Your worst nightmare.............

[boltonboris]

and apparantly they are 'inivted' to have a kick about on the pitch beofre games and are consulted about possible transfer targets

[Mar]

Your refusal to give any ground to teh US almost proves my point. The world hates us (often with good reason) and from a political and sporting point of view you obviously have no respect for the United States.

It's phrases like this that make me discredit America and reaffirm my belief that the US national squad is as average as most people think. It makes you think and the reasons that come up don't affirm the US as a great national team.

I think the phrase 'the world hates us' gets used far too often and when it is valid it doesn't give off any credibility. Sure the world has a dislike to some of the US policies doesn't mean that we aren't able to give a valid account of the US sports. If we did dislike America as much as you make out we'd consider the US basketball and baseball teams as being quite poor but that isn't the case.

Truth of the matter is Europe is littered with a multitude of talented sides and we see a wide variation of players all plying their trade in the toughest leagues in the world. I don't think its unreasonable to compare the US team with the Mexican national team. Both have good players with experience of plying their trade in some of the top leagues (Borgetti, Marquez, Torrado - Reyna, McBride, Beasley). But compared to the likes of the Czech's, Sweden and Holland both Mexico and the US don't suggest that they've got better teams.

Team spirit will be a major thing for Mexico and the US this time round and thankfully both will be tested in this world cup.

[picaro]

i never thought i would be coming out to defend the US team but here it goes....

MAR brings up an interesting, and true, point. US has talented players and are not necessarily as strong as a team as the players talent would suggest. however, Arena (and believe me i hate admitting this) knows how to get the best of his lineup even if it means benching a 'star' player. the problem with the US is that it doesn't participate in tournaments enough and thus can never prove themselves or much less grow. they have refused to enter the Copa America and friendlies are not enough to compete on the world stage. I think the US can compete with the Czechs and Sweden (however not England or Brazil or Argentina yet)

i feel like i've ridden myself of a hairball......VIVA MEXICO CABRONES!!

[americantrotter]

So you admit to being Eurocentric then? I understand European football, remember when push comes to shove I am an England fan 1st. The major difference for me is the chances I get to see the other side of the coin. Do you think that the Germans would chant about the recent subway bombings in a qualifier? You dont think chanting Osama Bin Laden's name is a bit over the top? You want to discredit my appeal for US respect based on my defense of their road game environments?

20 years ago there were no Americans in Europe. Now there are many. Europe wants to see several succeed before they buy into a nation's talent. Not to mention the players have to be willing to go. The US and Mexico cant do much about the lack of quality in their geographic zone, but it doesnt mean they arent still talented.

[communistworkethic]

So you admit to being Eurocentric then? I understand European football, remember when push comes to shove I am an England fan 1st. The major difference for me is the chances I get to see the other side of the coin. Do you think that the Germans would chant about the recent subway bombings in a qualifier? You dont think chanting Osama Bin Laden's name is a bit over the top? You want to discredit my appeal for US respect based on my defense of their road game environments?

20 years ago there were no Americans in Europe. Now there are many. Europe wants to see several succeed before they buy into a nation's talent. Not to mention the players have to be willing to go. The US and Mexico cant do much about the lack of quality in their geographic zone, but it doesnt mean they arent still talented.

This is gettig boring now. Your blinkered view of world football does you no service, your denial of the abuse of players and fans alike from other countries is worrying. The naiveity which it takes to suggest the USA is the only team that gets a hard time in away games is insular and self-pitying.

If your players can't handle abuse then they lack the mental toughness required to succeed at the highest level. Go watch a game at Galatasary or Fenerbache or a Celtic v Rangers game, there you will see pure unadulterated hatred. At the Celtic/Rangers game you will here such abuse it is a beyond belief in some cases, sectarian hatred at a level matched only on the streets of Northern Ireland during the 70s and 80s, and both clubs play up to this and without sanction.

The USA cretainly rates in the top 32 teams in the world and it may rank in the top 16 even. But that is as a team, a team is that is greater than the sum of it's parts. There are individuals who ply there trade overseas but none have reached the heights of players from other emerging football powers - the likes of Eto'o for example. Yet the USA has had much longer to reach this level than the African nations.

