Administration and recovery
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- truewhite15
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Re: Administration and recovery
Quite possibly the most accurate thing you've said for weeks.Lost Leopard Spot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:25 pmBut then again, I know nowt. I'm just a fxcking irritating nutter...
- Lost Leopard Spot
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Re: Administration and recovery
I was waiting for that one!truewhite15 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:29 pmQuite possibly the most accurate thing you've said for weeks.Lost Leopard Spot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:25 pmBut then again, I know nowt. I'm just a fxcking irritating nutter...
So go on, tell me where I'm wrong?
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Re: Administration and recovery
It doesn't make sense to me. I don't think you're saying that the PFA would be legally required to pay the players their wages (in full, or topping up the pennies in the pound they'd get in liquidation). But that a cash rich organisation like the PFA isn't going to let the players end up out of pocket after 6 months of not being paid.Lost Leopard Spot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:21 pmBecause it's a fall back position. Why pay it when you don't have to, why lend it when you don't need to?Prufrock wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:09 pmIt used to be like that but HMRC no longer has preferred status, so the taxman is in the queue with Carr's, the players and everyone else. (Though there are plans to reverse that I think)Harry Genshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:38 pm^ (Pru) that's how I imagined it would be.
In the event of liquidation any assets would just be gobbled up by HMRC wouldn't they? Will Buckley will have to queue up with Carrs, Bolton council and all the ground staff for whatever's left
Re: the PFA I'm speculating, but can't see why, if they would ultimately be in the hook for all the wages, they wouldn't have lent it to the players by now.
Especially as the club/administrators/(Insano's insane idea of a £25million bank account already set up stuffed full of cash with not a credit note in sight) should be paying the fxcking wage.
I'm not sure I agree with that, but assuming it's true, why wouldn't they loan it? They don't *have* to pay it at all, but if their priority is looking after their members then 20 weeks without any pay seems like a good time to step in.
Either way, either the takeover goes through with the players paid in full (and so the PFA get their money back), or the club goes bust, the players get ps in the £, and the PFA ends up paying it anyway. They aren't any worse off loaning it, and the players get some cashflow.
That they haven't seems to suggest strongly to me that they won't be picking up the tab if we go bust.
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Re: Administration and recovery
Worthy4England wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:26 pmApril 2020 they're due to reverse it. At the rate we're going, we might not be complete by then.
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- Lost Leopard Spot
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Re: Administration and recovery
You've obviously never lived through an industrial dispute, union style.Prufrock wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:31 pmIt doesn't make sense to me. I don't think you're saying that the PFA would be legally required to pay the players their wages (in full, or topping up the pennies in the pound they'd get in liquidation). But that a cash rich organisation like the PFA isn't going to let the players end up out of pocket after 6 months of not being paid.Lost Leopard Spot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:21 pmBecause it's a fall back position. Why pay it when you don't have to, why lend it when you don't need to?Prufrock wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:09 pmIt used to be like that but HMRC no longer has preferred status, so the taxman is in the queue with Carr's, the players and everyone else. (Though there are plans to reverse that I think)Harry Genshaw wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 4:38 pm^ (Pru) that's how I imagined it would be.
In the event of liquidation any assets would just be gobbled up by HMRC wouldn't they? Will Buckley will have to queue up with Carrs, Bolton council and all the ground staff for whatever's left
Re: the PFA I'm speculating, but can't see why, if they would ultimately be in the hook for all the wages, they wouldn't have lent it to the players by now.
Especially as the club/administrators/(Insano's insane idea of a £25million bank account already set up stuffed full of cash with not a credit note in sight) should be paying the fxcking wage.
I'm not sure I agree with that, but assuming it's true, why wouldn't they loan it? They don't *have* to pay it at all, but if their priority is looking after their members then 20 weeks without any pay seems like a good time to step in.
Either way, either the takeover goes through with the players paid in full (and so the PFA get their money back), or the club goes bust, the players get ps in the £, and the PFA ends up paying it anyway. They aren't any worse off loaning it, and the players get some cashflow.
That they haven't seems to suggest strongly to me that they won't be picking up the tab if we go bust.
