European Second Referendum

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In or Out

IN (including all the rules and all the costs including increased costs).
7
44%
OUT (including a proper No Deal Brexit with no payment to the EU at all, and no more rule taking).
7
44%
MAY-be: or are you one of her followers?
2
13%
 
Total votes: 16

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Lost Leopard Spot
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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:05 pm

Latest published poll.
1,262 Tory party members:
16% supported May's deal
23% want renegotiation
50% No Deal leavers
7% no Brexiteer's
3% second referendum.

Mmmm, I wonder what Labour membership percentages would be, especially as grass root Labour voters supported Leave!

Bring it on.
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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:01 pm

What's the Telegraph & Mail told them to do?

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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:24 pm

Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:01 pm
What's the Telegraph & Mail told them to do?
No idea. I don't read them. I thought the Mail was rabid right wing! :conf:
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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Abdoulaye's Twin » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:42 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:24 pm
Abdoulaye's Twin wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:01 pm
What's the Telegraph & Mail told them to do?
No idea. I don't read them. I thought the Mail was rabid right wing! :conf:
New editor, slightly softer tune I hear.

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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:46 pm

(Courtesy of the Sunday Times) May proposes new date for Brexit vote: *May on the phone*, "how about never, never's good for me."
About sums her up...

I asked my car dealer for a car. He told me I must pay £39,000 upfront, and he'd decide later what car he'd let me have. He also insisted that my wife must drive his old car, and only her old car, no matter what. There is no discount, and he might charge later for any extras he'd not thought of yet! What a bargain!!! May deal, May deal ( or is that May day?).
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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:30 am

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:05 pm
Latest published poll.
1,262 Tory party members:
16% supported May's deal
23% want renegotiation
50% No Deal leavers
7% no Brexiteer's
3% second referendum.

Mmmm, I wonder what Labour membership percentages would be, especially as grass root Labour voters supported Leave!

Bring it on.
Polling has shown that 70% of Labour voters at the last GE want to remain.

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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Hoboh » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:46 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:37 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:26 pm
And yes, in economic terms, by all measures we will be poorer. But in democratic terms, by all measures we will be richer.

I prefer to be a poor honest peasant to a rich devious slave.
See and this the central point where you and I have a perfectly reasonable and valid disagreement, and one we'll never reconcile.

I do not believe we've gained democratically at all. And in my view recent events show exactly why we haven't. The EU did not rob our democracy they were not a dictatorship. They are a rules based club and if you want in you abide by the rules, but you also get a vote on them. We've chosen to leave but whilst leaving have suddenly realised we can't access the gym and sauna anymore - so we're trying to negotiate access but as part of that we'd like to be able to still use the gym and sauna but also do a huge dump in their swimming pool each time. Without paying for any of it. And we'd also like to be able to tell them how they should run their club because we don't want to still contribute with no say. Except none of that would wash - and in this context doesn't wash either. Perhaps the private club are salty we've left and are just being mean and difficult when they say we can no longer use their private car park when we're "nipping to the shops" and perhaps you know a nice thing to do would be to let us. But then we exercised our democratic right to leave.....
Utter, utter tosh!

Three letters dispel your myth ECJ

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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Hoboh » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:54 am

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:30 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:05 pm
Latest published poll.
1,262 Tory party members:
16% supported May's deal
23% want renegotiation
50% No Deal leavers
7% no Brexiteer's
3% second referendum.

Mmmm, I wonder what Labour membership percentages would be, especially as grass root Labour voters supported Leave!

Bring it on.
Polling has shown that 70% of Labour voters at the last GE want to remain.
And polls are accurate?

According to polls we would never have been in the position of Brexit, loony tune levers were nought but a handful of misguided, racist people lead by the treacherous Farage and Boris's of this world.

Huge swathes of labour heartlands voted out, did they poll just the foreign city of London labour voters?

Even the Daily Mail is now anti Brexit under its new editor, much against the wishes of its readers, so why would anyone take much notice of polls?

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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:09 pm

Hoboh wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:46 am
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:37 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:26 pm
And yes, in economic terms, by all measures we will be poorer. But in democratic terms, by all measures we will be richer.