You'll say "ah but we're the new boys to the game", which is nonsence, the USA has been playing the game for many many years. The fact is that the USA has failed with football because it's been a middle-class white game for too long, instead of the game of the working man. Only in the immigrant populations has the game held that status and they weren't allowed to join in. So it's been the loss of USA Soccer that it didn't think about the game's sucees rather than the TV's ability to use it.

Yes TV that cornerstone of US life, ruined the chances of US Soccer, the format wasn't right for it, not enough opportunity for adverts, not enough stats and not enough points. And the market for the sport didn't have the money to buy the stuff that would be advertised any way. You played with a league in the 70's, a Circus Sideshow of a competition with former greats scattered amongst nobodies playing to empty stadia.

Then FIFA decided to give you the world cup to appease the huge american sponsors, you set up a league and almost let it whither on the vine after one of the most passionless tournaments ever. Since then the league has grown but the level of perfomance of those teams remains well behind those in south america, asia, europe and some in africa.

It's these reasons why we don't feel that this constant pushing of US players as the answer to to the transfer rquirements is warranted. A couple of premiersip players, one in Gremany and one in Belgium doesn't make the US a hotbed of football talent to be tapped. Not yet at least.

[Mar]

So you admit to being Eurocentric then? I understand European football, remember when push comes to shove I am an England fan 1st.

I openly admit to knowing more about European teams than I do about USA, Trinidad & Tobago, Mexico, Australia, etc.

But that doesn't mean I don't understand the rationale of the US media and how overhyped players are over there. Take the likes of Landon Donovan and Freddy Adu. Both are quite good players but they are very overhyped as landmarks in US football.

It's not justification for your judgement of the US national team because of your support for the England team first.

If I made a statement to Europeans saying that England should be considered as good as Brazil because of the qualities we have in the squad a lot of Europeans would disagree and look at teams around our quality level (for example Argentina) for a fair comparison. All i'm doing is the same with the US yet the main thing i've found is that American's have a strong tendency to think its insulting.

It's as if the progression in the last world cup was a statement saying they'd arrived on the world stage and any sort of discredit aimed towards the US was wholly unjust.

The major difference for me is the chances I get to see the other side of the coin. Do you think that the Germans would chant about the recent subway bombings in a qualifier? You dont think chanting Osama Bin Laden's name is a bit over the top? You want to discredit my appeal for US respect based on my defense of their road game environments?

Knowing more about a particular continent doesn't blind my view on the happenings inside and outside the continent. I've seen the disgraceful acts that have happened in European football and International football and I know about what happens when teams meet each other. And I can say for a fact that its not just the USA that gets volleys of abuse aimed towards it, so I honestly don't see how I should take that as a driving factor in my decision as which is the better team.

Germans chanting about recent subway bombings.. well thats to be expected, they get inundated with chants about the world wars. It's not a one sided dagger and i'm sure that the US aren't as innocent as their press would like to make out.

And its not just those that begrudge the wars that get the stick either, take the Italy vs. Wales games a few years ago. Believe me when I say that it is whatever excuse to rile the opposition, Osama and Bombings are the main order of the day.

20 years ago there were no Americans in Europe. Now there are many. Europe wants to see several succeed before they buy into a nation's talent. Not to mention the players have to be willing to go.

Take the number of foreigners plying their trade in England 20 years ago. It's not just America that has players playing abroad now and I don't see why that should be a decision affecting how I see the players.

The market for US players is their because foreigners see the US as a major selling point (like the NFL) there is plenty of money to be had by playing these players abroad (DaMarcus Beasley for PSV) because they pay for themselves with sponsorship deals and shirt sales. Similarly it is the reason why Premiership clubs like Bolton are tapping into the Asian Market (Wuhan links and Nakata being prime examples). There are other reasons why people would buy from America and that is why there are so many plying their trade abroad, quality is just the reason why they manage to play games for the side.

The US and Mexico cant do much about the lack of quality in their geographic zone, but it doesnt mean they arent still talented.