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Re: Administration and recovery
Whatever the legals, there is a strong possibility that the PFA don't wish to set up shop as a lender for unsustainable clubs. Because there's a load of them about.
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Re: Administration and recovery
Wrong.Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:36 pmWhatever the legals, there is a strong possibility that the PFA don't wish to set up shop as a lender for unsustainable clubs. Because there's a load of them about.
How many players in the UK who are members of the PFA have not been paid in the last year?
How many players are in the PFA?
What income does the PFA drag in through membership fees alone?
They aren't a lender of last resort, they are a player union, a significant union, and a guarantor of
standards. And one of those guarantees states that they will cover all reasonable wages unpaid due to circumstances outside a player's control.
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- Lost Leopard Spot
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Re: Administration and recovery
But as I keep saying... Fxck what the players aren't going to not get. The club is going down the toilet because FV don't have the money to buy the club.
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Re: Administration and recovery
I'm really not sure that's right. At least not without "reasonable wages" being a pretty mega caveat.Lost Leopard Spot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:44 pmWrong.Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:36 pmWhatever the legals, there is a strong possibility that the PFA don't wish to set up shop as a lender for unsustainable clubs. Because there's a load of them about.
How many players in the UK who are members of the PFA have not been paid in the last year?
How many players are in the PFA?
What income does the PFA drag in through membership fees alone?
They aren't a lender of last resort, they are a player union, a significant union, and a guarantor of
standards. And one of those guarantees states that they will cover all reasonable wages unpaid due to circumstances outside a player's control.
And while the PFA might do pretty well relatively from membership fees, Man City's wage bill is about £250m per year! No way the PFA are covering that.
And I'm not really sure about the forget the players FV haven't got the money. It's if FV haven't got the money that the players are going to end up f*cked over. (If they do have the money, they'll get paid in full).
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Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.
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Re: Administration and recovery
Does it? I haven't seen that in the PFA membership small print.Lost Leopard Spot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:44 pmWrong.Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:36 pmWhatever the legals, there is a strong possibility that the PFA don't wish to set up shop as a lender for unsustainable clubs. Because there's a load of them about.
How many players in the UK who are members of the PFA have not been paid in the last year?
How many players are in the PFA?
What income does the PFA drag in through membership fees alone?
They aren't a lender of last resort, they are a player union, a significant union, and a guarantor of
standards. And one of those guarantees states that they will cover all reasonable wages unpaid due to circumstances outside a player's control.
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Re: Administration and recovery
I'm not a member. I've been told it's in there.Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:57 pmDoes it? I haven't seen that in the PFA membership small print.Lost Leopard Spot wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:44 pmWrong.Dave Sutton's barnet wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 5:36 pmWhatever the legals, there is a strong possibility that the PFA don't wish to set up shop as a lender for unsustainable clubs. Because there's a load of them about.
How many players in the UK who are members of the PFA have not been paid in the last year?
How many players are in the PFA?
What income does the PFA drag in through membership fees alone?
They aren't a lender of last resort, they are a player union, a significant union, and a guarantor of
standards. And one of those guarantees states that they will cover all reasonable wages unpaid due to circumstances outside a player's control.
That's not a leopard!
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Re: Administration and recovery
I’m sure there’s some boilerplate blather about protecting members’ interests, hardship funds etc and so on. But I’d be willing to bet there’s nothing guaranteeing to cover wages when clubs can’t or won’t pay. As noted, that could be an extraordinary amount of money. They certainly didn’t hurtle forward last time, and it seems they’ve refused this time. Which would strike me as relevant.
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Re: Administration and recovery
It's like being Gorbachev: the Soviet Union is cracking up, and suddenly Poland starts getting stroppy. Whatever the ins and outs of Solidarnosc and their guarantees to the dockworkers of Gdansk, the fxcking place is falling apart. It's not falling apart because of Solidarnosc, nor the Gdansk dockworkers, although their shit workmanship did play a part. No, it's falling apart because Yeltsin has promised to take over from Gorbachev. Unfortunately, Yeltsin is as big, if not a bigger dick than Gorbachev.
