Administration and recovery

Where fellow sufferers gather to share the pain, longing and unrequited transfer requests that make being a Wanderer what it is...

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Lost Leopard Spot
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:03 pm

Harry Genshaw wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:56 pm
This PFA loan. They've not left it resting in Ken's account pending the takeover have they?

7pm tonight
Has anybody told you you're weird Harry? :wink:
This is solicitors we're talking about: you don't think they work at night do you?
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:03 pm

Bruce Rioja wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:02 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:47 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:45 pm
Tomorrow I reckon.
More precision necessary to win the sweepstake!
I'll go with close of play tomorrow, is is that a little ambiguous? ;)
A little. But I'll add it on the spreadsheet.
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Prufrock » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:09 pm

1pm tomorrow (that's to the hour or to the minute :D)
In a world that has decided
That it's going to lose its mind
Be more kind, my friends, try to be more kind.

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:11 pm

So to summarise:
Deal done and dusted announcement.

Harry: Wednesday 19:00
Prufrock: Thursday 13:00
Bruce: close of play Thursday (assuming 17:00)
LLS: Not before Saturday 15:00

Roll up, roll up. T'internet pounds riding on this...
Last edited by Lost Leopard Spot on Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:12 pm

20:00 tonight...

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Lost Leopard Spot
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:14 pm

Harry: Wednesday 19:00
Worthy: Wednesday: 20:00
Prufrock: Thursday 13:00
Bruce: close of play Thursday (assuming 17:00)
LLS: Not before Saturday 15:00
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:14 pm

Come on in Insano, your time is up...
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by TonyDomingos » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:15 pm

15:45 Friday.
Às armas, às armas!
Sobre a terra, sobre o mar,
Às armas, às armas!
Pela Pátria lutar!
Contra os canhões marchar, marchar!

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by officer_dibble » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:17 pm

2am Friday alongside the caraboa cup draw

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Bertie Wooster » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:18 pm

Tomorrow 12.00

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:18 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:14 pm
Come on in Insano, your time is up...
Between 6-9pm tonight put me down for officially.

It wouldn't surprise me though if it was tomorrow morning knowing how this deal has gone. But I'll go with the above.

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by HMX » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:19 pm

Thurs 9am

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by nicholaldo » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:19 pm

BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:49 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:36 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:33 pm


If we do they will be in our squad of 23/4 and take up those spaces. And I do not know this but suspect the EFL will say "No" to that.

The assurance the EFL wanted was that the takeover would be done and a squad of "suitable" players registered. I will make an assumption that means the odd youngster is ok, but half a squad full is not.
I think the general rule though is that there are unlimited changes to that registration until the transfer window shuts. So we could put them in for Sat and then take them out when we make senior signings up to the end of the window.

Not sure how embargo affects that other than needing EFL sign-off but if the options are: we can register enough kids to get a team out Sat pending registration of the queue of others and then take them out; or, Saturday gets postponed, I cannot see them going for the latter.

My feel it in my waters reckon is it'll all go through and announced to start from 1st of the month tomorrow, triggering PFA loan, EFL sign off and then mad rush to sign and register people for Sat.
The embargo restricts you to a squad of 23 or 24 depending on the mood of EFL. They are termed "established players". If an 17 year old is registered as an academy player they are unable to play for first team - if they are then registered for 1st team and appear in a match day squad they become established and count in the 23 and 24. Under embargo you have that as a maximum you cannot "deselect" players because the point of said embargo is financial monitoring. Making sure you aren't spending too much.

We know the EFL can change the rules as they see fit but KA seemingly had a relationship with Shaun Harvey that we can't assume exists between FV and new EFL board.

Regulations 6.1.3 and 6.1.4 state that any club under a registration embargo is permitted up to 24 "Established Players".

An Established Player is then defined in Regulation 6.4.1 as:

"any Player registered with the Championship Club at the time of the imposition of the Embargo, who:

(a) was 21 years of age or older as at the 30 June immediately prior to the commencement of the Season in which the Club is subject to the Embargo; and

(b) has been named in the starting eleven on the Team Sheet (and started the game) at least five times in:

(i) League Matches;

(ii) matches in the EFL Cup, EFL Trophy; and/or

(iii) matches in the Football Association Challenge Cup,

for that Championship Club (at any time)
;"

Regulation 6.4.2 defines an Established Player as:

"any Player registered with the Club whilst subject to the Embargo (excluding Academy Players, Players registered pursuant to Rule 6.1.5, Scholars and any Emergency Goalkeeper Loan) pursuant to this Rule 6."

That, to my mind, reads as meaning Academy players, Scholars, players with a non-first team registration, and Emergency Goalkeeper Loans are exempt from the status of an "Established Player". Even if Academy players and Scholars are required to hold a separate first team registration to play first team football (I don't know whether they are or aren't), they would have to have been named in the starting eleven for the first team in practically anything but a friendly on at least five occasions in order to fall under the definition of an "Established Player".

TL;DR - per the EFL's regulations, we can play the youngsters on Saturday without them being registered, for the purposes of the registration embargo, as "Established Players".

