Wasn't that the very sort of "Oh look, they don't agree with me" attitude that was disappointing you?

Bravo!

They are not very experienced and as the 'Facebook, Twitter campaigns' they so readily join up in, maybe not so bright.
I am not a spokesman for the youth in Greece, Portugal nor Spain merely pointing out these people are hardly having a life of roses in the EU, nor are towns in some former Eastern block countries minus many of their youth and futures, whose going to pay for their decline?
Never feel like you are flogging a 'dead horse' when many of the movers and power brokers in the EU are starting to question things?

[Hoboh]

Look, I'll tell you what I just cannot fathom about the youth, to them it seems almost as if the EU is like a giant social network.
The youth mainly despise austerity, think rightly or wrongly they are hard done by,(in some respects they are but it is not just them), they think the road to Brussels is paved with gold.
Tell that to the youth in Greece, Spain, Portugal and others, those living in countries where the EU has imposed stringent financial conditions upon their government and some very important players high up want to move the goal posts even further, to control more aspects of their economy's. Once in this position they can moan and groan all they like, nothing would ever change, they wouldn't be able to vote against it.
How many of our skilled trained youth are flocking to Romania, Bulgaria, etc.? not so many, have they not realised there are only so many posts in certain countries to be filled? The job market with free movement means more competition to them, people from places with a lower standard of living and wages won't expect the salaries they dream of, which gives them a vital edge.
There are many good things about European co-operation but too much crap as well, the Junckers and the like are the real enemy to democracy and the sooner the youth wake up to this, the better, all that nonsense about being inside to drive reform was proved by Cameron's so called negotiations to be pie in the sky, real reform started 23rd June 2016 when the wake up call arrived in Berlin.

Perhaps young people, see the ability to freely study and work and trade across Europe as a huge opportunity rather than a huge threat? Perhaps they also see that in today's world restricting freedom of movement for workers isn't the answer to drive up wages. That is the biggest fallacy around.

They also don't have a reference point to "before the EU" to dwell upon.

I think there are different perspectives and both old and young would be better trying to see those perspectives from each other's point of view rather than castigating their views in a wide and pretty useless mannner.

That's what you get when history is sanitised, the little still taught in schools anyway or people with 'Facebook views' of the world.

[Hoboh]

It's been a very disturbing trend if this whole campaign that "if you don't agree with me you're an idiot/you didn't understand the implications/you're racist/you're selfish". Add that to "you're old, so shouldn't have been allowed to vote".

There will have been sheep-voters on both sides.

The saddest thing is that there was no clear gap between the sides. It was a referendum intended to put the issue firmly to bed once & for all. It's not done that.

For every uncertain "Leave" there were "Remain" votes by people who don't like the EU but we're fearful of what the outcome would be. Sort of In-lite. We were constantly told that the inertia vote would swing the majority to remain (Pru ??).

A major gripe I have with any referendum is that it's a bit one-way. I have the same view with the Scotchish. Vote to stay and you'll get asked again ... & again ... & again. Vote to leave and no more chances.

However, the sight (& sound) of the arrogant feckers protesting about this makes me bilious. Them telling me I didn't understand and, worse still, I'm racist for disagreeing with them. .. well they can fck right off. People voted. A result happened. Now get on with it.


Oh, & seeing the Islington mentality given a kicking is worth all the pain.

The remainers have been and were called lots of names too. Over a long period of time. Snowflakes seems to be quite popular with young Hoboh at the minute. We were also told, there was lots we didn't understand too.

I understand the argument that the thing we were in now called the EU was different in shape to the thing we voted on in the 1970's. It morphed along with the moaning about it for many years. The leave we voted for on Thursday changed too. On Friday

Which PM candidate is promising £350m a week to the NHS?
Which one is promising free trade without any free movement?
Which one is promising immigration will reduce to less than 100k?

There's plenty of other things people voted in favour of, that seem to have disappeared...

You could say, it seems to have changed out of all recognition to the thing that was voted upon. Just didn't take 30 years to do it.