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Re: Administration and recovery
Regardless of all the above, we are still left with a buyer who at the moment can't complete. Nixon quoted "not a lot of movement today". This is a process that's driven by the Administrators - not FV. They need to start upping the ante to get to a "shit or get off the pot" moment. The only reason I could see that they're not doing this is that they think completion is not far off or they've fecked up their statements about the ability of FV to fund all of this and are hoping it falls through because the hotel went to a different bidder.
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Re: Administration and recovery
Worthy4England wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:35 pmRegardless of all the above, we are still left with a buyer who at the moment can't complete. Nixon quoted "not a lot of movement today". This is a process that's driven by the Administrators - not FV. They need to start upping the ante to get to a "shit or get off the pot" moment. The only reason I could see that they're not doing this is that they think completion is not far off or they've fecked up their statements about the ability of FV to fund all of this and are hoping it falls through because the hotel went to a different bidder.
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Re: Administration and recovery
They have two options. Sell to FV or move to liquidation. I’d rather they gave the former every single chance.Worthy4England wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 6:35 pmRegardless of all the above, we are still left with a buyer who at the moment can't complete. Nixon quoted "not a lot of movement today". This is a process that's driven by the Administrators - not FV. They need to start upping the ante to get to a "shit or get off the pot" moment. The only reason I could see that they're not doing this is that they think completion is not far off or they've fecked up their statements about the ability of FV to fund all of this and are hoping it falls through because the hotel went to a different bidder.
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Re: Administration and recovery
The PFA has very substantial reserves, certainly enough to pay any outstanding wages owed to our players in full if they choose to, but nowhere near enough to guarantee the unpaid wages of footballers' as a matter of policy, so they won't.
But anyway, it's looking desperate just now, innit? I still believe a takeover can be completed somehow, but my panic-fanny-o-meter reading is rising on a daily basis.
But anyway, it's looking desperate just now, innit? I still believe a takeover can be completed somehow, but my panic-fanny-o-meter reading is rising on a daily basis.
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Re: Administration and recovery
The outstanding wages is 5 months worth for our entire squad last season. That’s a lot. If the PFA were to pay that in full on liquidation they’d set a precedent that as you say could become costly. Gordon Taylor today talked about offering the players loans. The PFA will support players but I strongly suspect not underwrite wages of an entire squad if a club goes pop.nicholaldo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:06 pmThe PFA has very substantial reserves, certainly enough to pay any outstanding wages owed to our players in full if they choose to, but nowhere near enough to guarantee the unpaid wages of footballers' as a matter of policy, so they won't.
But anyway, it's looking desperate just now, innit? I still believe a takeover can be completed somehow, but my panic-fanny-o-meter reading is rising on a daily basis.
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Re: Administration and recovery
BWFC_Insane wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:09 pmThe outstanding wages is 5 months worth for our entire squad last season. That’s a lot. If the PFA were to pay that in full on liquidation they’d set a precedent that as you say could become costly. Gordon Taylor today talked about offering the players loans. The PFA will support players but I strongly suspect not underwrite wages of an entire squad if a club goes pop.nicholaldo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:06 pmThe PFA has very substantial reserves, certainly enough to pay any outstanding wages owed to our players in full if they choose to, but nowhere near enough to guarantee the unpaid wages of footballers' as a matter of policy, so they won't.
But anyway, it's looking desperate just now, innit? I still believe a takeover can be completed somehow, but my panic-fanny-o-meter reading is rising on a daily basis.
Yes, I was agreeing with you. The PFA won't ever guarantee the salary of any player, not least because it's a policy they can't afford to enact.
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Re: Administration and recovery
I can't envisage the hotel turning a profit without the business the football club generates for it (but obviously, I don't know that). And the players would face a huge amount of opprobrium if their demand for immediate payment of outstanding wages in full sent the club under.
No doubt, we're in for more brinkmanship between now and the beginning of the season, but if these are the two remaining obstacles, then surely, when push comes to shove, the only realistic resolution is FV's proposal?
No doubt, we're in for more brinkmanship between now and the beginning of the season, but if these are the two remaining obstacles, then surely, when push comes to shove, the only realistic resolution is FV's proposal?
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