What are you watching tonight?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Either way, the quality of writing fell off a cliff when they actually had to come up with original material.

Yup.
It's now obvious that they will also fudge the ending. They (Weiss and the other) are both serious fans of other TV series where the ending gets fudged.
(Ooooh, never thought of Game of Thrones 2, honest guv . Too busy writing the prequel...)

[jimbo]

I’ve little knowledge of Game of Thrones other than it’s based on a series of books and has dragons and fighting. I’ve been hearing loads about people desperate to see the ending and speculating what it might be. Up until this point I assumed it was just following the books and the answer would be in there. Am I wrong?

[Enoch]

All brings to mind those Eastenders cliff edge endings.

Never understood how folk get so wrapped up in a work of fiction.

Dragons you say, hmmmm...

[TANGODANCER]

Last episode of the current "Line of Duty" series. Top class police procedural viewing based around real life cases investigated by Internal Affairs. A stipulated 14 million viewers are expected to tune in to this. Excellent. It doesn't pull punches.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

I’ve little knowledge of Game of Thrones other than it’s based on a series of books and has dragons and fighting. I’ve been hearing loads about people desperate to see the ending and speculating what it might be. Up until this point I assumed it was just following the books and the answer would be in there. Am I wrong?

Yes. Martin, the author was writing a trilogy when the series got taken up by HBO. Unfortunately, Martin is still writing the last book. He told the directors of the TV programme the basic outline of the plot, but that didn't apparently include a precis of all the characters' fates. Therefore the film and book may diverge significantly whilst still having a final similar denouement.
A follow on series and a prequel are being negotiated. Martin will write the prequel as another series of books, but after the start of the prequel filming! Martin will not be writing the sequel, at all.

[BWFC_Insane]

I’ve little knowledge of Game of Thrones other than it’s based on a series of books and has dragons and fighting. I’ve been hearing loads about people desperate to see the ending and speculating what it might be. Up until this point I assumed it was just following the books and the answer would be in there. Am I wrong?

Yes. Martin, the author was writing a trilogy when the series got taken up by HBO. Unfortunately, Martin is still writing the last book. He told the directors of the TV programme the basic outline of the plot, but that didn't apparently include a precis of all the characters' fates. Therefore the film and book may diverge significantly whilst still having a final similar denouement.
A follow on series and a prequel are being negotiated. Martin will write the prequel as another series of books, but after the start of the prequel filming! Martin will not be writing the sequel, at all.

The last episode was definitely a disappointment. To many characters acting "out of character". Just random decisions that they'd never make. I guess this is what happens when you are rushing to the end in 6 episodes.

[TANGODANCER]

Either way, the quality of writing fell off a cliff when they actually had to come up with original material.

Not just Game of Thrones, but a few series in general. I've always enjoyed the Jason Bourne series, but the latter plots were weak, repetitive, predictable, unbelievable and reliant on extended car chases. We read the books, wore the T-shirts and bought the videos of great car chases in Bullit, The French Connection and Ronin, now the current ones are all old hat;(that's a bit of an oxymoron, I know) same chases with uprated modern vehicles. Time maybe for Bourne to "come in"? In fact, maybe time for a few heroes to take a break. James Bond, whilst having great stunt work, is all about spectacle and boring sex scenes with plots so weak that they shout out to bring back Dick Barton. John Le Carre is about the only realistic film material since Jack Reacher lost a foot in height. Even his books are running out of steam as he ages. The B.B.C are leaders in drama right now , more St John's Wood than Hollywood. Time for a new hero (no, not heroine thanks, or ones that can fly; we have enough of both right now). Endeavour is leaving the rest standing, and that's 1970. Bring on Line of Duty next series.....

[Bruce Rioja]

Just catching up with The Virtues from last night.

It's staple Shane Meadows (brilliant) stuff, but Stephen Graham's performance is nothing short of magnificent.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

...anyway. meeja blackout upcoming. I have no intention of being on a smart phone or actually out in public in person until Tuesday morning.
The postman and milkman have both been bribed to keep shtum.
See y'all Toosday.

[TANGODANCER]

Might just watch the film version of "Spooks, The Greater good" on B.B.C 1 at 10-30 tonight.

[TANGODANCER]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48294687

Watched this last night. An interesting and revealing look at mental health withing sport.

[jimbo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48294687

Watched this last night. An interesting and revealing look at mental health within sport.

Saw about 5 minutes of it, which happened to be the bit where crouch was talking about the impact of crowds chanting ‘freak’ and ‘does the circus know you’re here?’ at him. Took me right back to those ringing around the Reebok whenever we played against him. When discussed on a human level years later in the program it clearly comes across as an awful thing to shout at him yet it felt normal and ok at the time given the fact everyone in the crowd was joining in.