Look, I'll tell you what I just cannot fathom about the youth, to them it seems almost as if the EU is like a giant social network.
The youth mainly despise austerity, think rightly or wrongly they are hard done by,(in some respects they are but it is not just them), they think the road to Brussels is paved with gold.
Tell that to the youth in Greece, Spain, Portugal and others, those living in countries where the EU has imposed stringent financial conditions upon their government and some very important players high up want to move the goal posts even further, to control more aspects of their economy's. Once in this position they can moan and groan all they like, nothing would ever change, they wouldn't be able to vote against it.
How many of our skilled trained youth are flocking to Romania, Bulgaria, etc.? not so many, have they not realised there are only so many posts in certain countries to be filled? The job market with free movement means more competition to them, people from places with a lower standard of living and wages won't expect the salaries they dream of, which gives them a vital edge.
There are many good things about European co-operation but too much crap as well, the Junckers and the like are the real enemy to democracy and the sooner the youth wake up to this, the better, all that nonsense about being inside to drive reform was proved by Cameron's so called negotiations to be pie in the sky, real reform started 23rd June 2016 when the wake up call arrived in Berlin.

Theres 2 things to pick upnon here.

Firstly, it's not the 6th June 1944 in perpetuity for ever more. The language used about our fellow human beings across the channel in this country is despicable at times and exposes the real views of too many Commando comic readers. Its history, and a united Europe, thankfully, helped it to be so.

Secondly, the UN has just admonished the UK ( not, repeat not, the EU) government for its austerity measures and the harm it is doing. For too long I've heard the EU blamed on here and elsewhere for things well outside it's remit. Those same politicians who have used it as an easy excuse for too long, and who have had an easy audience lap up every word, are hopefully now going to be exposed for the charlatans they are. When I think of the things we could lose (specifics, and I'd be prepared to list them, not some vague notion of flag waving sovereignty) I can't help but think that leavers have no idea what it is they voted for other than the past, which as you well know is like wishing for your childhood back - easy but unobtainable nodtalgia.

Go on list them then, you never thought them to be of much relevance before the referendum, so clearly they must be totally refutable, or bollocks!

[BWFC_Insane]

Look, I'll tell you what I just cannot fathom about the youth, to them it seems almost as if the EU is like a giant social network.
The youth mainly despise austerity, think rightly or wrongly they are hard done by,(in some respects they are but it is not just them), they think the road to Brussels is paved with gold.
Tell that to the youth in Greece, Spain, Portugal and others, those living in countries where the EU has imposed stringent financial conditions upon their government and some very important players high up want to move the goal posts even further, to control more aspects of their economy's. Once in this position they can moan and groan all they like, nothing would ever change, they wouldn't be able to vote against it.
How many of our skilled trained youth are flocking to Romania, Bulgaria, etc.? not so many, have they not realised there are only so many posts in certain countries to be filled? The job market with free movement means more competition to them, people from places with a lower standard of living and wages won't expect the salaries they dream of, which gives them a vital edge.
There are many good things about European co-operation but too much crap as well, the Junckers and the like are the real enemy to democracy and the sooner the youth wake up to this, the better, all that nonsense about being inside to drive reform was proved by Cameron's so called negotiations to be pie in the sky, real reform started 23rd June 2016 when the wake up call arrived in Berlin.

Perhaps young people, see the ability to freely study and work and trade across Europe as a huge opportunity rather than a huge threat? Perhaps they also see that in today's world restricting freedom of movement for workers isn't the answer to drive up wages. That is the biggest fallacy around.

They also don't have a reference point to "before the EU" to dwell upon.

I think there are different perspectives and both old and young would be better trying to see those perspectives from each other's point of view rather than castigating their views in a wide and pretty useless mannner.

That's what you get when history is sanitised, the little still taught in schools anyway or people with 'Facebook views' of the world.

Do you not see that what you are doing is exactly the same, but in reverse, as those blaming "old racists" for the vote?

