Brexit or Britin

[Beefheart]

What's the point? If people don't want to vote, then why do we want to count it? They're just going to tick anything/ pick someone ridiculous on purpose.

I'm not fussed about that bit particularly - I'm more fussed about applying completely different rules for what "democratic" looks like to the TU's, when they don't apply to the Government...

Or what's democratic when highlighting the EU's democratic deficit, whilst ignoring the undemocratic elements of their own national government, and in fact, opposing any attempts to reform it.

[Worthy4England]

What's the point? If people don't want to vote, then why do we want to count it? They're just going to tick anything/ pick someone ridiculous on purpose.

I'm not fussed about that bit particularly - I'm more fussed about applying completely different rules for what "democratic" looks like to the TU's, when they don't apply to the Government...

Or what's democratic when highlighting the EU's democratic deficit, whilst ignoring the undemocratic elements of their own national government, and in fact, opposing any attempts to reform it.

That too - although given the recent nature of the referendum on AV, think we're snookered there.

[thebish]

aye.. we democratically voted to be less democratic - though - poor turnout in terms of what the TUs are expected to muster!

[Prufrock]

I think a fairer comparison is with the turnout for votes in the house of commons. Plenty if those don't meet the criteria and the voting it's what they get paid for.

I also like that this got Mir traction around the time the doctors' strike was first mooted. They then had a turnout of 80 odd % with 90 odd % voting in favour.

[Lord Kangana]

Boris c*nting Johnson? Iaiaian Duncan-Smith? Michael 'high overlord of gobshittery' Gove? Nigel f*cking Farage? Nigel Farage for jesus-weeping-christ. Farage! WTF doesnt even cover it.

What kind of social misfit would look upon that collection of miscreants and say "yup, I trust them to run their own bath"? Who?

I can't believe the world is so overloaded with idiots that we're seriously contemplating that balloon Trump as a US President and this shower actually has influence. Who was sleeping on their watch? How did we manage to regress so far?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Boris c*nting Johnson? Iaiaian Duncan-Smith? Michael 'high overlord of gobshittery' Gove? Nigel f*cking Farage? Nigel Farage for jesus-weeping-christ. Farage! WTF doesnt even cover it.

What kind of social misfit would look upon that collection of miscreants and say "yup, I trust them to run their own bath"? Who?

I can't believe the world is so overloaded with idiots that we're seriously contemplating that balloon Trump as a US President and this shower actually has influence. Who was sleeping on their watch? How did we manage to regress so far?

Just because idiots espouse a cause doesn't mean the cause is idiotic.
It's at heart a simple yes/no choice. We're not voting in a government one of which might be composed of Johnson, Farage, Gove, and Duncan-Smith (oh and you forgot Galloway).

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Boris c*nting Johnson? Iaiaian Duncan-Smith? Michael 'high overlord of gobshittery' Gove? Nigel f*cking Farage? Nigel Farage for jesus-weeping-christ. Farage! WTF doesnt even cover it.

What kind of social misfit would look upon that collection of miscreants and say "yup, I trust them to run their own bath"? Who?

I can't believe the world is so overloaded with idiots that we're seriously contemplating that balloon Trump as a US President and this shower actually has influence. Who was sleeping on their watch? How did we manage to regress so far?

Just because idiots espouse a cause doesn't mean the cause is idiotic.
It's at heart a simple yes/no choice. We're not voting in a government one of which might be composed of Johnson, Farage, Gove, and Duncan-Smith (oh and you forgot Galloway).

Well yes, because the 'great British public' have already voted half of them into government. That's what is worrying me, that these same people are about to vote again in a few months time!

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Boris c*nting Johnson? Iaiaian Duncan-Smith? Michael 'high overlord of gobshittery' Gove? Nigel f*cking Farage? Nigel Farage for jesus-weeping-christ. Farage! WTF doesnt even cover it.

What kind of social misfit would look upon that collection of miscreants and say "yup, I trust them to run their own bath"? Who?

I can't believe the world is so overloaded with idiots that we're seriously contemplating that balloon Trump as a US President and this shower actually has influence. Who was sleeping on their watch? How did we manage to regress so far?

Just because idiots espouse a cause doesn't mean the cause is idiotic.
It's at heart a simple yes/no choice. We're not voting in a government one of which might be composed of Johnson, Farage, Gove, and Duncan-Smith (oh and you forgot Galloway).

Well yes, because the 'great British public' have already voted half of them into government. That's what is worrying me, that these same people are about to vote again in a few months time!

You've got a valid point there AT. Undeniable in fact.

[bobo the clown]

^^^ ah, the great unwashed. Tossers, the lot of them.

[bedwetter2]

What's the point? If people don't want to vote, then why do we want to count it? They're just going to tick anything/ pick someone ridiculous on purpose.

I'm not fussed about that bit particularly - I'm more fussed about applying completely different rules for what "democratic" looks like to the TU's, when they don't apply to the Government...

Or what's democratic when highlighting the EU's democratic deficit, whilst ignoring the undemocratic elements of their own national government, and in fact, opposing any attempts to reform it.

Two wrongs don't make a right....or something.