[BWFC_Insane]

Game of thrones - a satisfying if somewhat "wtf" ending.

But the series suffered from brevity. Too many things happened that in the context of the show and what had been before that did not make sense without some significant viewer "interpretation". And GoT has never in the past been about that.

[Lost Leopard Spot]

Transferred it here -

Do you think Game of Thrones would balk at portrayal of these loving relationships you are defining as part of 21st century British culture?

I'm tired of arguing about serious stuff - what did you think of the GoT ending?

I loved it. I thought it gave a satisfying ending whilst leaving open the possibility of spin offs, which I'd watch.

I'm not one who thought Daenery's progression was wrong. It seemed realistic to me. She believed in what she was doing. The fact Jon Snow was persuaded was also cool.

I loved Drogon melting the Iron Throne and then flying off. I loved the reunion with Shadow and Jon Snow. I loved the fact that Jon was exiled to Castle Black, never to be married, but just fxcked off north as 'king' of the Wildlings.
I especially look forward to seeing what is west of Westeros.

The only really annoying bits were the lack of continuity between Jon stabbing Daenery's and the council meeting - although I can see why that was contracted to a mere fugue.
And why Greyworm didn't just kick Tyrion to bits rather than let him decide what was to happen at the council. But I can live with both jarring incidents.

Overall I'll give it 9 out of 10.

Favourite bit: Brienne filling in Jaimie's White Book entry
Worst Bit: Samwell Tarly producing the Song of Ice & Fire tome.

They've already said no "spin offs" and said Arya to West of Westeros spin off specifically is not happening. Which is a shame. Think its just a prequel in the works.

I think whilst overall I enjoyed it my view is that the final series was a let down in some ways and pure didn't make sense in others.

Let down: Arya's ability to "adopt faces" was completely ignored. And given she wanted Cersei dead and could become anyone she chose surely Jon/Daenerys would have gone "hang on a second"?

The children of the forest thread was completely shut down to an irrelevance, inspite of season 7 clearly steering towards significance. In the end the night king was just "killed" in the most basic manner.

The revelation about Jon's family line made absolutely no difference to the outcome. Had he not known that the events would not have played out any differently. Daenerys still wouldn't have been liked by his Northern comrades, she still would have lost Jorah, Missandei and her dragon...and still would have flipped. And one has to assume Jon still would have killed her.



Didn't make sense:
Daenerys' character ark - it made sense on a base level but given she's basically traversed the whole time on the edge of "being good" but potentially teetering over the edge - it made little sense that all of a sudden based on a little provocation (in the grand scheme of things seeing your friend beheaded is irksome in GoT land more than rage inducing)....and some isolation which didn't ever entirely make sense....more needed to happen in the character development to explain that sudden "rage".

Tyrion - a bright cynical bloke who was a) repeatedly naive enough to think Cersei would ever do the right thing and b) followed Daenerys around and watched her burn people alive but all of a sudden got a bit squeamish when she destroyed a city....it didn't entirely make sense. A growing sense of worry sure. Being unsure. Yep. But having seen what he had to suddenly flip - seems a bit far fetched in the context that he knew his sister was evil.

One episode the fleet could hit a dragon flying far away across it, then couldn't hit one flying straight at them dead on and closer. Then the next episode the single dragon wiped out a fleet and city without a moment's danger....

Having reached the throne and knowing how she'd taken it and that she was essentially "alone" would Daenerys seriously not have been protected at that point? Would she have trusted Jon Snow given it was clear he wasn't up for "banging his aunt" at this point? And given she knew he was unlikely to be happy.....

I've been told by a reliable source that HBO have paid Martin for the rights to "Arya's future" nearly four years ago (BBC producer who lives two miles away who I drink with, and was very upset he couldn't secure the deal - having the rights doesn't necessarily mean they will produce, but I'd put money on it). It includes a clause that the books need to be finished before production can start. It also includes provision for potentially other Stark characters to be 'part of the story' but monies have not changed hands over that.

Unlike yourself, I don't think Daenery's has shown that much goodness. Revisit the scene where her brother is crowned by liquid gold.

Tyrion - in real life people don't make sense. He has always been squeamish. His character arc has shown him being less hedonistic and more moral through time. Nothing in the last series contradicted anything in the previous seven.

Rhaegar (was that his name) was taken out by a weapon Daenery's didn't know existed - it was reavealed as a secret weapon in series 5 (or 4). The trouble with secret weapons is once deployed they are no longer secret.
I was quite enamoured by the symbolism of Drogon streaking out of the sky from the sun - very battle of Britain. It also highlighted Daenery's "rage" - berserkr as our Viking ancestors knew!