Thats spot on that statement. But i'm not going to confuse level of talent because they are under-challenged. When i've seen the US beat European opposition not one player has stood out it has always been the team. No specific player looks like a world beater (in the same breath as Ronaldinho or Shevchenko has) and that is why I don't consider the level of talent to be overly high at the moment.

Sure the US has talent (Reyna, etc) but i'm not going to jump the gun when I can blatantly see that the best part of the US national side is its ability to work as a team.

[picaro]

Mar...well said. to play devil's advocate ... US fans are so proud of their team and happy at the fact that the sport which in large part has been ignored in the country gets a few snippets now (still largely ignored) and then and thus create this philosophy of being underappreciated. US fans can't be blamed (and by fans i mean true football fans not the wave-the-flag but know feck-all about footy) for their desire to see the US appreciated on the world stage. The media however can be blamed...they do talk like the US are a superpower and that Donovan is among the world's elite. or that the "goog" at 6'4 is the world's top defender ( he has possibility but has yet to prove himself and has time to do it). i for one have a love-hate relationship with US fans....love the idea that the US has grown as a footy nation, but hate the media-spin and bandwagon-fans.

[americantrotter]

FFS people you dont listen.

I am tired of arguing with people who dont listen. The US is not as good as England/Argentina/Brazil/Holland/France/Italy but that doesnt mean that they are shite. They have to put up with an aspect of global hatred that England hasnt faced in 50 years.

This is gettig boring now. Your blinkered view of world football does you no service, your denial of the abuse of players and fans alike from other countries is worrying. The naiveity which it takes to suggest the USA is the only team that gets a hard time in away games is insular and self-pitying.

It had been a while commie. You dont listen. I have no blinkered view of world football. I do not deny that players face abuse elsewhere. I have said many times that the fans are irrelevant as I was never talking about them in the 1st place. I was only pointing out that the US face a high level of pressure in their away matches in near 3rd world countries. You can keep bleating on about your Bolton experience, but I thought this was a WORLD CUP thread? Please read what I say, I know that other countries get it tough too. My entire point was that CONCACAF isnt as easy as it looks due to the treatment the US players receive. Aside from a few nations in Europe those things would never happen in UEFA during qualifying to the PLAYERS. Your Eurocentrism is disgusting from someone who seems to be so intelligent.

As for the rest of your post it is fairly accurate. I just dont care about the Old Firm, because it's adomestic club game. I'm not worried about Americans treatment in that game. Plus if the players were in danger in that match they would call it off. That wont happen though becuse they have adequate security to protect the players.

[americantrotter]

If I made a statement to Europeans saying that England should be considered as good as Brazil because of the qualities we have in the squad a lot of Europeans would disagree and look at teams around our quality level (for example Argentina) for a fair comparison. All i'm doing is the same with the US yet the main thing i've found is that American's have a strong tendency to think its insulting.

I was speaking once again to the situation the US finds itself in georgraphically and how that affects their group play. It's simply not as easy as playing the crap teams we are surrounded by. (barring Mexico) I have never said that the US was the best, I am hoping that they are a top 10 side, but in all fairness they are a top 13/14. I find your attitude insulting that you think because I proffer the US team's ability that I am saying they are number 1.

[communistworkethic]

and your rants mean you don't read our posts AT. Neither Mar nor myself have said USA are crap, as a team they work well but the faith you put in the individuals is misguided. USA are 10 maybe 15 years behind the African nations for producing players of quality regularly.

Where you get Eurocentrism from is beyond me, I've referenced every continent bar Antartica. Tell the players who go to turkey and are greeted by the "welcome to hell" banners they have it easy compared to the USA. You see European and South American players play week in week out in inhospitable venues, they've gotten used to it. Lot's of clubs and countries make it difficult for visiting teams, especially those who are perhaps a little weaker technically. It's time good old USA got used to it and got on with kicking the ball about instead of searching for lame excuses for not investing in the game for 50 years.

[Mar]

If I made a statement to Europeans saying that England should be considered as good as Brazil because of the qualities we have in the squad a lot of Europeans would disagree and look at teams around our quality level (for example Argentina) for a fair comparison. All i'm doing is the same with the US yet the main thing i've found is that American's have a strong tendency to think its insulting.