[bedwetter2]

Boris c*nting Johnson? Iaiaian Duncan-Smith? Michael 'high overlord of gobshittery' Gove? Nigel f*cking Farage? Nigel Farage for jesus-weeping-christ. Farage! WTF doesnt even cover it.

What kind of social misfit would look upon that collection of miscreants and say "yup, I trust them to run their own bath"? Who?

I can't believe the world is so overloaded with idiots that we're seriously contemplating that balloon Trump as a US President and this shower actually has influence. Who was sleeping on their watch? How did we manage to regress so far?

Mmmm. I take you are not a keen supporter of some or all of the persons you mentioned above.

I'm sure, however, that you have realised that the referendum will not be asking you to to endorse such individuals but simply whether in your totally unbiased view there is any merit to to remain in the EU or whether it will be better in a totally biased view to exit the 'stultifying and going to hell in a handcart' bunch of losers who can't balance their budget or get annual accounts signed off for some twenty years.

Not that I am suggesting there is any evidence of corruption in FIFA, the EU or British Governments for the last 60 years.

[thebish]

Boris c*nting Johnson? Iaiaian Duncan-Smith? Michael 'high overlord of gobshittery' Gove? Nigel f*cking Farage? Nigel Farage for jesus-weeping-christ. Farage! WTF doesnt even cover it.

What kind of social misfit would look upon that collection of miscreants and say "yup, I trust them to run their own bath"? Who?

I can't believe the world is so overloaded with idiots that we're seriously contemplating that balloon Trump as a US President and this shower actually has influence. Who was sleeping on their watch? How did we manage to regress so far?

Mmmm. I take you are not a keen supporter of some or all of the persons you mentioned above.

I'm sure, however, that you have realised that the referendum will not be asking you to to endorse such individuals but simply whether in your totally unbiased view there is any merit to to remain in the EU or whether it will be better in a totally biased view to exit the 'stultifying and going to hell in a handcart' bunch of losers who can't balance their budget or get annual accounts signed off for some twenty years.

Not that I am suggesting there is any evidence of corruption in FIFA, the EU or British Governments for the last 60 years.

The EU accounts have been passed by the independent auditors every year since 2007 as accurate, legal, regular and reliable. Furthermore, the EU has no debt or borrowings and the books are always balanced every year. (From 1994 to 2004, the EU budget was subject to cash-based accounting. Improved accruals-based accounting was introduced in 2005. The European Court of Auditors gave qualified approval to accounts until 2006, and unqualified approval - 'clean' opinion - since 2007.)

[bedwetter2]

Boris c*nting Johnson? Iaiaian Duncan-Smith? Michael 'high overlord of gobshittery' Gove? Nigel f*cking Farage? Nigel Farage for jesus-weeping-christ. Farage! WTF doesnt even cover it.

What kind of social misfit would look upon that collection of miscreants and say "yup, I trust them to run their own bath"? Who?

I can't believe the world is so overloaded with idiots that we're seriously contemplating that balloon Trump as a US President and this shower actually has influence. Who was sleeping on their watch? How did we manage to regress so far?

Mmmm. I take you are not a keen supporter of some or all of the persons you mentioned above.

I'm sure, however, that you have realised that the referendum will not be asking you to to endorse such individuals but simply whether in your totally unbiased view there is any merit to to remain in the EU or whether it will be better in a totally biased view to exit the 'stultifying and going to hell in a handcart' bunch of losers who can't balance their budget or get annual accounts signed off for some twenty years.

Not that I am suggesting there is any evidence of corruption in FIFA, the EU or British Governments for the last 60 years.

The EU accounts have been passed by the independent auditors every year since 2007 as accurate, legal, regular and reliable. Furthermore, the EU has no debt or borrowings and the books are always balanced every year. (From 1994 to 2004, the EU budget was subject to cash-based accounting. Improved accruals-based accounting was introduced in 2005. The European Court of Auditors gave qualified approval to accounts until 2006, and unqualified approval - 'clean' opinion - since 2007.)

#

Excellent Bish. Balancing of the books comes about as a result of additional end of year demands to net contributors, after the budgets have been exceeded.

Please name the independent auditors used by the EU and whether they may have close relationships to any EU Treasury employees. Don't bother - I'll tell you that the 'independent' auditors in question are The Court of Auditors based in Luxembourg. They don't seem to do much more auditing in the accepted sense.
And this experienced organisation (in all things EU, I suspect) has signed off the EU accounts with qualifications for the period from 1998 to 2014 stating that the regular 4% errors (of £130bn spend) are material. So not quite the clean bill of health claimed.

[Abdoulaye's Twin]

Excellent Bish. Balancing of the books comes about as a result of additional end of year demands to net contributors, after the budgets have been exceeded.

Please name the independent auditors used by the EU and whether they may have close relationships to any EU Treasury employees. Don't bother - I'll tell you that the 'independent' auditors in question are The Court of Auditors based in Luxembourg. They don't seem to do much more auditing in the accepted sense.
And this experienced organisation (in all things EU, I suspect) has signed off the EU accounts with qualifications for the period from 1998 to 2014 stating that the regular 4% errors (of £130bn spend) are material. So not quite the clean bill of health claimed.