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by BWFC_Insane » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:22 pm

nicholaldo wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:19 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:49 pm
Prufrock wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:36 pm
BWFC_Insane wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:33 pm


If we do they will be in our squad of 23/4 and take up those spaces. And I do not know this but suspect the EFL will say "No" to that.

The assurance the EFL wanted was that the takeover would be done and a squad of "suitable" players registered. I will make an assumption that means the odd youngster is ok, but half a squad full is not.
I think the general rule though is that there are unlimited changes to that registration until the transfer window shuts. So we could put them in for Sat and then take them out when we make senior signings up to the end of the window.

Not sure how embargo affects that other than needing EFL sign-off but if the options are: we can register enough kids to get a team out Sat pending registration of the queue of others and then take them out; or, Saturday gets postponed, I cannot see them going for the latter.

My feel it in my waters reckon is it'll all go through and announced to start from 1st of the month tomorrow, triggering PFA loan, EFL sign off and then mad rush to sign and register people for Sat.
The embargo restricts you to a squad of 23 or 24 depending on the mood of EFL. They are termed "established players". If an 17 year old is registered as an academy player they are unable to play for first team - if they are then registered for 1st team and appear in a match day squad they become established and count in the 23 and 24. Under embargo you have that as a maximum you cannot "deselect" players because the point of said embargo is financial monitoring. Making sure you aren't spending too much.

We know the EFL can change the rules as they see fit but KA seemingly had a relationship with Shaun Harvey that we can't assume exists between FV and new EFL board.

Regulations 6.1.3 and 6.1.4 state that any club under a registration embargo is permitted up to 24 "Established Players".

An Established Player is then defined in Regulation 6.4.1 as:

"any Player registered with the Championship Club at the time of the imposition of the Embargo, who:

(a) was 21 years of age or older as at the 30 June immediately prior to the commencement of the Season in which the Club is subject to the Embargo; and

(b) has been named in the starting eleven on the Team Sheet (and started the game) at least five times in:

(i) League Matches;

(ii) matches in the EFL Cup, EFL Trophy; and/or

(iii) matches in the Football Association Challenge Cup,

for that Championship Club (at any time)
;"

Regulation 6.4.2 defines an Established Player as:

"any Player registered with the Club whilst subject to the Embargo (excluding Academy Players, Players registered pursuant to Rule 6.1.5, Scholars and any Emergency Goalkeeper Loan) pursuant to this Rule 6."

That, to my mind, reads as meaning Academy players, Scholars, players with a non-first team registration, and Emergency Goalkeeper Loans are exempt from the status of an "Established Player". Even if Academy players and Scholars are required to hold a separate first team registration to play first team football (I don't know whether they are or aren't), they would have to have been named in the starting eleven for the first team in practically anything but a friendly on at least five occasions in order to fall under the definition of an "Established Player".

TL;DR - per the EFL's regulations, we can play the youngsters on Saturday without them being registered, for the purposes of the registration embargo, as "Established Players".
Ah thanks - so its 5 games not 1. That's good to know. Couldn't find the established players definition when I had a quick scan before.

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:23 pm

Harry: Wednesday 19:00 (= first dibs 18-20:00 see below)
Insano: officially hesitating between Wednesday 18:00-21:00
Worthy: Wednesday: 20:00
HMX: Thursday 09:00
Bertie Wooster: Thursday 12:00
Prufrock: Thursday 13:00
Bruce: close of play Thursday (assuming 17:00)
Officer Dibble: Friday 02:00
Senor Domingos: Friday 15:45
LLS: Not before Saturday 15:00
Last edited by Lost Leopard Spot on Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by malcd1 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:23 pm

Friday 2pm.
Do not trust atoms. They make up everything.

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Worthy4England » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:24 pm

I have this one all sewn up.

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by malcd1 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:25 pm

Worthy4England wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:24 pm
I have this one all sewn up.
I hope you are right Worthy.
Do not trust atoms. They make up everything.

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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by malcd1 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:25 pm

Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:23 pm
Harry: Wednesday 19:00
Insano: officially hesitating between Wednesday 18:00-21:00
Worthy: Wednesday: 20:00
HMX: Thursday 09:00
Bertie Wooster: Thursday 12:00
Prufrock: Thursday 13:00
Bruce: close of play Thursday (assuming 17:00)
Officer Dibble: Friday 02:00
Malcd: Friday 14:00
Senor Domingos: Friday 15:45
LLS: Not before Saturday 15:00

I've updated it for you LLS.
Do not trust atoms. They make up everything.

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Lost Leopard Spot
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Re: Administration and recovery

Post by Lost Leopard Spot » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:29 pm

malcd1 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:25 pm
Lost Leopard Spot wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:23 pm
Harry: Wednesday 19:00
Insano: officially hesitating between Wednesday 18:00-21:00
Worthy: Wednesday: 20:00
HMX: Thursday 09:00
Bertie Wooster: Thursday 12:00
Prufrock: Thursday 13:00
Bruce: close of play Thursday (assuming 17:00)
Officer Dibble: Friday 02:00
Malcd: Friday 14:00
Senor Domingos: Friday 15:45
LLS: Not before Saturday 15:00

I've updated it for you LLS.
Cheers...
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