I prefer to be a poor honest peasant to a rich devious slave.
See and this the central point where you and I have a perfectly reasonable and valid disagreement, and one we'll never reconcile.

I do not believe we've gained democratically at all. And in my view recent events show exactly why we haven't. The EU did not rob our democracy they were not a dictatorship. They are a rules based club and if you want in you abide by the rules, but you also get a vote on them. We've chosen to leave but whilst leaving have suddenly realised we can't access the gym and sauna anymore - so we're trying to negotiate access but as part of that we'd like to be able to still use the gym and sauna but also do a huge dump in their swimming pool each time. Without paying for any of it. And we'd also like to be able to tell them how they should run their club because we don't want to still contribute with no say. Except none of that would wash - and in this context doesn't wash either. Perhaps the private club are salty we've left and are just being mean and difficult when they say we can no longer use their private car park when we're "nipping to the shops" and perhaps you know a nice thing to do would be to let us. But then we exercised our democratic right to leave.....
Utter, utter tosh!

Three letters dispel your myth ECJ
The ECJ arbitrates on European law. Who else would you want to do it? And in simple terms if you're a private club member you want an arbitration panel. You don't want any dispute to result in a 27 way argument over who should make the final call.....

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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:31 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:30 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:05 pm
Latest published poll.
1,262 Tory party members:
16% supported May's deal
23% want renegotiation
50% No Deal leavers
7% no Brexiteer's
3% second referendum.

Mmmm, I wonder what Labour membership percentages would be, especially as grass root Labour voters supported Leave!

Bring it on.
Polling has shown that 70% of Labour voters at the last GE want to remain.
Really! I think not.
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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:36 pm

Anyway, with the Benn amendments to the so-called meaningful vote on the Brexit deal [which isn't meaningful and isn't a vote about a Brexit deal], parliament intends to railroad the process onto a Remain track. We've been duped... eighteen months plus of pure political bullshit.
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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by TANGODANCER » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:08 pm

Without commenting on the rights and wrongs of it all, I had to laugh at (?) claiming "Bring it back to the people!"..waves clenched fist above head to audience. If you want to gain support for anything, always pretend you're on the side of "the people". What about those who totally disagree? Are they not "the people" ?. Weakest bandwaggon banner ever, yet still they trot it out with Joan of Arc fervour shining out of their eyes......as I said, I laughed at the brazen bullshxtery of manipulative campaigning. :lol:
The wisest and the best of men, nay, the wisest and best of their actions, may be rendered ridiculous by a person whose first object in life is a joke...Darcy. Pride and Prejudice.

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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:29 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:08 pm
Without commenting on the rights and wrongs of it all, I had to laugh at (?) claiming "Bring it back to the people!"..waves clenched fist above head to audience. If you want to gain support for anything, always pretend you're on the side of "the people". What about those who totally disagree? Are they not "the people" ?. Weakest bandwaggon banner ever, yet still they trot it out with Joan of Arc fervour shining out of their eyes......as I said, I laughed at the brazen bullshxtery of manipulative campaigning. :lol:
Correct. In Remainers' eyes they are the People.
Leavers in Remainers' eyes are ignorant, racist, uneducated, imbeciles, who make up a tiny percentage of the population.

More people voted to leave the EU than any winning margin in any election ever held in this country, ever, about anything. You can take the largest political landslide vote for any party over the last 300 years, and the number of people who voted for 'it' were less than the number who voted Leave. But we don't count, because half of us didn't actually mean it coz we didn't have a fxcking clue, and the other half are extremist rabble rousers who don't deserve to have a vote, or be citizens...
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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Prufrock » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:33 pm

That's an odd agreement given you then go on to make exactly the same argument but in support of your side!
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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:35 pm

Prufrock wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:33 pm
That's an odd agreement given you then go on to make exactly the same argument but in support of your side!
I was being ironic. Duh! Actually, no, Sarcastic.
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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:36 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:31 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:30 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:05 pm
Latest published poll.
1,262 Tory party members:
16% supported May's deal
23% want renegotiation
50% No Deal leavers
7% no Brexiteer's
3% second referendum.