Ahh, those lovely chaps. I've had many a dealing with them and tedious doesn't do them justice. Humourless, grey suited and lacking any ability to engage a brain is my experience.

[bedwetter2]

Excellent Bish. Balancing of the books comes about as a result of additional end of year demands to net contributors, after the budgets have been exceeded.

Please name the independent auditors used by the EU and whether they may have close relationships to any EU Treasury employees. Don't bother - I'll tell you that the 'independent' auditors in question are The Court of Auditors based in Luxembourg. They don't seem to do much more auditing in the accepted sense.
And this experienced organisation (in all things EU, I suspect) has signed off the EU accounts with qualifications for the period from 1998 to 2014 stating that the regular 4% errors (of £130bn spend) are material. So not quite the clean bill of health claimed.

Ahh, those lovely chaps. I've had many a dealing with them and tedious doesn't do them justice. Humourless, grey suited and lacking any ability to engage a brain is my experience.

Yes, that would be my impression too. It seems to be only western Europe which can provide such a never ending cavalcade of non-entities to occupy positions of authority.

[thebish]

Boris c*nting Johnson? Iaiaian Duncan-Smith? Michael 'high overlord of gobshittery' Gove? Nigel f*cking Farage? Nigel Farage for jesus-weeping-christ. Farage! WTF doesnt even cover it.

What kind of social misfit would look upon that collection of miscreants and say "yup, I trust them to run their own bath"? Who?

I can't believe the world is so overloaded with idiots that we're seriously contemplating that balloon Trump as a US President and this shower actually has influence. Who was sleeping on their watch? How did we manage to regress so far?

Mmmm. I take you are not a keen supporter of some or all of the persons you mentioned above.

I'm sure, however, that you have realised that the referendum will not be asking you to to endorse such individuals but simply whether in your totally unbiased view there is any merit to to remain in the EU or whether it will be better in a totally biased view to exit the 'stultifying and going to hell in a handcart' bunch of losers who can't balance their budget or get annual accounts signed off for some twenty years.

Not that I am suggesting there is any evidence of corruption in FIFA, the EU or British Governments for the last 60 years.

The EU accounts have been passed by the independent auditors every year since 2007 as accurate, legal, regular and reliable. Furthermore, the EU has no debt or borrowings and the books are always balanced every year. (From 1994 to 2004, the EU budget was subject to cash-based accounting. Improved accruals-based accounting was introduced in 2005. The European Court of Auditors gave qualified approval to accounts until 2006, and unqualified approval - 'clean' opinion - since 2007.)

#

Excellent Bish. Balancing of the books comes about as a result of additional end of year demands to net contributors, after the budgets have been exceeded.

Please name the independent auditors used by the EU and whether they may have close relationships to any EU Treasury employees. Don't bother - I'll tell you that the 'independent' auditors in question are The Court of Auditors based in Luxembourg. They don't seem to do much more auditing in the accepted sense.
And this experienced organisation (in all things EU, I suspect) has signed off the EU accounts with qualifications for the period from 1998 to 2014 stating that the regular 4% errors (of £130bn spend) are material. So not quite the clean bill of health claimed.

well - you did claim they haven't been signed off for 20yrs - then you agree they have been signed off... now you're saying you disagree with the people who signed them off...

I didn't claim a "clean bill of health" I said that they had been signed off "as accurate, legal, regular and reliable" - which remains true.

just saying like...

[bedwetter2]

I know you are a sucker for semantics so:

I did say the accounts hadn't been signed off for 20 years, in fact it is 18 years including 1997 that they have been qualified. What does qualified mean? Essentially it means in the widest interpretation that there are significant - material - unknowns within the accounts so as to render the organisation at risk of default in some way. We of course know that isn't going to happen in the case of the EU because they can alway whistle up some more money from their captive shareholders - us.

Despite your protestation, presumably quoting an EU source, the accounts are neither "accurate or reliable" because they keep losing track of billions of pounds, euros, whatever each year. No one, including their rubber stamp auditors, know where the money has gone so you may believe the accounts have been keenly investigated and signed off but their accuracy would not stand up in a British court of law.

Now, because the Court of Auditors is a supranational body and not subject to the jurisdiction of any one state, they can ignore the standard accountancy rules in place in individual EU states and simply say that the accounts have been signed off. Try getting the same result in the UK as a commercial organisation submitting qualified accounts for 18 consecutive years.

Just saying like.

[thebish]

I'm not even sure what your key point is...

are you saying we should leave the EU because it is massively fraudulent or economically incompetent? it is neither... it's just a very large and complex organisation. What exactly ARE you suggesting with your whole not signed off (but actually are signed off) shizzle?

[Hoboh]

I'm not even sure what your key point is...

are you saying we should leave the EU because it is massively fraudulent or economically incompetent? it is neither... it's just a very large and complex organisation. What exactly ARE you suggesting with your whole not signed off (but actually are signed off) shizzle?

Either is a good enough reason!

it is neither... it's just a very large and complex organisation.

[thebish]

clearly - more emoticons = more proof!