I was speaking once again to the situation the US finds itself in georgraphically and how that affects their group play. It's simply not as easy as playing the crap teams we are surrounded by. (barring Mexico) I have never said that the US was the best, I am hoping that they are a top 10 side, but in all fairness they are a top 13/14. I find your attitude insulting that you think because I proffer the US team's ability that I am saying they are number 1.

You take my post and because I disagree with your statements you immediately exemplify the extreme view.

You post about the US having to face teams in 3rd world and thats the reason its difficult. I hardly consider that to be a problem. The US teams face teams that struggle to get a team put together because of work problems, travel costs, etc. The problem is rife in those countries in a similar way to those in Asia. It doesn't mean that i'm going to give extra credit to the teams that play them because of the problems they suffer when visiting those countries. Take the likes of Saudi Arabia, they have problems getting the team together and still play in what can be seen as a warzone environment. It doesn't mean there should be extra credit. It's a problem that teams face and just because America isn't the most popular country doesn't mean that there should be any special dispensation in determining the quality of the national team.

It's like saying the Columbian team should be given more credit because of the extra pressure they face because there players will be shot for missing penalties.

All i'm saying is that the US is IMO on a par with Mexico and that still is seemingly not enough for you.

[Batman]

Will you lot shut the hell up and watch the football. You are boring the pants off me.

[americantrotter]

Will you lot shut the hell up and watch the football. You are boring the pants off me.

Will do. I think I am missing as much from their posts as they are from mine.

[boltonboris]

At the end of the day, for any European or even better than that for any nation in the world, playing England at home is the 'big one' and the hostility and violence that greets the players and fans is simply irational, I've been to Bratislava and Turkey watching my country and I have genuinely feared for the life of our players and supporters, this isnt just political hatred Its personal as we are a 'superpower' and to get one over the english hoolies genuine supporters and superstar footballers is all that matters to some football 'fans', I really dont think Americans endure what we endure on away trips. Maybe in Iran if you played there, bunt not so much anywhere else I should imagine

[americantrotter]

It is nearly time. Time to put the arguments to rest and see what's what. I'll be popping out to watch the match so I'll see you in a couple of hours, and oh Yeah.......................

USA! USA! USA!

[Dr Hotdog]

not looking forwards to Tommy Rosicky at the Reebok in Arsenal colours next sesaon.

humiliated.

H Pedersen, i don't like the look of Onywonoau, or Eddie Johnson. even D'Marcus Beasley looked like absolute gash.

rubbish display, one of the best players on the pitch was Claude Reyna!

[americantrotter]

I thought Johnson was a lone bright spot. Reyna is too slow though an excellent player. He might have been able to block Rosicky if he had any speed.

[picaro]

this is how the US team generally plays but is at least on target. i've seen quite a few matches where there was no organization but one play is all it took. this i believe is their strong-suit, sloppy-play equals wins by a single play because it is usually disruptive to the other team but not the czechs this time. i really think the US would vastly improve if they played in tournaments rather than the occasional friendly (which thankfully Arena now has the US doing). US has good players but you can't count on what team will show up: the team with a disruptive influence, but can put together solid threats or the team that is only disruptive to themselves....the defense was more than lacking, it was non-existent and this i think is the US strongest feature.

[americantrotter]

They were nervey to say the least. I also think Arena got the tactics wrong. Donovan should have been in midfield. We'll see if they can make a better accounting of themselves on Saturday.

[H. Pedersen]

not looking forwards to Tommy Rosicky at the Reebok in Arsenal colours next sesaon.

humiliated.

H Pedersen, i don't like the look of Onywonoau, or Eddie Johnson. even D'Marcus Beasley looked like absolute gash.

rubbish display, one of the best players on the pitch was Claude Reyna!

Yes, poor game by almost everyone. However, I disagree about Johnson, I thought he was one of the few who came out with any dignity intact. Beasley was terrible, but then again he has been in poor form for a while so that's really Arena's fault for playing him. He can't do anything on the right.