Mmmm, I wonder what Labour membership percentages would be, especially as grass root Labour voters supported Leave!

Bring it on.
Polling has shown that 70% of Labour voters at the last GE want to remain.
Really! I think not.
Sorry it was 65%. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... tain-voted

But still...

86% of Labour members want a 2nd referendum.

https://www.ft.com/content/dc56ee36-bea ... 6dfef1b89a

There is a shift in politics. Labour now represent the under 50's University educated, City dwellers. That is their core vote now. Which is a rather large overlap with the remain vote.

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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:37 pm

TANGODANCER wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:08 pm
Without commenting on the rights and wrongs of it all, I had to laugh at (?) claiming "Bring it back to the people!"..waves clenched fist above head to audience. If you want to gain support for anything, always pretend you're on the side of "the people". What about those who totally disagree? Are they not "the people" ?. Weakest bandwaggon banner ever, yet still they trot it out with Joan of Arc fervour shining out of their eyes......as I said, I laughed at the brazen bullshxtery of manipulative campaigning. :lol:
You realise the reason it has been called the "people's vote" is to distinguish it from the Parliamentary votes don't you?

Anyhow May is ducking the vote. Running away. As per.....

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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:48 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:36 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:31 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:30 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:05 pm
Latest published poll.
1,262 Tory party members:
16% supported May's deal
23% want renegotiation
50% No Deal leavers
7% no Brexiteer's
3% second referendum.

Mmmm, I wonder what Labour membership percentages would be, especially as grass root Labour voters supported Leave!

Bring it on.
Polling has shown that 70% of Labour voters at the last GE want to remain.
Really! I think not.
Sorry it was 65%. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... tain-voted

But still...

86% of Labour members want a 2nd referendum.

https://www.ft.com/content/dc56ee36-bea ... 6dfef1b89a

There is a shift in politics. Labour now represent the under 50's University educated, City dwellers. That is their core vote now. Which is a rather large overlap with the remain vote.
If you looked closely at what you, yourself, posted, you'll notice that that was 2015. Not the last GE then!!!
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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:51 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:37 pm
TANGODANCER wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:08 pm
Without commenting on the rights and wrongs of it all, I had to laugh at (?) claiming "Bring it back to the people!"..waves clenched fist above head to audience. If you want to gain support for anything, always pretend you're on the side of "the people". What about those who totally disagree? Are they not "the people" ?. Weakest bandwaggon banner ever, yet still they trot it out with Joan of Arc fervour shining out of their eyes......as I said, I laughed at the brazen bullshxtery of manipulative campaigning. :lol:
You realise the reason it has been called the "people's vote" is to distinguish it from the Parliamentary votes don't you?

Anyhow May is ducking the vote. Running away. As per.....
She's not running away. She's deliberately manipulating it such that Parliament can overwhelm the previous People's Vote. She is, and always has been one of yours - a Remainer.
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Re: European Second Referendum

Post by BWFC_Insane » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:55 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:48 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:36 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:31 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:30 am
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:05 pm
Latest published poll.
1,262 Tory party members:
16% supported May's deal
23% want renegotiation
50% No Deal leavers
7% no Brexiteer's
3% second referendum.

Mmmm, I wonder what Labour membership percentages would be, especially as grass root Labour voters supported Leave!

Bring it on.
Polling has shown that 70% of Labour voters at the last GE want to remain.
Really! I think not.
Sorry it was 65%. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... tain-voted

But still...

86% of Labour members want a 2nd referendum.

https://www.ft.com/content/dc56ee36-bea ... 6dfef1b89a

There is a shift in politics. Labour now represent the under 50's University educated, City dwellers. That is their core vote now. Which is a rather large overlap with the remain vote.
If you looked closely at what you, yourself, posted, you'll notice that that was 2015. Not the last GE then!!!
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/e ... sed-brexit

Ok - this states 3 quarters of Labour voters in 2017 were remain voters. Not really sure why this is being discussed. We clearly know that the vast majority of Labour members and supporters NOW are remain voters.

It isn't even worth discussing. We know that some Labour supporters traditionally are Brexit supporters - but they aren't voting for Corbyn's Labour regardless.

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