You can't just dismiss their views as irrelevant or based on poor education. They are as aware of the issue as you are, and perhaps they just have different reference points and different value sets. Rather than it being an indictment of the facebook generation. If you keep banging that drum, it is entirely the same as that generation calling your lot "old, intolerant racist scum".

[Hoboh]

Look, I'll tell you what I just cannot fathom about the youth, to them it seems almost as if the EU is like a giant social network.
The youth mainly despise austerity, think rightly or wrongly they are hard done by,(in some respects they are but it is not just them), they think the road to Brussels is paved with gold.
Tell that to the youth in Greece, Spain, Portugal and others, those living in countries where the EU has imposed stringent financial conditions upon their government and some very important players high up want to move the goal posts even further, to control more aspects of their economy's. Once in this position they can moan and groan all they like, nothing would ever change, they wouldn't be able to vote against it.
How many of our skilled trained youth are flocking to Romania, Bulgaria, etc.? not so many, have they not realised there are only so many posts in certain countries to be filled? The job market with free movement means more competition to them, people from places with a lower standard of living and wages won't expect the salaries they dream of, which gives them a vital edge.
There are many good things about European co-operation but too much crap as well, the Junckers and the like are the real enemy to democracy and the sooner the youth wake up to this, the better, all that nonsense about being inside to drive reform was proved by Cameron's so called negotiations to be pie in the sky, real reform started 23rd June 2016 when the wake up call arrived in Berlin.

Perhaps young people, see the ability to freely study and work and trade across Europe as a huge opportunity rather than a huge threat? Perhaps they also see that in today's world restricting freedom of movement for workers isn't the answer to drive up wages. That is the biggest fallacy around.

They also don't have a reference point to "before the EU" to dwell upon.

I think there are different perspectives and both old and young would be better trying to see those perspectives from each other's point of view rather than castigating their views in a wide and pretty useless mannner.

That's what you get when history is sanitised, the little still taught in schools anyway or people with 'Facebook views' of the world.

Do you not see that what you are doing is exactly the same, but in reverse, as those blaming "old racists" for the vote?

You can't just dismiss their views as irrelevant or based on poor education. They are as aware of the issue as you are, and perhaps they just have different reference points and different value sets. Rather than it being an indictment of the facebook generation. If you keep banging that drum, it is entirely the same as that generation calling your lot "old, intolerant racist scum".

I'm not blaming them, except for the whinging, whining, view of losing a referendum they had the chance to influence, more so when a 22 year old dickhead moans about his future being sold off then admitting he didn't even fcuking vote, he looked put out when I laughed at him.
I worry about you sometimes, you love using the words bigots, racists etc. I get the impression you are one of those responsible for generation snowflakes.

[dave the minion]

So.. anybody with say, learning difficulties, or people who haven't had the privilage of same education as others (often through no fault of their own), aren't allowed to vote on policy that directly impacts upon them, their families and the country they live in?

Thats not what I'm saying. The point I am trying to make is that for a person - any person, regardless of background, status, state of mind etc etc etc - to be able to cast a counting vote in a matter of national interest, of which the result will have potentially significant impacts on the country as a while or a large proportion of it, should as a minimum have to actually understand what the vote is about. Otherwise they might as well just be asked to put their names into a pot and randomly draw them out on one side or the other.

With the recent referendum, surely a vote from someone - whether it be remain or leave - who doesn't even know what the letters EU stand for, shouldn't count for as much in a vote to say whether we remain or leave the EU, as someone else's vote which was made on the back of consideration of all the facts and arguments for/against?

Clearly what I am suggesting would be impossible to implement and police, but this just goes to prove what a mockery the whole thing is......

[Hoboh]

So I see Farage, like Boris, has scuttled away now that the damage is done. Fecking cockroaches. This is like going out to a very expensive restaurant, and when the bill arrives you're the last person at the table. Boris took a phonecall half an hour ago, Farage is half out of the door, and Gove is off arguing with some colleagues that he recognises at another table.

The 'damage' and question about 'no plan' should be laid firmly at the feet of Cameron who never saw fit to look into what would happen if he lost the referendum he was never going to lose.