The throne scene, I thought poignant. There she was admiring it - you'll note she never actually sat on it. Just then, Jon walks in. He's passed Greyworm, dothraki and Tyrion on his way to confront her - they let him pass. Why would Daenery's suddenly get hysterical at being alone with Jon Snow? I thought it made perfect sense.

I get your point it felt rushed. I think in a way that was because for once a long running series was deliberately wound up, which again, I thought was remarkably different: (no more dithering about whether ratings will handle a further series, as per Lost, Homeland, Breaking Bad etc.)

I'm sorry you thought it a shallow climax. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I even like all the hanging questions we'll never get to know. A bit like life.

Shallow isn't the word. I guess I felt there were just more possibilities unexplored. Like Arya posing as Jamie to kill Cersei or whatever. Better minds can think of superior ones than I.

I know those who read the books say that the TV portrayal of Daenerys was hugely problematic as it made her seem far better, far more "good" than the books. And I guess the problem being that the show's writers set off not knowing the ending. The book readers say that the show set itself up for the backlash with its portrayal. Daenerys was essentially in the show - prepared to do bad things to bad people to help vulnerable people. Sometimes she crossed lines and vulnerable people suffered. But she always rowed back and just about did the right thing (In my view). Ultimately the options seemed to be "starve the city and bring Cersei out" favoured by Jon/Tyrion or "burn the city down". Not sure that burning it was so bad as to merit complete arc of good to evil based on what had been before - but the show certainly tried hard to do an about turn quickly. It was foreshadowed clearly but I'm still somewhat unconvinced. Not that it was the plot - that is fine but more in the execution. It felt like another episode to show the descent and attempts to prevent it was needed at least.

They seem pretty conclusive about no spin offs - I'd love an Arya one but I suspect given the books are delayed and D&D are off to star wars and Martin doesn't want anyone else making GoT in time stuff - its not happening.

https://www.slashfilm.com/game-of-thrones-arya-spinoff/

I can tell you quite confidently that HBO do have the rights to an Arya spin off. Bought with cash. It will be a matter of time. Be patient, I'd say four years, but it will happen...

[BWFC_Insane]

No doubt they have the rights - and the hint at the end was clear...but it seems to me like plans might have changed.

Perhaps Maisie is too expensive now? Or maybe Martin has put a stop to it?

[Lost Leopard Spot]

No doubt they have the rights - and the hint at the end was clear...but it seems to me like plans might have changed.

Perhaps Maisie is too expensive now? Or maybe Martin has put a stop to it?

Martin can't put a stop to it, contracts are signed.
But however, nobody has contracted Maisey Williams to anything. Without her it would, in my opinion not be worth making. Certain actors define roles; certain roles need specific actors.
I don't think any plans have changed. It's just until Martin finishes his books HBO can't start filming. So they are keeping a very tight lid on speculation, to the point of denial.

But I do know that the BBC tried to get the rights and were turned down because the rights had already been sold before an auction (which my source tells me means that a very significant multimillion pound offer had already been snapped up - which my source also informs me means there is zero chance of a series not taking place).
The prequel is a different matter: that is nailed on guaranteed... Strangely however, the contract doesn't stipulate the prequel series should follow the books' storyline nor vice versa...

[jmjhb]

At least HBO can get to producing quality shows again, like Chernobyl that's airing at the moment.

[BWFC_Insane]

No doubt they have the rights - and the hint at the end was clear...but it seems to me like plans might have changed.

Perhaps Maisie is too expensive now? Or maybe Martin has put a stop to it?

Martin can't put a stop to it, contracts are signed.
But however, nobody has contracted Maisey Williams to anything. Without her it would, in my opinion not be worth making. Certain actors define roles; certain roles need specific actors.
I don't think any plans have changed. It's just until Martin finishes his books HBO can't start filming. So they are keeping a very tight lid on speculation, to the point of denial.

But I do know that the BBC tried to get the rights and were turned down because the rights had already been sold before an auction (which my source tells me means that a very significant multimillion pound offer had already been snapped up - which my source also informs me means there is zero chance of a series not taking place).
The prequel is a different matter: that is nailed on guaranteed... Strangely however, the contract doesn't stipulate the prequel series should follow the books' storyline nor vice versa...

Prequel is divorced from Martin and the storyline. In the universe is all. Least that’s what I’ve read. Not sure I’ll bother but we shall see...

[Lost Leopard Spot]

At least HBO can get to producing quality shows again, like Chernobyl that's airing at the moment.

Chernobyl is superb.

[CrazyHorse]

Bit late to the party on this but the American version of The Office is superb television.